Recent word on T-mobile Cingular?

Wright now they are still talking but there is a problem with T-mobile because they have too much debt of 60 billion dollars any they want cingular to take half of the debt load you will hear about more of this in Jan2003.CINGULAR ROCKS

 

Jason, that's untrue. T-Mobile USA (which is the only company involved in any potential transaction) does NOT have $60B in debt. That figure is the debt of the parent company, Deutsche Telekom. T-Mobile USA does have debt, of course. A lot of the debt DT has relates to their overpayment for VoiceStream in 2000, but not all of it. Perhaps half, probably a bit less.

RIT: There is no new "news" only the occasional rehash of the rumors from early September.

 

your right but they are still in talks as we speak but they will be no annoucement untill Jan2003,also the parent company D.t. has a debt they need to get out of the U.S. market because they are not making money!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!CINGULAR ROCKS!!!

 

According to Wirelessweek.com Cingular and Deutche Telecom are in talks discussing the merger/sale of T-Mobile USA with Cingular. Two major issues are 1) DT's insistance in unloading 5-6 billion in euro debt into the deal and 2)maintaining a non-dilutable ownership position regardless of stock issuance. If it was me I'd say get lost, those 2 conditions would overburden the new company with too much debt with no way to relieve it.

CInsider

 

Jason obviously speaking with an uneducated and bias perspective. Look at net gains for Q3 for all wireless companies. T-Mobile coming in at over 800 million, Verizon at close to 550 million, ATT at 65 million while Sprint, Nextel and CINGULAR (12 million in losses) all reporting losses. Its undenyable that T-Mobile is hot right now and its only direction its headed is up. Cingular Rollover, honestly who is that benefitting, its a great marketing strategy that has produced little results in the big picture. Who does it benifet honestly??

 

secretuncle, I think you're talking about subscriber additions? If so, it would be 'thousands' not 'millions'

 

T-Mobile didn't gain 800 million anything in Q3. They will have to shell out more money than probably all other carriers combined if they want to build a GSM network on their own (like Sprint did with PCS CDMA) that rivals any other carrier's coverage. AT&T and Cingular will have GSM networks that rival if not exceed T-Mobile's because these carriers already have established towers. All they have to do is upgrade the equipment. T-Mobile has to go through the planning, negotiating, and building stages to thicken its network.

I'll repeat what I've said before: T-Mobile's only hope of long-term survival is a free GSM roam agreement with AT&T and/or Cingular, or a merger with one of those companies.

BTW, Cingular Rollover...sure, like every other promotion, it's a marketing strategy. But isn't it admittedly a nice feature? I bet a lot of people wish their minutes rolled over for that month or 2 where they need some extra time if they're traveling or something.

 

we did have a lot of customer asking for the rollover minutes last month, we did good here in my store (CT) with that promo, but a lot of customer was asking for rollover on the nation plans now that we have it nobody is asking for it, maybe it will get better at the end of the month.

 

And I'll repeat what I said before. T-Mobile's GSM network TODAY is 92% of AT&T's TDMA network, and is still significantly larger than their GSM network. And that doesn't include free roaming! Cingular, I believe, only owns licenses to 81% of the country, so even if they had every license they own covered today with the same digital standard, T-Mobile would be 90% of Cingular TODAY. Of course, Cingular is a mix so that last statement isn't even worth discussing. AT&T will be playing catchup to T-Mobile GSM for the near future. Maybe not forever, but it's clear if you actually take tihe time to do an analysis, that BOTH the T-Mobile and AT&T GSM networks will be of similar size once AT&T completes their GSM buildout. Remember, AT&T only has TDMA coverage to 224 million right now, and T-M is at 207. Both companies need to add millions more in coverage to complete the buildout of their licenses.

Sprint has the largest all-digital network. I believe they claim 260 million covered digital POPS.

 

Matt that is why I will take Verizon any day over ATT or T-Mobile. I do like TM though, just that their coverage would not reach my mom's house and our sister city, Clayton, but my hometown would be covered since we next to the highway(ATT TDMA and GSM are equally crappy, both 1900). So Verizon it is for me! Too bad I do not see this changing any time soon with T-Mobile, since they would only add maybe 90000 people and they would need probably 20 towers to do it, and it's probably not cost effective. ATT will probably ride on Cingular's back in lower Delaware for forever on its TDMA and future GSM coverage. I don't get it, Nextel and Sprint had to build their networks and they cover the state well!

