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REQ: Benefits of GSM over CDMA

Discussion in 'Northeastern US Wireless Forum' started by Guest, Aug 5, 2002.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    what are the benefits of gsm over cdma? i'm debating whether or not to switch over to cingular for the motorola v70 and possibly other cool phones down the future that only come in gsm. i know the coverage isn't as good as say verizon, but it might be worth it if i could find out what other features gsm has over cdma now and in the future.

    thanks in advance
     
  2. Joe0378

    Joe0378 Senior Member
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    Right now, CDMA coverage is very large across the United States while GSM is very small and limited to the MAJOR US cities. I'd prefer CDMA because coverage is much better. What good is a cool looking phone if its just a paper weight in most parts of the US?
     
  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    well i'm also wondering if gsm isn't the wave of the future.
     
  4. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    Well, I am going to try and focus on the original question and not on how expanded coverage is because that's irrelevant.
    Theoretically, the sound on a GSM network is supposed to be of better quality than that of a CDMA network (although others will argue this). However, that is something that a human ear cannot tell. Some people claim to hear differences but they ignore the fact that they are using different phones under different conditions. Another advantage of GSM is that phones can be made with internal antennas without compromising signal quality. In the real world, I don't see any other advantages of GSM over CDMA. On the contrary, CDMA has more advantages over GSM such as faster data speeds, better eavesdropping security, more system capacity which translates into less busy signals, ability to decode weaker signals than GSM, built-in noise cancellation, less expensive deployment because less antennas are required; this allows your carrier to fill more coverage gaps by installing more cellsites within their budget and hence you get a better signal. I am sure someone else can think of other advantages I can't recall at the moment.
     
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  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Aren't all the GSM carriers going to something like CDMA.
     
  6. RBOCMAN

    RBOCMAN Junior Member
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    W-CDMA is among the a slew of 3G platforms being considered. But dont let the name fool you, most if not all Cell Phone manfucaturers and developers have said that GSM is a more 'elegant' and 'scalable' way to 3G.
    75% of all Wireless Engineers globally are in GSM business. The only Wireless Engineering program in the US at Auburn has a GSM/W- CDMA lab.

    Sometimes the winner is glaringly obvious.

    No one seems to realise that AT&T and Cingular are moving to GSM, thats T-Mobile/Cingular/AT&T all having GSM networks No2 No3 and No 5 (3 of the Big 5). With consilidation you're gonna get a nationwide digital network rivaling and probably beating the analog/CDMA combo these verizon fans love. Im talking about a hopeful digital footprint rivaling that of Europe here in the US. Within 3 yrs 3G would hopefully be here and be deployed over the GSM networks(all the cell manufactures have said the will concentrate on upgrading the GSM networks first). Sooner or later you guys have to realise that the cell phone manufacturers are not in the business of keeping CDMA in business.

    Verizon and Qualcomm can whine all they want about CDMA, its on its way out......
     
  7. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    I agree with you RBOCMAN.

    That is wrong. GSM has just as fast data speeds as CDMA. Also, GSM has better security than CDMA. There is an article that proves this, but I will have to find it. GSM is alot more secure. Someone posted that Ex-President Clinton and Family use Voicestream because of this.
     
  8. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    There is a very important benefit of GSM over CDMA, and that is international roaming. The roaming between customers in the US with GSM and the customers overseas is seemless. No extra network or equipment is needed to roam in either place. In other words, all you have to do is use your dual or tri-band GSM phone, and you can travel all around the world and have service and coverage without any problems. You CANNOT do that with CDMA.

    GSM is a world standard.
     
  9. Guest

    Guest Guest

    i hear you can't go international with cingular. is that true?
     
  10. zeeker

    zeeker Junior Member
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    Nicely said.
     
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  11. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    Yes, but Cingular's international roaming rates are very expensive. Voicestream (T-Mobile) has the cheapest rates, and noone will ever be able to compete with that, because Voicestream (T-Mobile) is owned by DT which runs a very extensive wireless service across the whole world.
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    if you can't go international, then how can the rates be high for cingular?
     
  13. zeeker

    zeeker Junior Member
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    Cingular is in the process of converting their network to GSM (have limited coverage so far in the US). they do have international agreements.
     
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  14. Airb330

    Airb330 Silver Senior Member
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    This thread is a joke. Wow, in 3 years GSM may have excellant coverage, who cares? That's three years down the road, right now only VS is a national GSM carrier. In 3 years Sprint and Verizon will still have more coverage than the gsm boys.
     
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ouch! somebody sounds jealous!
     
  16. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    Only Cingular's GSM customers can roam internationally, not the TDMA customers. Cingular's international rates are around $2.99/minute, as Voicestream's rates are $0.99/minute. Actually right now, for the next month or so, Voicestream's rates are $0.49/minute.
     
  17. Guest

    Guest Guest

    does anyone know when voicestream will carry the v70?
     
