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Sprint 4G info - and EVDO to expand to 260m population

Discussion in 'GENERAL Wireless Discussion' started by xenophon, Jan 23, 2006.

  1. hillbilly44

    hillbilly44 Senior Member
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    If you look at Sprints website then dril down to look at EVDO coverage you're no where close to the coverage you claim.:confused:
     
  2. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    Please be specific. The maps are considered very accurate by users over on evdoforums.com. In fact, Sprint has been conservative with the maps. There are many users reporting areas not marked with EVDO that actually have it.

    http://www.sprint.com/business/products/products/evdoEnterZip.jsp

    Both Sprint and Verizon claim to have 150m population coverage with EVDO. Verizon has outskirts of some metros better covered. Sprint is in many many more markets under 1.5m. Verizon has slowed down the rollout likely due to the 800mhz tower issue (smaller markets don't have 1900 towers). Sprint is still plugging away at upgrading 1900 towers.

    If anything, I'd question Verizon's claim of 150m as they are in far fewer markets.
     
  3. Andy

    Andy Diamond Senior Member
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    Verizon has actually claimed 150m pops for a while now and this does not even include some newer markets, like northern Utah, which covers at least 2 million additional people. Once Verizon updates those EVDO pops they should be a lot higher; why exactly would you(a Sprint fan) question Verizon's EVDO numbers?
     
  4. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    Verizon claimed 150m in December. I don't exactly question it but if you are going to say that Sprint is not 150m, then Verizon definitely is not.

    http://www.sprint.com/business/products/products/wirelessHighSpeedData_tabC.jsp

    http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController?requesttype=newsearch
    (Select Vcast)

    Sprint is in Buffalo, Nashville, Omaha, Honolulu, Puerto Rico, Wichita, Birmingham, Tulsa/OK City and other cities over 500K-1M+ (and small markets), which Verizon is not in. There is no major market (1.5m+) that Verizon is in that Sprint is not. Verizon does have outer edges covered better for some markets though, but likely not enough to equate with the cities Sprint is also in. Core small cities will tend to have more people per sq. mile than beyond suburbia of large markets.

    So if Verizon covers 150m, then Sprint likely covers over 150m, especially since the Sprint second phase rollout still continues with the target to 260m. Verizon is restricted with 800mhz towers in smaller markets while Sprint is not and Verizon has not announced a rollout beyond 150m. Verizon has long stated that they will cover 150m when rollout completes.

    Nice try guys. Call me a fanboy but I'm simply giving information based on analysis, not bias. I used to have Verizon EVDO and loved it, but they are behind now in overall coverage and performance and terms of service. I supposed if I lived in exurbia, Verizon might work out better.
     
  5. jrip

    jrip Senior Member
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    Look the pop's covered with EVDO for both VZW and Sprint are bloated. For marketing purposes....bragging rights. Sprint Nextel cannot provide EVDO to 260million pop's. Simply because there is not 260 million pop's in Sprint Nextel's CDMA corporate markets. Including all affiliates, yes. But not all affiliates plan to/have launched EVDO in any/many markets. Sprint Nextel corporation just does not control enough of their network to reach the pop's claimed. Because as of right now affiliates own 2/3 of the "Sprint Nationwide Network". This will not change until/unless Sprint Nextel buys out all/enough affiliates. PERIOD! No matter how much you want it to.
     
  6. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    Please show reasonable sources that also challenge that. Here's one that confirms the claims are reasonable...

    http://www.citymayors.com/gratis/us-census2000.html

    "In 2003, more than half the US population lived in metro areas with populations of one million or more."

    Both Sprint/Verizon claim to cover 150m population with EVDO. If half the US population (298m) is in cities over a million, and Sprint does have about all 1m+ metros covered with EVDO (and many many markets under 1m), then the 150m claim is reasonable, likely closer to 160m. Verizon does not have several 1m+ markets covered and is in few small markets so the 150m claim may or may not be bloated.


    You are obviously convinced of that and I won't attempt to change your beliefs as you have not been able to come up with sources for your other flippant comments.
     
  7. hillbilly44

    hillbilly44 Senior Member
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    The problem is if you look at the information SPRINT gives out then your claims are incorrect. The link you show with there numbers are not considered valid by the US Census bureau. It's more a marketing hype to show companies they are recruiting for there cities so the validity of the numbers it shows are in doubt. I think when someone points out the flaws in your argument that you seem to be grasping at staws:rolleyes:
     
  8. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    Now that's grasping for straws. Do a google for US population on the subject. It's commonly shown by the Census Bureau that more than half of the US population is in metro areas over 1m.

