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Timely Android Updates Not Happening

Discussion in 'T-Mobile Forum' started by BradQue, May 13, 2012.

  1. BradQue

    BradQue Senior Member
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    I have TMobile Sidekick 4g's, 2 of them. In the year I've had them, several new versions of Android have come out yet TMobile, and or Samsung, have not seen fit to push updates to these phones which are currently using version 2.2.1.

    This seems sort of like abandonment to me, forgetting about caring for existing customers. Is there some sort of update schedule that anyone may be aware of that TMobile may have somewhere?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    Welcome to android. Take a number
     
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  3. RadioRaiders

    RadioRaiders RF Black-Belt
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    Yea, don't hold your breath waiting for any updates. Android needs to be re-built specifically for each phones hardware, and mfgs/carriers seem to think a 1-year old phone is already outdated and don't bother to spend time updating it.

    I'd like to eventually see some common hardware used/shared by phone mfgs in the future so that Android can easily be installed/upgraded easily accross the board, same as how you can install Windows/Linux on pretty much any store-bought computer. But it's not at that point yet.

    ...as for a list, I don't know. I do know Motorola lists updates on their website:
    https://forums.motorola.com/pages/00add97d6c
     
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  4. Eileen89

    Eileen89 Bronze Senior Member
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    This is one of my biggest reasons for not going with Android. People can say what they want about Apple as far as being "locked down", ect... However, when it comes to iOS updates Apple is spot on and makes sure that every one of their devices that is capable of running the updates efficiently gets them.


    Sent from my iPad 4G using Tapatalk HD.
     
  5. RadioRaiders

    RadioRaiders RF Black-Belt
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    Apple is one company with essentially one phone, so of course it's alot easier for them to roll out updates. With Android there's a huge selection of different phones available, and one of the downsides of having that variety is lack of updates. Altho older versions of Android don't necessarily mean anything is wrong with them. Personally, I have Android 2.2.2 on my phone and I'm fine with it.
     
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  6. Eileen89

    Eileen89 Bronze Senior Member
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    Sorry, but I hear this a lot and to be honest this argument does get a tad bit old after a while. Fact is, there isn't just "one" iPhone anymore, there are 3 currently that are still being sold today; 3GS, 4, and the 4S. Also, when Apple puts out a software update, they make it available to older models that can support it as well. The same can't be said for Android. Many Android devices that were sold only just last year will never see ICS, even though it has been out for some time now and JB is currently in testing and should be out soon. IMHO, I don't think everyone has to upgrade especially in cases like yours where there devices are running good. Heck, even I skipped the last 2 iOS updates in favor of keeping my jailbreak. However, I do believe that updates should still be available to all Android devices that are capable of running the latest OS should a person just want to have it on their device.... That being said, I am not trying to get into a "Android is better that Apple debate or Apple is better than Android, I simply wanted to point out that it shouldn't matter how many devices Android has when the truth of the matter is, we both know that it doesn't matter, ICS has been out long enough now to the point where it should be available to all Android devices that can run it without issues.....


    Sent from my iPad 4G using Tapatalk HD.
     
  7. charlyee

    charlyee Ultimate Insanity
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    Unfortunately in Androids, the different manufacturers put different priorities on their devices. I was fortunate with Atrix and the Vivid. Samsung is known for dragging their feet in updates. One other complexity is how much carrier customization is in the androids, compared to none in IOS and very minimal in WP7. The updates come from the provider on the Androids and thus yet another reason for the delays.

    I guess the openness of the Android contributes to its negatives as well. :)

    Sent from my Lumia 900 using Board Express
     
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  8. RadioRaiders

    RadioRaiders RF Black-Belt
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    I think just about everyone would like that, but it's not up to me, you or Android, it's up to the phone mfgs and carriers. And they seem to focus on newer models. I think if you buy an Android phone, you need to look at the version of software and accept the fact that it may stay on that release forever.

    It's also not just phones, but pretty much any software. My Samsung TV is about 3 years old, and is running a software released in 2010. It has a USB slot, but isn't capable to play Divx or to record TV to it, while this is supported by all newer Samsung TV's. I suppose a software update would be able to enable it on my TV, but Samsung isn't going to spend time and money upgrading TV's that are 3 years old. This kind of applies for most electronics: TV's, phones, etc.. Does Apple still release iOS5 (or whatever the newest is) for their original iPhone? Or models that are 3 years old? If they do, that's great, but most companies don't.