  18. markley268

    markley268 Junior Member
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    does anybody actually know what GSM is doing for an encoding scheme?

    i mean, CDMA uses digital codes to scramble the message
    TDMA takes slices of time and transmits your signal all "cut" up so to speak

    but what the heck does GSM do?
     
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  19. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    Supposedly at the end of August, as soon as Cingular doesn't have the sole rights to it anymore. Maybe Voicestream will carry the tri-band model. It would benefit them and their customers more to get the tri-band model. If you want the phone now, you can get it though and use it with Voicestream.
     
  20. CDANMA

    CDANMA Junior Member
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    This topic again.......

    Sound quailty could be better on CDMA or GSM depends on how they set there network up... I've heard some crappy CDMA calls as well as crappy GSM calls.Data speed: CDMA will win there vs. GSM of today.But GSM will get better data rates later down ther road.... Cost ;CDMA is cheaper to build a full cell site than GSM. Internal antenna's are more based on 800MHz vs. 1900MHz rather than CDMA or GSM. GSM has an advantage when it comes to CDMA breathing effect,GSM is a more consestant(spelling??) signal than CDMA . CDMA has an easier path to 3G than GSM. GSM is more international than CDMA.


    Summary: CDMA and GSM both work great in there own ways.....
     
  21. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    While others spend time talking about irrelevant matters such as who has more coverage, I try to stay focused on the original question which is about the differences between the two technologies.
    When these companies say that GSM has a more "elegant" and "scalable"path to 3G I simply say that's just an excuse for justifying the exhorbitant expense they will have moving to 3G in comparison to CDMA carriers. And yes, CDMA has potential for faster data speeds than GSM. I am sorry that some of us don't like to hear the truth but the facts are there. If CDMA has a 1.25Mhz per channel bandwidth there's no way GSM can obtain faster data speeds right now. I like GSM and all but we have to accept that there are better things out there and that CDMA is a newer more advanced protocol than GSM. We are talking about technical facts here not about what we like to hear or about what is more used in the world.
     
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  22. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    After GSM's upgrades to 3G, they speed will be about the same. Right now, GPRS vs. CDMA 1X is about the same right now, and future upgrades will still allow the two types of technology to run neck and neck. It's really just a matter of preference.
     
  23. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    Ok, here's one of the articles that I was looking for that talks about GSM security now and in the future.
     
  24. MTS2000

    MTS2000 Junior Member
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    CDMA is a superior platform hands down, that is why a derivative (w-CDMA) is being consdiered for next generation GSM systems. At it heart, current GSM networks are based on late 1980's technology, and really offer no advantages to it's western counterpart, IS-136. It is still TDMA and as good as TDMA has been, it is time to move on. Also consdier the massive undertaking of converting exsisting TDMA (IS-136) networks to GSM...a big headache. Cingular for example, in Georgia, operates it's established network on 800MHz TDMA and this means building out a totally new 1900MHz system- 1900MHz SUCKS in areas like Atlanta (especially north Ga. mountains) so it is going to cost big bucks to do this...and they will still be supporting TDMA/AMPS for quite some time after until each and every last paying customer makes the switch.

    CDMA offers "soft handoffs" since all sites are using the same radio channel (1.25MHz wide) your call can be processed by multiple sites and handoff without missing a beat. CDMA offers more capacity than any TDMA based format (GSM, iDEN, IS-136) so this means less busies or missed calls, and since bandwidth can be dynamically distributed, providers can offer more bang for the buck. CDMA performs much better than TDMA when your signal is weaker. And there is no doubt that aside from government grade encryption (FASCINATOR, for example), CDMA is the most "secure" wireless you can get. (Though no wireless system is COMPLETELY secure).
     
  25. Mike

    Mike Senior Member
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    One other advantage of GSM is the SIM Card. You can store your phone book on it. As soon as a new GSM phone becomes available you can buy it, make sure it is unlocked phone, put your SIM in and start using the new phone.

    With CDMA/TDMA you have to wait until the provider offers the phone, then go to their store, buy it and have them activate it. Usually you loose all your phone book entries.
     
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  26. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    w-CDMA isn't really as close to CDMA as you think it is. It's not the same as TDMA either. Any user of both TDMA and GSM will tell you that GSM has better quality all-around, call-quality, etc.
     
  27. zeeker

    zeeker Junior Member
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    I can attest to that. My wifes LG510 is horrible compared to my V60. My connection is like a LAN line. That is the unbiased truth.
     
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  28. Kenny

    Kenny Senior Member
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    An interesting article I found on phonescoop.com:

    (BW)(CA-CDMA-DEVELOPMENT) Independent Equity Research Report From Morgan Stanley Concludes CDMA2000 Operators are Leading In 3G

    Business Editors & High-Tech Writers

    COSTA MESA, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Aug. 5, 2002--


    Availability, Reliability, Device Accessibility and Economics Give CDMA2000 Operators Competitive Edge

    A recent independent equity research report on wireless technologies from Morgan Stanley, a global financial services firm and a market leader in securities, investment management and credit services, placed CDMA2000 in the leading position for delivering 3G services.

