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Apple Wow. Banks really are pushing Apple Pay

Discussion in 'GENERAL Wireless Discussion' started by viewfly, Dec 29, 2014.

  1. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    A few TV ads every evening from several banks. And offering discounts. Today I read that Chevron gas stations will take Apple Pay in 2015.

    Banks must really set on the increased security of the system. Never seen such a commercial push for NFC like this before, in the US.

    Really feel that this is going to snowball successfully.

    How Apple worked this deal with banks here is huge. Lots of support from all credit banks.
     
    #1 viewfly, Dec 29, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2014
  2. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    I do wonder what the long term play is here. Even if Apple Pay got 100% saturation in the USA, that is only 50% or so in America of devices.

    Are the banks investing so heavily just for that? TV ads are not cheap.

    Or are the Banks expecting other devices to copy Apple Pay, or is Apple planning to license the Touch ID to others? That would cause a radical change in other phone designs.

    Or is the Apple Smartwatch the independent device that forms the bridge for the hardware independent of the phone brand?

    There has to be some game plan other than Apple taking over the world of smartDevices.


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  3. JFB

    JFB Gold Senior Member
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    I've seen Bank America TV commercial; only those so far.
     
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  4. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    I've seen Well Fargo, Chase, MasterCard and American Express. Also Citi and Capital One.


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  5. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    Naturally I have not seen any commercials, but Wells Fargo keeps sending me emails with reminders that they support Apple Pay. Apparently things are not so rosy in the UK: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/30/uk_banks_fearing_apple_pay_invasion_but_can_nfc_be_stopped, but I'm sure they'll work it through.

    As for why the banks are pushing for Apple Pay — doesn't the use of Apple Pay shift the liability for fraudulent payments away from the banks? With the total amount of CC fraud in the US (2012 data) at ~$1.5B that sounds pretty enticing to me.
     
  6. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    I never read of the liability shifting away from banks (I think you mean CC's). Certainly not to Apple or the local store. That would never fly. If a Visa card has many forms of use (telephone, online, mag swipe and Apple Pay, the fraudulent terms should be the same.

    Do you read that somewhere?

    But certainly the motivation is to solve the $1.5B loss somehow, so a more secure system is the answer they are looking for.

    I think there is only serious roll out in the US so far. The UK banks objection seems more around Apple getting into banking, as opposed to security. I think Visa, Barcaly MC, AMEX will force Apple Pay on anyone that wishes to use their cards...again to reduce fraud.


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  7. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    No, I didn't read that anywhere and I didn't mean liability shift globally. What I mean is that you wouldn't be able to make a $1000 charge using Apple Pay and then claim it wasn't you and ask for your money back the way you could do with a credit card.

    Yes, the UK is concerned with privacy/Apple access to financial data, they're not doubting the security of the system AFAIK. They're less susceptible to CC fraud due to the prevalence of Chip & PIN cards though so for them switching to Apple Pay is less of a security gain than for the US banks.
     
  8. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Yeah, I'm sure that the CC'd and Banks are hoping that those kind of frauds are closed, and the more prevalent ones, where a card is stolen. Regardless, they will have to have the same policy, but will investigate further.

    Given that Europe still accepts magnetic swipe cards, this would be more secure for them (from visitors). I don't know, but I think NFC is already in place overseas, so taking Apple pay should be easy, from what I read.

    I think, as you said, it will smooth out. Since UK banks already use MC, Visa and Amex (plus Barclay, etc), information is shared already with those organizations. It is not clear to me how Apple is an intrusion. Or much more than already occurs.

    Back into the topic, with the unprecedented support from Banks and CC, I think Apple will become another tool to use one' CC, along with what already can be done (mag swipe, Chip and Pin)


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  9. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    The acceptance of mag stripe in Europe declines every year. You're right, NFC (or a similar technology) is widely available, but it's built into a lot of European credit cards, so it's a tougher market to penetrate.
    It's not clear to me either and the article didn't elaborate, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
    Yes, it will be another tool, the interesting thing is how quickly it'll increase its share.
     
  10. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    I think that any store NFC reader in place already works with Apple Pay, so intrusion will be easy. CVS had to shut out google and NFC entirely to turn off Apple Pay.

    Looking at the comments in your link, a Brit has already used it in the UK from a iPhone he purchased stateside. But a limit was set up.

    "Works very well.
    I'm back in blighty (England) for a while having lived the last few years stateside and when I picked up an iPhone 6 here it noticed that the card on file with iTunes was a Wells Fargo one and would I like to add it. I then had to log into the Wells Fargo online banking and confirm that I did indeed want to grant iTunes the ability to use this card for iPay and it was all done in about 10 mins.

    ( Found it) Works very well over here (UK) (Greggs, Boots, Sainsburys...anywhere that the NFC contactless payments thing is shown it would seem). The killer for it will be the 20quid limit they arbitrarily set. Stateside I can wander into BestBuy and spend as much money as I have with the phone, I find the limit somewhat curious and pointless (although I assume it's rooted in the banks not wanting to let anyone in on those juicy high value transactions (or a percentage thereof))."

    Seems to be a lot of misunderstanding on Apple Pay still.

    I think it's going to be a big hit.
     
    #10 viewfly, Dec 31, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2014
  11. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    This article in the UK Telegraph expands on the previous link.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...K-banks-in-talks-over-Apple-wave-and-pay.html

    Regarding progress:

     
  12. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    You're right that if they jump whatever hurdles the banks are throwing at them there integration will be easy. What I meant by "tougher market to penetrate" was that because they already have two secure payment systems in place (Chip & PIN, NFC) available on their credit cards there's not quite the same urgency to let in another NFC player as there is stateside, where the archaic magstripe is still predominant. In other words, US CC issuing banks are more interested in pushing this through than their European counterparts. Disclaimer: this is just my take on it, or to call it less glamorously -- speculation :)
     
  13. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Yes, I understand your meaning. The hook may be online, telephone and mail order transactions. Apparently the Chip n Pin has almost solved fraud in the store, but; outside of the store, fraud is 50% (in 2009) of the problem.

    Using Apple pay from your Touch ID phone or iPad. remotely, would be very attractive to minimize that kind of fraud, even in Europe, UK where CnP or EMV is prevalent. I don't know of any secure solution with Chip and Pin where the person is too far away to use a key entry. I had a smart reader years ago with AMEX, but that was tied to my computer. Mobile device shopping is very popular and growing.

    So that may be the hook. Plus even with UK banks, most do issue CC under the big 4 brands: Amex, MC, Visa, Barclay, so I think the pressure will be on to 'not be left out'.

    And even though this year, finally, Chip and Signature is finally being forced on US customers...many travel overseas and that is a big trade still. Most vendors still take mag stripe in stores and restaurants today.

    All very interesting, especially if the Apple iWatch allows Touch ID to link to 3rd party systems.


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  14. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    Yes, their solution for securing online transactions for Chip & PIN cards is not very convenient. I think they use SMS to deliver a one-time use code and they use your phone number on file, but perhaps not everyone is doing it. What's Apple Pay's online mode of operation?
     
  15. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Within the store's App, one selects Apple Pay and then you use your fingerprint to approve the purchase. So you never type in your CC info in a web page.

    https://www.apple.com/apple-pay/
     

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