 

ok lets see if i can shed some light on the current situation.well as it stands DT and Cingular our still in talks no deff just hinting at a deal.Which may or maynot happen after the first of year.This will either be an out right buy or a merger . The benifits of a buy out would be that DT would have more hard currency to off set thier debt.The benifits of a merger would be that DT would still be part of a company that is in forward growth which in the long term would be great.The problem about merger is that the german people want resultes now now now not later.So that may or may not be a deciding factor.Otherwise a merger is more likely.What ever they decide i have to concure that Jan will be an intresting month.I have to say that i do not believe that they will do nothing because other wise there was no reason to get rid of Ron Sommer since that was his plan and see where that got him. And he got a nice severnce deal to boot.(i wouldnt mind runing T-moblie for a little bit to get the money he got to be fired)

 

This opinion suggests Cingular may merge, whatever
with TMobile AND AT&T Wireless


http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/oct2002/tc20021011_2022.htm

OCTOBER 11, 2002

STREET WISE
By Olga Kharif

Waiting for the Wireless Mergers
The battered sector is poised for a wave of consolidation. The Baby Bells' progeny, Cingular and Verizon Wireless, are likely to fare best

The wireless industry has been in deep trouble for the past year. Subscriber growth, once leaping at 50% annually, has slowed to 8.4% and is expected to stay near that level through 2005, according to Morgan Stanley analyst Luiz Carvalho. When third-quarter figures are released, two of the Big Six national service providers -- Sprint PCS and Cingular -- are expected to report that their customer bases have shrunk.

Considering that most service providers won't turn profits until late 2003 at the earliest, the outlook remains decidedly gloomy. Long-suffering investors have made no secret of their dismay: The Philadelphia Wireless Telecom Index, which includes wireless-service providers and equipment makers, has plunged 70% since the start of 2002. Yet, wireless outfits are far from dead -- and their stocks seem capable of rising once again.

The good news: Both the number and the duration of cell-phone calls continue to rise. And if Europe is any guide, the U.S. market is far from saturated. On the Continent, roughly 70% of the population owns cell phones, vs. 48% in the U.S. However, as subscriber numbers grow, profits will remain elusive until overcapacity is wrung out of the system. Right now, there are just too many wireless players -- a fact brought into sharp focus by per-minute prices, which have been dropping at an average rate of 6.5% a quarter.

CUE TO BUY? Consolidation among the biggest providers, which analysts expect to begin almost at a moment's notice, should reverse the pricing slide, according to Yankee Group marketing consultancy. The day a big merger is announced could mark the bottom for the sector, says Michael Mahoney, portfolio manager for EGM Communications & Technology, a hedge fund in San Francisco that doesn't hold any wireless shares.

Given today's bargain-basement stock prices, some investors will likely take any announcement that the consolidation is under way as their cue to buy. That logic certainly appeals to Invesco Telecommunications (ISWCX ) fund manager Brian Hayward, who oversees $321 million in assets. He sees the fund's wireless holdings, which now represent 15% of the total portfolio, "going higher in the next 6 months to 12 months."

The key here is betting on long-term winners: companies that will benefit from the wave of mergers that should reduce the six national players to a mere three, perhaps four at most. Analysts reason that the survivors will have the resources to hold on through a few more years of turbulence as the industry claws its way toward the promised land of profitability.

THEN AND NOW. The most likely winners, sector-watchers say, are Verizon Wireless and Cingular -- businesses supported by Baby Bells. Neither outfit yet trades separately from its local-calling parents. Market leader Verizon Wireless, with 30.3 million subscribers, is is a joint venture between telecom giants Verizon (VZ ) and Vodafone (VOD ). And No. 2 national carrier, Cingular, is a joint venture between SBC Communications (SBC ) and BellSouth (BLS ), with results reported on both parent companies' financial statements.