    In most of your posts, you've been attempting to twist information to your bizarre biased logic. Sprint has EVDO in all markets over 1m (as well as many under 1m) and Verizon is in most over 1m with some under 1m. It's pretty reasonable claims that they have, but you guys seem to want to spin it as some kind of alien conspiracy. The coverage claims for EVDO are very reasonable.
     
  9. Gman

    Gman Senior Member
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    Xenophon has posted lots of supporting links for his statements. When aggregated together there is a basis for what he says. On the flip side of the argument there has been conjecture. I haven't noticed any straws being grasped.
     
  10. hillbilly44

    hillbilly44 Senior Member
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    First of all I'm not twisting anything. I just pointed out that Sprint was showing something different. I don't use Sprint or Verizon so it doesn't really matter to me. You seem to be the one getting all excited:(
     
  11. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    You said the info I posted was 'incorrect'. If my attempts to validate info is 'getting all excited' then challenging info into something else with no source to support is "twisting into a spinmeister". :)
     
    #41 xenophon, Jan 28, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2006
  12. hillbilly44

    hillbilly44 Senior Member
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    Maybe but the source I quoted was the US Census Bureau, which I consider a valid source. So if that's twisting so be it:rolleyes:
     
  13. Runagun

    Runagun New Member

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    Was reading an article from RCRwireless where is states that SN is upgrading there network to evdo so fast that its around 13 million people a week. Page 8 of January 23, 2006 edition of RCR Wireless News.
     
  14. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    Sprint claimed about 150m coverage back in December so if the case, they are now over 180m coverage with EVDO. But I'd think that 13m rate would slow down once denser areas are fully covered.

    Meanwhile, Verizon has no major expansion plan announced and I haven't seen any new cities announced since Dec. They very well may be adding more markets but with the 800mhz tower limitation, you gotta wonder if they close to hitting a peak.
     
  15. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    This is interesting. While Verizon (and Cingular on some points) specifically state no streaming video, music or online gaming, Sprint actual promotes it. Sprint has no major restrictions other than unlawful use. Sprint does not restrict legal P2P filesharing.

    http://www.sprint.com/business/products/products/wirelessHighSpeedData_tabB.jsp

    Permits More Business Applications—With Sprint you can:
    * Stream a meeting to a national employee audience
    * Download multimedia content (i.e., sales presentations or training video), music or games.






    Verizon looks draconian...

    Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess services cannot be used (1) for uploading, downloading or streaming of movies, music or games, (2) with server devices or with host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, Voice over IP (VoIP), automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing, or (3) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections.

    http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/promotion/controller?promotionType=miniPac&action=miniStart


    Cingular is almost as restrictive as Verizon...
    http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/09/tos_on_cingulars_wir.html

    Prohibited uses include, but are not limited to, telemetry applications, automated data feeds, continuous jpeg file transfers, Web camera posts or broadcasts, other machine-to-machine applications, and voice over IP. These Services are not intended to provide full-time connections, and the Service may be discontinued after a significant period of inactivity or after sessions of excessive usage.
     
    #45 xenophon, Jan 30, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2006
  16. @TheRealDanny

    @TheRealDanny ALL IN
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    Neither VZW's or Sprint's EVDO coverage is anything to write home over. From another perspective, SK Telecom is a bit disappointed in EVDO's availability and we use Sprint as our main service operator since they cost less on the wholesale end.

    There are just too many holes. Regardless of how well built native networks are, they still don't make up for the gaps, holes, and lack of EVDO coverage to the extent needed for a seamless 3G experience "wherever" you are.

    The press releases never say this. I know what goes on in the backround. Not all is pretty.
     
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  17. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    ^EVDO is still far better than finding a WiFi hotspot and is more broadly available than anything else in its category. It doesn't claim nationwide coverage. Within a year, if you are in an area of Sprint's native network, the chances are good you'll get an EVDO signal on Sprint. Maybe not 100% but far better chance than other technologies out there, unless you consider satellite as a competitor.

    On top of EVDO, Sprint may do WiMAX or similar 4G to cover gaps and many rural areas.

    Have you ever tried EVDO? I now have EVDO laptop card set as my primary even though slower than WiFi. I have a WiFi router at home but don't even bother switching since EVDO is always on and fast enough for most everything I do.
     
  18. @TheRealDanny

    @TheRealDanny ALL IN
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    Yes. I work for Helio. I do it all. Believe me. Wi-fi, EVDO etc.

    The tech is good in theory and has great potential, but poor indoor coverage in many upscale areas makes EVDO almost unusable in many areas. An indoor repeater helps, but newer technologies are more efficient.

    Wifi, Wibro, or WiMax may help, but's it's not here yet in large scale.

