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??Sprint Myths??and also a bit of GSM thrown in

Discussion in 'Northeastern US Wireless Forum' started by IdiOTeQnoLogY, Mar 24, 2002.

  1. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    Come on now, what provider is going to have GSM and cdma200 1xrtt? Please tell me, because I don't understand.
    Oh yeah, I read that article too Matt. It gives some good info about T-Mobile's future.
     
  2. Gman

    Gman Senior Member
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    Kenny-

    People in Chicago have a right to say that the service in Chicago is bad if that is what they experienced. They do not have any reason to extrapolate that experience to an entire company and network. It is common but just plain fallacious reasoning.

    I don't agree that the maps for Chicago are the same as two years ago. Much more is covered now.

    G.
     
  3. IdiOTeQnoLogY

    IdiOTeQnoLogY Bronze Senior Member
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    you need to read a little better aiwopro. i never said EDGE was not a seamless advance from GPRS. but WCDMA or UMTS which is the final step in 3g (and requires much new spectrum) for those carriers is NOT seamless (from what ive read) however. for cdma carriers the migration from cdma to cdma1rxtt to true cdma 3g is a natural evolution throughout. of course there still will be setbacks and bugs nobody is denying that but even gsm carriers will admit that their path to WCDMA is harder than a CDMA carriers path to cdma2000, of which both (supposedly as defined by studies will break 2 megabit/sec data speeds)
    and as to the other reply. i never said that there are gsm/cdma phones out there now, but that several companies have announced that they will be releasing such technology in the near future (2003) in which phones will work on both GSM and cdma1x for both voice and data. ill get on finding the link to the reports for u .


    and aiwapro the whole point of having a gsm/cdma phone is not so ONE carrier provides BOTH THOSE TECHNOLOGIES, as you say in ure poston, its airwaves. DUH. its so a person say on Sprint or Verizon CDMA technology here in the states or on one of Korea's or Japans CDMA networks can travel to Europe/Asia etc. and use their phone and roam on ANOTHER, FOREIGN carriers GSM/GPRS technology airwaves. gee. thought that was self explanatory. i guess not.
     
  4. Apoc

    Apoc Senior Member
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    you know sometimes i think SPCS would be even better if they gave us all a free month of service.....what this has to do with anything i am not sure, good post btw----when will SPCS launch there 3g???? where waiting folks
     
  5. Kenny

    Kenny Senior Member
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    Gman, I don't understand something here? I just said in my last post that ok I agree that coverage may have been expanded in Chicago...but that's not really the focus of my point. My point was about service within the stated coverage area from 2 years ago.

    As far as people "extrapolating" their experience in Chicago to the entire company and network...well that may be true but most of the experiences I've seen and read on this forum, alt.cellular.xxx forums and epinions.com seem to focus on their specific region. On epinions you will find many posts that say I'm in the 773 area code on Chicago's north side and blah blah blah. Just about every post seems to make a reference to where people use their phone (ie. Chicago). Of course they are going to reference the name "Sprint PCS." Don't forget that customer service is not local to Chicago but is a nationwide representation of the company. So you have people who have problems with Sprint PCS in Chicago and at the same time with Sprint PCS' main customer service carereps. This is of course not representative of how good your reception is in Dallas, San Diego or wherever but again, naturally based on what I mentioned people are gonna say bad things about the company. Mind you, people don't say "well if the service sucks in Chicago then it'll suck everywhere else..." Never heard that before.

    By the way, tons of people in NYC have been saying "Oh AT&T Wireless sucks" for the past few years... yet the AT&T advocates on these forums haven't flinched one bit because we know that although they are referencing "AT&T Wireless" but their experience pertains to the NYC area. And don't forget many people rant on a company not just about local reception/service but on billing and customer care issues, and possibly company policies -- all which are generally not localized service.
     
  6. Kenny

    Kenny Senior Member
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    I've already posted this in another thread but it would be interesting to follow the developments of the recently introduced GSM1x technology. Below is an excerpt from Qualcomm's press release.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ORLANDO, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 18, 2002--QUALCOMM Incorporated, pioneer and world leader of Code Division Multiple Access (CDMA) digital wireless technology, today announced that leading equipment manufacturers Kyocera, Nortel Networks, Samsung Electronics, Sanyo, Spatial Wireless, TCL Mobile and Winphoria Networks support the development of GSM1x, a new and cost-effective technology evolution for Global System for Mobile (GSM) operators.

    GSM1x enables convergence of a GSM/GPRS core service network with CDMA2000 radio access. GSM operators can seamlessly integrate this new solution by leveraging their existing GSM/GPRS core network equipment while enhancing the data capabilities and spectral efficiency of their radio access with commercially available CDMA2000 1X infrastructure. Using existing spectrum, GSM1x offers GSM operators increased voice and data capacity, supporting peak data speeds of up to 307 kbps in a 1.25 MHz channel. Common data throughput achieves up to 70-90 kbps, two to three times the throughput of standard dial-up modems. Additionally, the GSM1x solution seamlessly supports the CDMA2000 1xEV-DO air interface, allowing peak data rates of 2.4Mbps. The GSM1x solution supports SMS and position location, and introduces a GSM1x MSN to interface an existing and unmodified GSM core network with an unmodified CDMA2000 radio access network. GSM1x terminals utilize a standard GSM Subscriber Identity Module (SIM) and are subject to standard GSM authentication. As a result, operators will be able to offer global roaming and service transparency between CDMA2000 1X and GSM networks without compromising their current infrastructure.
     