Investing indirectly in these wireless players would mark a break from the norms that applied when subscriber growth was booming. Back then, investors picked independent, publicly traded wireless outfits rather than, say, Verizon, where growth has been constrained by its core business of local calling.

Analysts now tend to the view that the wireless business could become the main growth engine for Verizon's stock, which closed on Oct. 10 at $32.95, well down on its 52-week high of $49.99. Even if wireless units increase revenues only by percentages in the high single digits, they should still grow faster than the parents' core businesses. An added plus: Wireless is replacing regular phone service. About 3% of the U.S. population has forsaken land lines in favor of cell-phone service, according to industry insiders.

LIFE SUPPORT. And Verizon's local-calling business is a cash cow. Verizon should report earnings per diluted share for the year of $3.05 to $3.09, according to its Oct. 1 guidance. The Baby Bell also has nearly $3 billion in cash (and $45 billion in long-term debt, which is high, but not out of line with the industry). According to Invesco's Hayward, whose fund holds Verizon shares, the core local-calling business can help keep the unprofitable wireless unit afloat until it makes it into the black at some point in the next few years, when he expects it to crush its smaller rivals.

Similar logic applies to Cingular. While everything isn't rosy with its two parents -- on Oct. 8, SBC said that 2002 earnings will come in at the low end of previous guidance -- both outfits remain profitable. The Street expects SBC to report $2.26 a share in yearly earnings, excluding one-time charges. Cingular, which has 22 million subscribers and is widely perceived as being unprofitable, could be the main beneficiary of the anticipated mergers. Eventually, analysts say, it could rival Verizon Wireless in size.

According to reports, Cingular might be a candidate to acquire No. 6 carrier T-Mobile, a unit of Deutsche Telekom (DT ), perhaps in a matter of weeks. And some analysts believe Cingular might also have an eye on merging with the third-largest player, AT&T Wireless (AWE ).

THREE OPTIONS. While both AT&T and Verizon declined to comment on merger speculation, a spokeswoman for the latter, Brenda Raney, did say: "We are realistic about the industry. We realize customers have lots of choices. And we provide our customers with very good service." At Nextel Communications (NXTL ), spokeswoman Elizabeth Brooks says three options will be considered -- remaining independent, a merger, or acquiring other companies.

SBC's stock hit a 52-week low of $19.57 on Sept. 30. Its price of $21.25, as of the closing bell on Oct. 10, is down almost 50% on its year-ago high of $39.17. Its Cingular partner, BellSouth, is also profitable -- issuing guidance for $2.06 to $2.13 in earnings per share for the year. BellSouth closed on Oct. 10 at $22.17, down from $39.11 a year ago.

Industry cheerleaders still champion the independents, such as AT&T Wireless, which with $3.8 billion in cash and $10.7 billion in debt, has the strongest balance sheet of any public wireless-service provider. But while AT&T Wireless might post a positive cash flow next year, it faces more difficulties upgrading its network than do rivals.

<snip>

 

fyi, cingular just got a merger with samsung , and for some "unknown" time next year, we will have new gsm phones. samsung makes some pretty cool phones....

 

from what i have heard the merger is a definite and is being planned for over a year now. so it is just a matter of WHEN and not if...

 

Cingular/Samsung was just an agreement to sell phones, including an exclusive.

click here

Cingular/TMO is a rumor that is probably two years old in some links....nothing new has been stated.

 

Probably because there were rumours about Cingular merging with VoiceStream. VoiceStream changed their name to T-Mobile. Voila, easy.

I think we'd hear a lot more definite and a lot less untrammelled rumour if it were nigh.

 

Right. T-Mobile has owned VS since June 2001, they just got around to changing the name now.