    JailBreak isn't tested and supported by Apple, is it? :confused: I thought it's some kind of hacked software to bypass restrictions set by Apple in the official release? :headscrat If this is correct, then you are waiting on hackers to provide you your newest software, not Apple.
     
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  9. Eileen89

    Eileen89 Bronze Senior Member
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    Charlyee, you bring up a valid point here and one that I tent to forget about. Android devices with the exception of Googles Nexus, also rely on the manufacturer and I think the wireless carrier as well.


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk.
     
  10. Eileen89

    Eileen89 Bronze Senior Member
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    I hate to admit this, but I didn't know TV's got software updates. Oh me gosh, my 23 year old RCA TV that I still have must be about 15 - 20 updates behind, lol. :D




    Hehe, no, JB definetlly isn't supported by Apple and never will be. When I said I didn't update, I meant to Apples iOS updates, as doing those would undue my jailbreak. I think one of the reasons why Apple has so many small updates is to remove the jailbreak for those who accidentally do the update. I did it once never again.....


    Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk.
     
  11. RadioRaiders

    RadioRaiders RF Black-Belt
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    I know game consoles like Wii also have hacked firmware (illegally available) that allow you to download games from the internet. If you have a hacked Wii and download an official update, the update can brick your Wii. So yea, you always need to be wary of official updates to devices running hacked software.

    PS- If your TV is 25 years old, forget about the software, it's time for a hardware upgrade :p:D
     
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  12. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Apple has continually made the decision, based on mistakes decades ago, that the best product is one that they have control over regarding OS. Planning at the design stage means that Apple will give timely updates to their products and not rely on carriers to 'customize' the OS...which can lead to sour consumer experiences.

    Android is messed up regarding the topic of this thread, because they have pursued a different path, similar to Microsoft. At one time, when I had no Macs, and 3 laptops and 1 desktop by different mgfr's, updating to the latest MS was similarly painful. I had to go to Dell, Toshiba, IBM to get specific drivers before doing the updates...a real pain in the butt, and something that is foreign to the Apple user.

    So now the Android experience is soured because the unlucky fellow/girl that buys a Android that has no forward path, is really annoyed and feels like it was a waste of money.

    This is one of the many reasons that I go with Apple products only now. It eases my 'IT hat', and it just a much better OS.

    P.S. Looks like I be getting my 4S officially unlocked in a few weeks!
     
  13. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    ICS (and other Android OS versions) is available as the source code, released by Google who owns the OS. The reason you keep hearing this argument over and over is that to go from the source code to a binary compatible with your particular model you need manufacturer's involvement, and if they don't see a reason to do it you're SOL. That happens a lot unfortunately, not just with phones. I have to keep a copy of Windows XP or buy a new scanner since Canon decided not to release a driver for Windows 7. There's ton of examples like that.
     
  14. RadioRaiders

    RadioRaiders RF Black-Belt
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    Today Windows (and Linux) installs on any PC with basically no problems. But your comparison is valid, Android is still relatively new, and in kind of at that "Windows 95" stage right now (well, maybe not THAT bad :p) in terms of drivers, etc . Hopefully in a few years time, it will get smoothed out and hardware will be standardized in a way to make Android updates fast and easy, same like Windows/Linux is for PC's today.


    ...personally, I prefer Linux on my PC's because of the openness and freedom of things you can do with it, which is why I never bought an Apple product, but to each his own ;)
     
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  15. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    I did recently get an 'lab' computer with Windows 7, and it is a much better product, although the hardware maybe is not.

    Apple had solved all these painful upgrade hardware issues for the most part some time ago. Amazing that Microsoft is finally catching up! ;)

    If it wasn't for the competitive edge of Apple, one wonder whether MS would have any incentive to change.

    I'd say for 98% of Windows or Android uses they don' t really make any use of the ' openness and freedom of things'. Instead those 98% get a bad user experience, which is not the right marketing image to have.

    And like any OS, if you have the smarts and the developer tools, you can mess around with iOS to your hearts content. Hence the JB'ers that Irish Rose makes use of. Now that is a stale argument (that you can't do anything with iOS)...just learn iOS and get all the freedom you want! Granted,there are some software tools to purchase, but the main hurdle is to learn the development iOS...but that is true with all OS's.
     
