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Verizon is the best because...........

Discussion in 'GENERAL Wireless Discussion' started by Simon5282, Dec 13, 2007.

  1. Jay2TheRescue

    Jay2TheRescue Resident Spamslayer
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    Each standard has its own strengths & weaknesses. I personally feel the freedom that GSM carriers give their subscribers the freedom to use any phone compatible with the network, and the ease of switching phones with out loosing contact information is a winner. Then add on top of that the GSM carriers do not cripple features like Bluetooth, I'm sold.

    Some have mentioned call quality and GSM's hard handoffs as negatives, yet I am very pleased with the call quality I have with my GSM phones, and having had GSM service for many years now I have almost never had handoff issues. I can remember only once that I had handoff issues specifically, and that was while roaming in the mountains on another carrier's network far from home. I'm sure the terrain and the fact that it wasn't my home network added to my handoff issues.

    This is my own personal opinion, and anyone else is welcome to agree or disagree with me. That is their choice.

    -Jay
     
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  2. RadioFoneGuy

    RadioFoneGuy Powered by HTC FUZE
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    Ahh true but WCDMA does incorporate some GSM fundamentals and EVDO and GSM share something (borrowing from TDMA).

    CDMA on paper is better, but GSM has had more field testing and more handset choices and support.

    Hard handoff is fine by me it either works or doesnt and is capable of easily integrating multiple band handoffs and handoff to other carriers and markets.

    CDMA also is bogged down by Qualcomm patents and its more involved to change a hand set and requires more dealing with tech support or CS. Give me a dual band GSM phone and a SIM card and I am good.

    One advantage to CDMA versus GSM is for Tech savvy folks like us that want test mode, most CDMA phones seem to have either a De-Bug mode or field test, where as on GSM the test mode is no longer in the chip set like TDMA was. So you have to reflash the bios or load 3rd party software on a symbian base phone.
     
  3. kashkanantambu

    kashkanantambu Junior Member
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    If we're comparing the technology, IMO CDMA has the edge, no pun intended. But if we are talking about accessories, and service, and options and market share, then I will agree that GSM is the leader.

    That's my 2 cents......added to the rest of the change I put in earlier...lol:D
     
  4. strunke

    strunke .:|Always Covered|:.
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    True, true....GSM is definitely more seasoned and more supported. Speaking of which I drove through your territory two days ago.....didn't test the cdma v. gsm this time though....
     
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  5. scotsboyuk

    scotsboyuk Senior Member
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    What you say is true, but the size of a country alone doesn't necessarily make it viable to cover the entire geographic area (exceptions being very small countries like Luxembourg, Andorra, etc). A country like Norway is far smaller than the U.S., but it is relatively sparsely populated in some areas and has some rather harsh terrain, which means that complete geographic coverage probably isn't economically viable.

    Switzerland may not have been the best example for me to give I suppose given that it is a popular tourist destination and thus some of the mountains will be covered to accommodate tourists.

    Your general point does stand though.
     
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  6. KyleAndMelissa22

    KyleAndMelissa22 Woot Woot, Splat !!!
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    My opinion is that 800 mhz is better than 1900 mhz, because of better coverage through buildings,
    and 800 mhz waves usually travel farther.

    Alltel & Verizon are the 800 mhz carriers in my area. USCC has 800 mhz coverage in Western NC.
    Sprint, AT&T & SunCom (future T-mobile) are 1900 mhz over here.

    and I'm a big fan of soft handoff,
    especially being connected to more than 1 tower for a call.

    in my opinion, CDMA technology is the best in rural areas (like the Carolinas) for their ability to soft handoff.
    GSM carriers have to build many very tall towers over here to cover this rural area.
     
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  7. RadioFoneGuy

    RadioFoneGuy Powered by HTC FUZE
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    Let me know the next time your thru my area so I can turn them all off. You cant hear buzzing if its not on lol. If you ever want a tour let me know.
     
  8. RadioFoneGuy

    RadioFoneGuy Powered by HTC FUZE
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    Image009.jpg

    heres an example of a CDMA cabinet that cannot be upgraded, so when the CDMA carriers go
    4G they will have to put either a brand new WiMax or LTE cabinet side by side with the old CDMA so the transition is smooth. By the way this has a GSM cabinet behind it.