  7. Kenny

    Kenny Senior Member
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    I'll probably post this one too on the General discussion - Wireless News forum

    US Big 6 Operators 3G Overall Position
    3G.co.uk
    21st March 2002


    Ranked No. 1 and No. 2 by Technology Business Research's competitive benchmark, Verizon Wireless and Cingular Wireless are the best-positioned mobile operators in the United States with 24% and 18% of subscribers, respectively. Leveraging its size advantage and 3G migration path based on cdma2000, Verizon Wireless can now focus on improving ARPU [Average Revenue Per User] and profitability. However, Verizon Wireless's future in the global market is uncertain since it has a very precarious relationship with its joint venture owner Vodafone, which may look to sell off its stake to end the relationship.

    Although Cingular's 3G migration by way of GSM/GPRS to EDGE is more complex, it will leave the company well positioned to align with or be acquired by a global player. However, Cingular is a moneymaker for SBC and BellSouth, its joint venture owners that seem to lack consensus on Cingular's future in the global wireless market.

    "Capital costs and spectrum needs will compel AT&T Wireless, Cingular and VoiceStream to seek network sharing deals in 2002, which we believe will be a major stepping stone to further consolidation of mobile operators in 2003," stated NBQ wireless analyst Chris Foster (cfoster@tbri.com).

    Sprint PCS and AT&T Wireless, ranked No. 3 and No. 4 by TBR, have 11% and 14% subscriber market share, respectively, in the United States, but the two companies have very different future outlooks. Sprint PCS, which is upgrading to 3G by way of cdma2000 starting with a mid-2002 1xRTT rollout, has focused on subscriber and revenue growth since its inception; yet, the company still lacks profitability. Sprint PCS will be a leader in providing 3G data services nationwide, but the company lacks a global strategy. AT&T Wireless is well positioned globally with its investor and partner NTT DoCoMo; however, AT&T Wireless is faced with more complex 3G upgrade path. AT&T Wireless has been profitable with the exception of this quarter's results, which included a writeoff of its fixed wireless business.

    Ranked No. 5 by TBR's benchmark, Nextel Communications has an international division, but lacks the resources to become a dominant global player. Moreover, Nextel's 3G migration path is dependent on Motorola delivering an upgrade for its iDEN network infrastructure. Nextel has the highest ARPU and is the leader in capturing enterprise customers, which TBR believes should be a top priority of each mobile operator this year. However, Nextel's highly differentiated DirectConnect feature will likely be diluted as Verizon Wireless and Cingular introduce their own push-to-talk (PTT) features. To support its capital structure and to reach profitability, Nextel must maintain growth in a highly competitive market. TBR believes Nextel's best option is for Verizon Wireless or Cingular to acquire Nextel for its enterprise customers.

    "Due to the high cost of fixed assets for a national wireless carrier, we believe carriers must establish a subscriber base of approximately 15 million before profitability can be attained," stated NBQ wireless analyst Jay Slattery (jslattery@tbri.com).

    Lastly, VoiceStream Wireless, acquired by Deutsche Telekom for an astounding $30 billion in 2000, has limited subscriber market share in the United States and will not become a dominant player without further acquisitions by Deutsche Telekom. However, to VoiceStream's advantage, the company is an early mover in wireless LAN services with its acquisition of MobileStar and it plans to integrate public hot spot services with cellular services.

    Beyond network buildouts and ARPU, mobile operators are most challenged to understand their competitive position in providing mobile data services, software and applications with or without partnerships and alliances, including with IT players such as IBM, Hewlett-Packard/Compaq, Electronic Data Systems, PricewaterhouseCoopers and Microsoft. "Mobile operators must reach beyond their traditional competitive environments of capex, subscriber growth and ARPU and grasp the opportunity of the new mobile service value chain by way of partnerships and alliances," stated Bill Lesieur (lesieur@tbri.com), TBR Director of Network Business Quarterly, "The value chain of mobile voice and data services will be forever changed by 2003, so mobile operators must embrace the change now or get pummeled by it."

    IBM has big plans to be the dominant supplier of IT infrastructure to mobile operators and is seeking to own the layer between the IP core network and radio networks/phones. If IBM can land major partnerships with several of the top eight to 10 global operators, then it will be best positioned to dominate the enterprise market with 3G services and mobile Internet applications. Meanwhile, Microsoft clearly wants to dominate and control the software layer (operating system, browser, middleware) and application layer (in conjunction with its large installed base of developers), which will force the mobile phone and device makers to fight it out on hardware margins, leaving Microsoft as the only profitable player left in the end. Microsoft's business model is simple and clean, but its execution of the strategy to achieve its market goals is ruthless and cunning.