 

Hi there everyone, I'm new here, just wanted to leave some input on the whole debate. Up until today I was a cingular customer for over 6 years. Within that time, I never really experienced many problems, until two years ago. Within the last two years, it's been a nightmare, losing two contracts, overbilling me, "accidently" dropping service, cancelling services, and so on. I've never had to deal with such incompetent costomer service in my life. I've now switched to t-mobile, whom, upon sign-up, gave me a free SonyEricsson T300, a free 20" TV, and free internet (t-zones), also immediately gave me a $10 credit on my first bill, not to mention, alot of other free stuff, and services. Their 24 hour customer service is AWESOME, almost no wait time. I would highly recommend t-mobile to anybody, their rate plans are even a better value than cingulars( my friend had the rollover plan, they lost his minutes, again, incompetence). When I told cingular I was switching to t-mobile, the rep said "why bother, we're gonna be buying them out, you'll be with cingular again in a few months". I hope this is not the case, as even the signal is better with my t-mobile service within MA and RI, not to mention how quickly you can send images with t-mobile. Overall, dealing with cingular is a nightmare, and I hope my decision to go with t-mobile will not cause me to live this nightmare again.

 

I'm also new, but I also agree whole heartedly that Tmobile would be doing its subscribers a grave disjustice by letting Cingular buy them out. Where I am located you can't even get a signal with Cingular, however with Tmobile it has always been crystal clear. Also, better customer service, rate plans, phones, need I go on. Two people in my household have Cingular and two have Tmobile, which by far beats Cingulars service. I have also taken my phone all over the country and never had problems. What are the chances of this merge? And if it is reality when do you predict it would take place?

 

Cingular is just a name. It doesn't mean that if your service is T-Mobile and the merger occurs then it will go downhill. Wake up guys, service will stay the same!

 

Ultimately they're going to do what they want, regardless of the impact upon the customers.....

 

I have no idea how old the rumor is but the other day I was shoping in a Best Buy store in Manchester Connecticut. When I walked by the cell phones the Cingular sales man approched me and asked if I had a cell phone and who my provider was. I told him yes, Cingular. He asked if i was happy with my service and I said, yea, but when are we going to get pocket PC phones like these pointing to Sprint's and mentioning T-mobile's. He said soon, End of Feb when they go GSM and merge with T-mobile. There was also a T-mobil sales man right behind him. So i have no idea if he was just going on rumors or corporate info, which is what lead me to this sight.

 

we just have to wait and see...no big news yet.

 

February? did he say what year?...LOL

 

As far as I know, T-Mobile, who was once Voicestream, is owned by the German mega-phone company Deütsche Telekom AG. There are T-Mobile carriers (name branded) in England, Germany, Austria, Poland, and just about the other half of Europe as well. So, its not that they are a small carrier, I believe they are the largest name branded carrier in the world, but I might be wrong. I know ATT is the largest in North America, since they have ATT in the USA, and Rogers ATT in Canada, dominating most of North America. Its still Verizon thats the largest American provider however.
As for T-Mobile having free roaming agreements, since GSM is a network so many companies are catching on to (mostly the former TDMA companies who know TDMA was crap to begin with) its not hard to see why they all would say to eachother..."Hey lets make free roaming agreements with (company Y), and build a larger network, and grab subscribers, in exchange for the use of your (company X) towers"
It promotes a win - win situation for everyone. The downfall, is that some of the providers for GSM are sneaky, and dont support eachother in selected areas. I dont know why, or where, or what the support entails, but Ive heard words spread around.

My roommate is with T-Mobile (formerly with Voicestream) and Im with Sprint PCS (formerly ATT, and Verizon), she loves the sound quality of my phone, and really, the only thing I like about hers is...well..its T-Mobile, a new company, thats european, and operates on a different network. There really isnt much differenct that made me want T-Mobile other then that. Sure she can roam in Europe, but there are selected countries, and areas even in the USA, that Im allowed to pick a signal from, and use, or roam off network. So its a total compromise what you want...I guess.. I dont know, I only go to Mexico, and Canada...Both of which I know use CDMA.

Anyway, point being, if it wasnt for free roaming agreements, none of the GSM companies would be in business, or even have wide coverage.....for an example, see Cellular One, AllTel, and US Cellular (they are TDMA but they suck in coverage)

 

Cingular is a joint venture between SBC Communications and BellSouth. Given what DT paid for VoiceStream, the merger just doesn't make sense, i don't think the two RBOCs are in any shape, financially or otherwise, to assume any kind of responsibility T-Mobile USA requires. As far as DT buying Cingular? Not a chance, why would DT take on more debt to acquire an outdated TDMA system?