    This is a CDMAOne cabinet that has analog, the left side is analog the right is digital.
     
  9. larry

    larry Sprint loyalist and former mod
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    I believe the only two carriers that have towers in Mojave proper are T-Mobile and Nextel. The Nextel tower is going to be getting CDMA for Sprint very soon. I travel through there about twice a year so it will be nice to have better native service.
     
  10. strunke

    strunke .:|Always Covered|:.
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    Haha, okay. I think the buzzing is fun myself. Some news programs will have it start up during an interview and I know exactly what it is. But really GSM is fine, it's a good technology. I just think CDMA is a little better. It was developed after GSM so it's only natural. Though the fundamentals are world war two-esque in cdma it was really developed after gsm. I just can't wait for the GSM carriers to go all the way wcdma.....might consider switching my primary line if centennial/t-mobile were to start offering 3g and as good a rate plan.....but right now, here in west michigan, cdma is the way to go. Of course...if I switched then I would have a void in my heart from the lack of alltel "love". :lmao:
     
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  11. RadioFoneGuy

    RadioFoneGuy Powered by HTC FUZE
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    The buzzing is only really noticeable if you are near any electronics like a TV, stereo or computer screen. You should never hear the buzz on a voice call unless you recieve another call and the mobile is near an elecronic device reasononing is the mobile is recieving a signal from the tower that is just signaling and not using one of the compression Codecs.

    I hardly ever hear a buzz unless I put my phone in one of my cup holders and the stereo is blasting.

    Speaking of CDMA I read some where that is was first devoloped by the US Army Signal Corp in which I spent 8 years. We had something I believe was FDMA running at 88MHZ which was good for 20 miles which was encrypted but the phones where vehicle mounted, tethered to a 80 pound radio and the audio was aweful. There were no handoffs you had to re-initialize a call.
    This was a system created by ITT and GTE, I got my training from GTE.

    You say Alltel and it made me think, If Alltel wouldnt have bought CenturyTel when they did that area would have been GSM.
     
  12. Jay2TheRescue

    Jay2TheRescue Resident Spamslayer
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    I like the buzzing too. It gives me an extra second or 2 to find my phone before it starts ringing. The radio in my antique Buick is especially sensitive to the phone ringing. The FM amplifier is going out on it and it can only pull in a station if its within 15 or 20 miles, but let a phone ring and that thing starts buzzing like crazy!

    -Jay
     
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  13. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    To me the spectral efficiency advantage and the soft handoffs that Qualcomm's CDMA provides over GSM, is not a significant advantage to make up for the difference in the other areas where GSM excels, such as freedom of phone choice, and world roaming. However, the sound quality is very debatable. Sometimes one sounds better than the other, but that depends on too many variables. They're both very close when it comes to spectral efficiency and the hard handoffs are not a problem at all, just like CDMA's "cell breathing" effect is not much of a problem. Coverage depends on other factors. You don't have to build more towers just because it is GSM, its because of other reasons. If that was true, then we would see AT&T removing towers as they move to WCDMA. However, they are installing more towers instead. If in your area a GSM carrier has more towers than a CDMA carrier, then it's probably because the GSM carrier has more subscribers in that area. I've seen other places where the opposite is true.

    The real advantages/disadvantages are not caused by the technologies, but by the carriers themselves. CDMA carriers in the US could've embraced RUIM cards, but they chose not to. They could've allowed Bluetooth to do more than just connect your headset, but they chose not to. They could've allowed people the freedom to transfer ringtones and graphics to the phones, but they chose not to. They could've allowed people to bring in their own phones, but they chose not to (although they are slowly improving on this). It is this closed mentality that American CDMA carriers have that has always kept me away from CDMA.
     
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  14. RadioFoneGuy

    RadioFoneGuy Powered by HTC FUZE
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    some very good points, well said. I respect your opinion but disagree on the cell breathing or cell shrinkage as i call it is an aspect that I dont like.

    Remember Seinfeld when Kostanza got caught naked after getting out of pool- Shrinkage is not your friend. If you buy a car stereo that claims it pushes 50 watts off power you are going to want your stereo to give you full power and not fluctuate. I would rather have a blocked call and get the network busy message on my phone over cutting back power so less people get on a tower so the tower doesnt block calls.

    on the CDMA bluetooth issue, My mom has Alltel and her bluetooth works fine and she connects the Moto Razr to her car no prob.
     