    The future of the U.S. mobile operators depends on several key factors:

    --Globalization: How well the operator is positioned to partner or be acquired by a global mobile operator.

    --Consolidation: The ability to survive in a maturing market.

    --Capital Structure: Ability to fund and build networks, scale operations and establish a global brand.

    --3G Services: Ability to deliver data applications, software and mobile Internet services.

    --Partnerships: Ability and willingness to partner with IT infrastructure, software and content providers.

    --Acceptance: Mass-market customer adoption of 3G services and data application.
     
  8. Matt

    Matt Twin girls!
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    Kenny - thanks for your post of the QCOM PR from 18 March. That's what I was going to post. IdiOTeQnoLogY - that's all the information that is out there right now. I follow the industry pretty closely as I am in investor in several of these companies. That press release is just a week old; it's just the announcement that QCOM has a chipset that will support GSM/cdma2000 1xRTT. AFAIK, there have been no announcements by either operators or handset manufacturers that they will support this alternative. That doesn't mean they won't; it's just the current situation today. If you have other links, I'd like to see them.
     
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  9. IdiOTeQnoLogY

    IdiOTeQnoLogY Bronze Senior Member
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    thanks kenny for finding that article and posting it it sums everything up quite nicely, especially the sentence about this will allow users to transfer seamlessly between gsm/gprs and cdma1x networks seamlessly.
    also earlier i mistakenly said ure name instead of Aiwapro in one of my posts. also here is a little clip from an article from 3g.co.uk

    KDDI uses the CDMA technology, which is different from the W-CDMA (wideband code-division multiple access) standard adopted by DoCoMo and J-Phone.

    While W-CDMA requires hefty spending to build new networks for 3G services, CDMA involves lower costs to boost transmission speeds because existing networks can be upgraded.

    This allows KDDI to offer competitive communication fees, rapid coverage expansion and smooth migration to 3G, with users able to switch between 3G and 2G with one mobile handset.

    DoCoMo 3G users, on the other hand, have to carry two handsets if they want to be connected everywhere in Japan until a whole new network is completed..

    The CDMA system also features GPS (global positioning system), a service W-CDMA networks will not be able to offer.
     
  10. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    I agree that the article that Kenny offered, sums up all of the current technology. It even has the part about Voicestream, and them heading towards bringing broadband capabilities & cellular capabilities together; that is very recent. I don't agree with the article when it says that Voicestream will not be a major player, without further acquisitions from Deutsch Telecom. There aren't that many GSM providers in the US for them to acquire. There is Voicestream, and their is Cingular, and some little local ones I beleive. I'm sure that they are looking at Cingular, but then are looking away from Cingular, because Cingular doesn't have too much more than Voicestream already has, so their wouldn't be much of a gain for Voicestream.

    As they talked about Global Marketing, when they got to Voicestream, they failed to acknowledge that Deutsch Telecom is a global provider as we all know. As the other wireless providers are wanting to be acquired by a global company, Voicestream has already got this covered. That is very important, since they seemed to talk a lot about Global Marketing throughout the article.
    There is no way in the world that Cingular should be ranked that high. Over Sprint and AT&T, come on now, not even Voicestream.
     
  11. larry

    larry Sprint loyalist and former mod
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    Although I've only used Cingular when they were Pac Bell here in California about 4 years ago, I don't think they are that great either. I mean just look at the latest JD Powers awards. They only won in one market and even that was a tie with Verizon. You would think that a company that big with a presence in nearly all major markets would have faired better.
     
  12. Wayne

    Wayne Senior Member
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    I DEMAND A RECOUNT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
    srry had to put that in there[​IMG]
     
  13. IdiOTeQnoLogY

    IdiOTeQnoLogY Bronze Senior Member
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    you need to read a little better aiwopro. i never said EDGE was not a seamless advance from GPRS. but WCDMA or UMTS which is the final step in 3g (and requires much new spectrum) for those carriers is NOT seamless (from what ive read) however. for cdma carriers the migration from cdma to cdma1rxtt to true cdma 3g is a natural evolution throughout. of course there still will be setbacks and bugs nobody is denying that but even gsm carriers will admit that their path to WCDMA is harder than a CDMA carriers path to cdma2000, of which both (supposedly as defined by studies will break 2 megabit/sec data speeds)
    and as to the other reply. i never said that there are gsm/cdma phones out there now, but that several companies have announced that they will be releasing such technology in the near future (2003) in which phones will work on both GSM and cdma1x for both voice and data. ill get on finding the link to the reports for u .


    and aiwapro the whole point of having a gsm/cdma phone is not so ONE carrier provides BOTH THOSE TECHNOLOGIES, as you say in ure poston, its airwaves. DUH. its so a person say on Sprint or Verizon CDMA technology here in the states or on one of Korea's or Japans CDMA networks can travel to Europe/Asia etc. and use their phone and roam on ANOTHER, FOREIGN carriers GSM/GPRS technology airwaves. gee. thought that was self explanatory. i guess not.
     

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