    Convergence is the name of the game. Whether you be VZW, Sprint, or a MVNO like us, we're all on the same path. Sprint just put's the press releases out there to make it's name known. Each will leverage what it can where it can.

    VZW and SK Telecom are working on their expansion plans too but keep it quiet. I know, but am not at liberty go give details. :)
     
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  19. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    Might want to check out users over at evdoforums.com who actually use it as we are now beyond theory and potential. Many are pretty pleased with it, at least those who get EVDO signal. I've had both Sprint/Verizon since available in my area and use it often when traveling. I'll take good speeds broadly available over faster WiFi hotspots that are not metro wide.

    EVDO is marketed at 400-700Kbits/sec but check out the results of Sprint users as many get well over 1Mbit/sec (over 25%) and the avg is over 700K. There's really not much to be skeptical about as it is delivering beyond what is marketed.

    http://www.dslreports.com/archive/spcsdns.net

    But I'm sure there are issues in some areas. As more towers are upgraded, the issues should reduce. Some people have ping pong problems between 1xRTT and EVDO towers. As Sprint upgrades all towers to EVDO, that issue will disappear. Verizon may have a challenge with the outstanding 800mhz towers of which most likely won't get EVDO.
     
  20. @TheRealDanny

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    A lot of users at EVDO forums with claims of internet speed fail to bring to light the reality of their situations.

    Honestly, VZW has more customers than Sprint does using EVDO service; whether it be phones or data cards. EVDO, like CDMA, is affected by cell breathing. The more users on the network, the slower the output.

    Some Sprint users are comparing areas where Sprint has not officially launched EVDO service yet to areas where VZW has and compare the speeds when they may be in fact the only ones using the service. If all Sprint customers decided to use EVDO phones tomorrow for data streaming, it would overwhelm the network.

    EVDV may have made this issue obsolete, but Sprint did not follow through with its original plans.

    There is no way to control who, when or where EVDO users decide to use their services. Without that kind of data, it is almost impossible to make any black and white assumptions on average speeds.

    For my companies sake, we need Sprint to succeed in their plans. I hope what they promise is not simply to raise investor confidence as we've seen in the past. We want more than just "POPS," coverage, we want excellent quality coverage that doesn't diminish everytime you walk into a building or while in your office. If they can succeed at that, our customers will be happy.
     
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  21. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    Yes, Verizon has up to twice as many CDMA users per tower than Sprint and it will likely be that way long term. Verizon also apparently has mostly 800mhz towers, which does not have as much capacity as 1900. This means Sprint has far more capacity partially due to fewer users per tower and partially because Sprint has all 1900 towers. It will likely be that way for years as Sprint continues to add 1900 towers on Nextel sites. As of Fall last year, Verizon had over 23,000 CDMA towers apparently over 50% 800mhz while Sprint had over 24,000 all 1900. Sprint plans to add 14K more on Nextel sites in next couple year.

    As far as over 1Mb, I've had Sprint EVDO since June and it has been in my area since May. I still get over 1Mb consistently near window and avg about 700K deep in my concrete condo. At work, dozens of people have a Sprint EVDO card and while most won't be active at same time, I still get over well over 1Mbps.

    The 'claimed' speeds aren't fixed. It is posted at this site after the tests and you can't fake the results... I've been tracking results on this site for months and when you avg the results over many months, the data is reasonably accurate.
    http://www.dslreports.com/archive/spcsdns.net

    As far as 'Sprint users in not officially launched areas', take a look at the maps. Sprint is officially launched in many more markets than Verizon. But agreed, if all users start doing lots of data at once on same tower, it would indeed overwhelm the network, which is why other overlying technologies will be rolled out. In the meantime, there are many pleased EVDO users and it is definitely worth having.
     
  22. @TheRealDanny

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    I'm speaking about areas where there has been no official launch...

    Do you notice certain areas of the northeast; Pennsylvania for instance; where VZW considers two cities as "one market," and Sprint considers the same two cities as "two markets?"

    Is there a reason for this? Marketing?
     
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  23. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    Not sure but if you look at maps and ignore marketing terms, Sprint is clearly in more areas, especially in smaller metros between 400K-1.5million. Verizon is missing in several distinct markets over 1m - Nashville, Buffalo, Tulsa, Birmingham and others - perhaps they only have 800mhz towers? Sprint is also in Wichita, Honolulu, Omaha and many 500K+ markets that Verizon is not in. 800mhz markets?

    Take another look at Sprint/Verizon performance comparisons. Sprint's network has been out since May but hasn't shown any signs of performance hits. Verizon is slowly decreasing in performance.

    http://www.dslreports.com/archive/spcsdns.net
    http://www.dslreports.com/archive/myvzw.com
     

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