  15. TelcomJunkie

    TelcomJunkie Bad Handoff Investigator
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    I find it funny that people are saying GSM or CDMA is better and the points they are using are directed at the carriers implentation of the technology versus the technology itself.
     
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  16. Jay2TheRescue

    Jay2TheRescue Resident Spamslayer
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    Alltel does not restrict the BT functions, but Verizon and Sprint do. If I were to sign up for CDMA service it would be with Alltel.

    -Jay
     
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  17. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    ....oh and I forgot one thing: both Sprint and Verizon used to charge a fee just to get your ESN swapped. Just one more way to restrict people from changing phones. I mean, how retarded is that? All these little things in my mind cause that when I think of a CDMA carrier, all I can think of is the word "restrictions". If I pay my bill on time, I shouldn't have to be submitted to a regime.
     
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  18. Andy

    Andy Diamond Senior Member
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    Umm.....I can't say that I agree with this comment...
     
  19. larry

    larry Sprint loyalist and former mod
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    I rarely if ever see any effects of the so called CDMA cell breathing. A number of years back this might have been a minor problem but not anymore. At least I haven't seen any evidence of it with today's well built out systems.
     
  20. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    I would suggest that Verizon made the Best business decision to hitch their wagon to the 4G migration path of the GSM standard. That secures their investors (including part owner Vodafone) and employees a growing future in the worldwide wireless market. I don't know if this will cost them a lot of money to migrate (like it did for ATT) or will it cost even current GSM provider lots of money too?

    In good reception areas, to the average consumer the audio quality difference is marginal, and the reception area will only get better. It is more about standards than technology.

    A small flat country like the Netherlands is completely covered, by 3 GSM carriers I think. They compete on price and service packages, etc... Most likely the future for the USA too.

    My humble opinion,
     
    #80 viewfly, Dec 19, 2007
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2007
  21. RJB

    RJB Gold Senior Member
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    Honestly we can be like a bunch of old western cowboys and throw our cow pies into the fire to see who gets a bigger flame. What it comes down to all these things GSM or CDMA that are spoken of are honestly not any more impressive than the other. They all have their good things and just like Telecom Junkie said we need to focus on the actual technology and not just what one carrier does and the other does not.
     
  22. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Err, the OP was about the carrier Verizon, it corporate policies, decisions, etc that affect consumer satisfaction and thereby it's wireless business compared to other carriers, not the technology details of CDMA, I think.
     
  23. RJB

    RJB Gold Senior Member
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    Why not be well rounded on some of these topics so the OP can see all sides.
     
  24. RadioFoneGuy

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    your not going to experience as big a different in a suburban or metro environment were you have multiple tower coverage and the towers are closer together. I am speaking from a rural standpoint or when you get over 3 miles from a tower in hilly country.

    I have tested this on a tower that is near my house that has both a 850 GSM carrier Dobson and a 850 CDMA carrier. Both carrier are on the same tower and are close to the same height on the tower. Both companies in this test were using 1 5/8 antenna lines with 3 foot panel antennas. Both companies sectors had the same azimuth of 240 in Sector 3 (gamma)

    I had two field test mode one GSM and one CDMA, I know for fact that both systems are averaging the same output power at the base station. I made a few tests thru out the day the best time of the day for the CDMA was between 10 pm and 8 am which is to be expected. I noticed declines at the 8 am to 10 am and of course 5-6 pm but the most notable was from 7 pm to 10 pm which I would imaging is when most can use night and weekend minutes.

    Outside of these traffic peaks the phone had good RSSI of -84 db or better and EC/IO levels were pretty respectable as well and I was able to track 4 PN with this tower in question being the priority. ON peak times the PN dipped into the -105 level and only 2 PN were displayed and EC levels were pretty diminished as well. I was able to make a few tested calls to a movie hotline and dropped 3 out of 10 calls with choppy audio.

    ON the other hand the GSM Control channel averages -75 and will dip to -95 during a call when the tower is utilizing auto power control which is the tower tell the handset to cut back power based on recieved levels to save the handsets battery life.

    Not trying to promote or slander either technology this is just an example of an experiment.