    Research conducted for this report was based on real-world operator experiences in Asia, the only region to have commercially available, co-existing 2.5G and 3G technologies including GPRS, W-CDMA, CDMA2000 1X and CDMA2000 1xEV-DO. An executive summary of the report titled "Wireless Technology: Who is ahead?" can be viewed on the CDMA Development Group's (CDG) Web site at www.cdg.org.

    "Morgan Stanley's extensive research concluded that CDMA2000 operators are ahead of their counterparts in offering commercial 3G services," said Luiz Carvalho, managing director of wireless for Morgan Stanley. "The contributing factors to the success of CDMA2000 are the ease of migration, low capex requirements, backward compatibility allowing seamless roaming between 2G and 3G networks and lower handset pricing."

    According to the report, key benefits of CDMA2000 compared with other 3G technologies include:

    -- Economics -- CDMA2000 requires lower capex for data network upgrades. In Japan, KDDI will invest less than 25 percent of the capital to migrate to CDMA2000 1xEV-DO than NTT DoCoMo will spend on building their W-CDMA network. Similarly, in the United States, Sprint PCS will spend $8 per POP to implement CDMA2000 1xEV-DV while other operators will have to invest three times that amount to upgrade to W-CDMA.
    -- Economies of scale -- Morgan Stanley expects 25 million CDMA2000 1X handsets to ship versus 3.4 million W-CDMA handsets worldwide by year-end 2002. The higher volumes translate into lower costs for handsets.
    -- Capacity -- Capacity gains of CDMA2000 1X technology lead to much lower capex for operators when compared with other technologies.

    A significant finding of the survey was that CDMA2000 delivers higher revenues for operators. KT Freetel announced that color screen CDMA2000 1X users generate 380 percent more data ARPU and 54 percent higher total revenue than their 2G subscribers. SK Telecom also recently reported that higher ARPU from 3G Internet and data services contributed to a 39 percent increase in revenue and 42 percent increase in net profits for the first half of 2002.

    "Morgan Stanley's independent analysis of 3G technologies underscores that CDMA2000 is clearly leading in the delivery of 3G," said Perry LaForge, executive director, CDG. "The higher revenues, lower investment and ease of migration that CDMA2000 technologies offer make a compelling business case for operators to migrate to 3G. CDMA2000 will continue to build on this momentum in the coming months with additional commercial deployments, new devices and high-margin applications becoming available."

    The CDG reports that there are 16 commercial 3G CDMA2000 networks with a global subscriber base of more than 13 million. Additionally, there are more than 124 devices providing wireless users access to 3G applications including multimedia messaging, full-color music videos, camera and motion video functionality, Internet broadcasts and animation downloaded at up to 144 Kbps on CDMA2000 networks.

    CDMA2000 1xEV-DO, commercially deployed by KT Freetel and SK Telecom in Korea, allows mobile users to experience the mobile Internet and rich multimedia applications at higher data speed up to 2.4 Mbps -- more than six times the speed of competing third-generation systems.

    The CDMA Development Group is a nonprofit trade association formed to foster the worldwide development, implementation and use of cdmaOne(TM) and CDMA2000. The 110 member companies of the CDG include many of the world's largest wireless operators and equipment manufacturers.

    The primary activities of the CDG include development of CDMA features and services, public relations, education and seminars, regulatory affairs and international support. Currently, there are more than 500 individuals working within various CDG subcommittees on CDMA-related matters.

    For more information about the CDG, contact Valerie Christopherson of the CDG News Bureau at 714/540-1030, ext. 14, e-mail vchristopherson@bockpr.com, or visit the CDG Web site at www.cdg.org.

    Note to Editors: cdmaOne is a trademark of the CDG.
    The Morgan Stanley "Wireless Technology: Who is ahead?" equity research report was released June 10, 2002.
     
  29. Guest

    Guest Guest

    and why does this article only talk about Cdma, that's probably why they placed them in the leading position for delivering 3G service
     
  30. Kenny

    Kenny Senior Member
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    What the hell are you talking about???

    GSM/GPRS carriers will eventually go with UMTS (synonomous with W-CDMA) and that is why the article is talking about W-CDMA versus CDMA2000. Do you get the picture now?

    GSM/GPRS carriers --> 3G path via UMTS/W-CDMA (Wideband CDMA)
    CDMA carriers --> 3G path via CDMA2000 (Narrowband CDMA)

    Therefore the article is referencing not the technologies of the past but up & coming 3G developments of these carriers which happens to be 2 different flavors of CDMA (W-CDMA versus CDMA2000)!!!

    One of the reasons why they look at Japan and S. Korea is because they are steps ahead of us and may provide some insight into what lies ahead down the road in the U.S. as far as W-CDMA versus CDMA2000. Once again, we are talking about the up & coming 3G goal whereby GSM/GPRS carriers will follow via UMTS/W-CDMA and CDMA carriers taking the CDMA2000 path....and so naturally the article is referencing the future.
     

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