  16. RadioRaiders

    RadioRaiders RF Black-Belt
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    I seriously doubt 98% of Android users are having a bad experience :rolleyes: ...and who said Windows had "openness" about it? :headscrat Windows is as closed as Apple, in my eyes, which is why I said I prefer Linux on PC's.
     
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  17. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    Not that foreign if you're interested in the latest Java.
     
  18. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    Learning iOS development is more difficult than say Android (haven't looked at Windows stuff in ages, but in my recollection the MS Dev tools were the best). The Xcode is probably the worst development tool I've ever used, for Android you get a selection of really good dev tools: IntelliJ, Eclipse and even Netbeans (OK, the last may not be that great, but it still beats Xcode).
     
  19. RadioRaiders

    RadioRaiders RF Black-Belt
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    That's funny, I also have a "CanoScan LiDE 30" that I have been fighting to find a driver for.

    There's no Linux driver's (at least on the Canon website), and there's no support for drivers after Win XP. And the latest Apple version supported is "OS X v10.4 Tiger", so it looks like upgrading software for old devices is an across the board thing.

    Canon U.S.A. : Support & Drivers : CanoScan LiDE 30
     
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  20. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Err, the argument for Mac vs PC is often based on just that, and the reason why some wouldn't even consider the first iPhone was the same 'closed garden' bias. Where have you been?:confused:

    It's not that hard or user unfriendly. Apparently many are capable to do it...re all the iOS apps in the market, far greater than the competitors.
     
  21. RadioRaiders

    RadioRaiders RF Black-Belt
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    :confused:
    I wrote an app for Symbian, Blackberry and Android, and the experience with Android was by far the easiest, not just programming, but getting the app to market. You just pay $20 for a license and you can have the app in the market the same day. BlackBerry and Symbian were also easy to program for, but BlackBerry had more restrictions about getting an app to market. Altho easy to OTA. I put my app on my website, and anyone with a BlackBerry can link to it and download it. Symbian had several ways to code, python was extremely easy, but it was nearly impossible to get an app in the market. Too many fees, restrictions, source-code submission, etc. it made it extremely hard for a "small" person like me to get anything in Ovi (larger companies will jump thru hoops and pay large fees). Apple obviously has a huge number of programmers, because the iPhone is huge, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's easy to program for or get an app to market.
     
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  22. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    My point was that it is very doable to program iOS. Whether it is easy or hard for you, that depends on talent.

    But saying that you have a fixed system is invalid, as the JB's groups have demonstrated. It is your device and you can fool with it as you like. You just need to learn how to do it, which is true in all cases.
     
  23. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    That depends not only on talent. First, almost every modern software engineer knows Java, which is used in a variety of applications, including Android. While it is definitely possible to learn Objective C, it is not nearly as wide-spread. Second, to write programs for Android you need to have Windows, Linux or Mac OS. In order to write programs for iOS you need to have Mac OS. You can run Linux on almost any hardware, but you pretty much need a Mac to run Mac OS. Mac hardware is much more expensive than comparably performing hardware running Linux. Linux is free, Mac OS is not. If you spent the last ten years working in Eclipse or IntelliJ you will be able to write programs in Android in two hours. Android SDK comes bundled with unit & functional testing frameworks, iOS SDK does not.

    Does learning a new language depend on talent? Sure. Does it depend on talent only? No, it also depends on how good the learning tools are and how much of what you already know can help you in learning.
     
  24. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Meh. You're using the argument that Macs are more expensive than PC's to counter my point that you can openly program an iOS or Mac device, if you wish too (like thousands have already)?

    To program, you need the right tools (software and hardware). Sure, no disagreement here.

    But if you are willing to step up to the plate, you just get what you need to do the job.

    Is the argument that programming iOS is too hard technically? I thought Apple's products were for the non-technie types :D Sure the product is and you can have a very fun time, technically, writing good apps. That appeals to lots of highly technical people.

    A lot of people like solving these things, and get rewarded writing software apps.
     
  25. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    No, I was countering your point that programming on iOS is only limited by your talent. I was pointing out that there are objective reasons why programming for one device may be more accessible and easier than for the other. Basically I'm saying that learning to program for Android is akin to learning to drive a car while learning to program for iOS is akin to learning to fly a Sessna. Sure, flying a Sessna may be more fun than driving a car, but it's by no means as easy or accessible.
     