    Both test phones were Nokias, the CDMA Nokia was a cheaper model but had the extending antenna which on the test phone didnt seem to help much when extended.

    My 2 bits.
     
  25. RadioFoneGuy

    RadioFoneGuy Powered by HTC FUZE
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    Side note-- I didnt mention it but the CDMA carrier was Alltel using F1 and F2 at the time pre EVDO.

    The picture of the old Moto CMDAone cabinet i posted actually put out almost 15 more watts than the current system Alltel and Verizon are running, those old things had a pretty good coverage footprint. One drawback is no data and this model couldnt support SMS.
     
  26. Simon5282

    Simon5282 Senior Member
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    What does OP mean?
     
  27. Gman

    Gman Senior Member
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    Original Poster, the originator of the thread
     
  28. Simon5282

    Simon5282 Senior Member
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    The purpose of the OP (ME) had absolutely nothing to do with Verizon. It was to call out an ignorant statement made by an idiot, who has never came back to this place. In fact, I almost put it in the roaming zone. If there was a flame zone, this is where it would have gone.

    I am indifferent about Verizon, or any other carrier in the US. To me, they all have their strengths and weakness. It is impossible to say one carrier, or technology is better or worse.

    However, I love the way this thread has gone, and I am having fun with it, and I have learned a couple things in the process.
     
  29. M in LA

    M in LA Mobile 28 Years Plus
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    Office of Parliament, Official Principal, Ocean Pacific Sunwear...;)

    Or as Gman said, "Original Poster".
     
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  30. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    I'm just agreeing with Verizon's published business decision to provide 4G based on the GSM world's migration path (which is not really the GSM used today, just as 3G GSM is not either)

    As Verizon says, 'It's the Network'.
    I imagine that in the future when they switch over or provide 4G service, its network and support will be quite good.

    More info on the predicted change over:

    Nov 29, 2007, Information Week

    Verizon (NYSE: VZ) Wireless officially dropped another bomb this week. Though the move was widely speculated about several months ago after a Vodafone (NYSE: VOD) executive made some comments about the two companies' plans, Verizon made it official this morning. CDMA and its 4G derivative UWB are out. Long Term Evolution is in. Dose this mean CDMA is dead?

    This is another huge move for Verizon. Hot on the heals of its announcement that it will allow non-Verizon handsets to be activated on its network, it has now sided with its European partner in choosing the next generation of wireless technology it will use. The choice will open up a wide range of possibilities for Verizon Wireless and its customers.

    Verizon Wireless, which is a joint venture between U.S.-based Verizon Communications and U.K.-based Vodafone, has used Qualcomm-developed technology for years. CDMA has been the bedrock of its wireless systems. CDMA, however, is not compatible with the GSM/HSPA systems used in Europe and other countries. Though Verizon does offer several hybrid handsets that have both technologies on board, like the BlackBerry 8800 World Edition, the bulk of its handsets work only on CDMA networks and are useless over in Europe. Customers interested in easier roaming between the U.S. and Europe have typically chosen AT&T or T-Mobile, because their GSM-based networks are compatible with those over in Europe. That has given AT&T and T-Mobile a little bit of an EDGE (pun intended).

    By choosing LTE, Verizon Wireless is leveling the playing field in that respect. Many European carriers are siding with LTE, and Vodafone has a presence in many of the largest markets there. This will make the systems compatible and Verizon customers will be able to roam between the U.S. and other countries with fewer headaches.

    What this all spells for the future of CDMA is another big question. Sprint (NYSE: S), Alltel (NYSE: AT) and Verizon have been the big CDMA users in the U.S. Sprint picked WiMAX as its 4G technology. Sprint has not said that it will halt its CDMA network any time soon, but by using WiMAX, it has foregone CDMA's 4G evolution Ultra Wide Band. For Verizon to also pick a non-CDMA based 4G alternative does not bode well for Qualcomm and its technologies.

    Even so, having fully operation LTE systems in place is not going to happen over night. In fact, it is years from a reality, so Verizon will continue to operate its CDMA network for quite some time. Then it will be faced with the messy business of transitioning from one technology to the other. But that's another headache for another day.

    From Verizon Wireless Picks LTE With Vodafone For 4G Technology - Mobile Blog - InformationWeek
     

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