  26. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    That is Cessna with a 'C', not 'S'.

    Okay, I get your argument that Android is easy for the average guy to program or 'mess' around with and that iOS is more technology challenging, and perhaps not for the 'average' guy.

    My point is that iOS is not locked down by Apple to be inaccessable to a tech savvy person (with a Mac). There is not a master key that prevents the amateur from playing around with iOS.

    Apple makes available the software tools and help to anyone interested and there are plenty of lay person and professional books available.

    You can write an App and never submit it to the App store...just use it on your personal iPhone, or post it on the JB's forums. That is my point...it is open if you have the interest. It is certainly one of my retirement project ideas.

    Nine-year-old boy writes popular iPhone app | Macworld

    http://developer.apple.com/library/...ogrammingGuide/Introduction/Introduction.html
     
  27. RadioRaiders

    RadioRaiders RF Black-Belt
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    I think if you try hard enough, you can do almost anything with any software platform. It's the ease of use that's key. For example, in Linux I can write a script to check my IP address, then put it in a cron-job to run every 5 minutes, and if my IP address changes it will send me an e-mail informing me of the change. It's very easy, because these things are built into the Linux system.

    If I want to do the same thing in Windows, I can, but I'll have to write and compile an .exe file which will probably take 10x longer and skill in C or whatever programming language. And then if I wanted to change the time from 5 min to 10 min, I'd have to change the source code and recompile it, which is usually a pain and time consuming. In Linux I just edit one line and I'm done. So "openness" isn't just about what you can and can't do, but also how quick and easy it can be done.

    BTW none of this has anything to do with the original topic of Android updates, but whatever...
     
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  28. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Well, I think you did bring it on topic and full circle.:)

    The OP complaint about dead upgrade paths with Android (with the many current models offered or 1 year old ones), doesn't happen with Apple iOS. The current iOS is offered for at least 1 year back and the same with all current models offered. 4, 4S and 3GS.

    Apple makes the upgrade path available, straight forward, and easy: that is why I like it better than what has happened to Android OS and all the phone models offered. Seems silly to buy a phone that is stuck with an old OS and shut out from the upgrade path out of the box.
     
  29. RadioRaiders

    RadioRaiders RF Black-Belt
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    What do you mean by "one year back"? And to clarify, what iPhone versions are no longer receiving updates to the OS?

    Why? As I said, my phone has Android 2.2.2 and it's working fine. I honestly don't care if it never gets upgraded because it works fine as it is (BTW I also have a laptop running Windows XP still, that's also working fine)

    And actually, how long do people hold onto phones these days? You can get a new free phone after 2 years on contract. By the time your phones software is outdated, it's hardware is as well, so just upgrade both! :)
     
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  30. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    You really are stuck on this. The OP's question (and he never came back to WA!!!), was that he felt abandoned by the phone mgfr, just a year after buying the phone.


    iOS 5 supports iPhone models going back to June 2009, about 3 years ago. That would be the 3GS, which is still sold.

    I guess you need to bow down to Apple then, by your own words :notworthy:P

    That is the point. Apple only sells phones (or partners like ATT) that can support, hardware wise, and do have an upgrade path to the latest iOS. Unlike carriers selling Android phones that don't have an upgrade path to ICS, even just 1 year ago. And that probably have hardware that support the upgrade. Forget about saying how 'easy it is to do yourself' , we are talking about updates from the mgfr of the phone or carriers.

    That was the OP's question: his phone was just purchased the year before. I think that your answers have been posted in this thread above...the rest you can easily find by googling just a bit.

    This kind of practice build customer loyalty. Sure phones like the original 2G (i.e. now WCDMA) are not supported with upgrades, but that was 2007. The 3G, 3.5 years old now, is supported up through 4.x.x's up to the release 5.0. At some point internal hardware (mainly processor speed, etc) will limit upgrades...but, I think, there are good hardware Android phones out there, that can run ICS, but it seems you have to do it yourself, and not via the phone mgfr. Apple is not perfect...but they do try to make the effort at least, as best as hardware allows.

    This is what Jobs meant by Android fragmentation. But if you are happy not upgrading to ICS on your phone, more power to you. I prefer to have the latest updates on all my iDevices and non-iDevices.
     
    #30 viewfly, May 16, 2012
    Last edited: May 16, 2012

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