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Discussion in 'GENERAL Wireless Discussion' started by larry, Jun 22, 2005.
I agree with you Critic, the new look for Sprint is a nice touch and a much long needed change.
The new Sprint bus commercials can now use real yellow school buses now. It will fit in perfectly.
This is going to be one rough ride for theese two companies. They better have alot of cash now and be willing to operate at a loss for a year or more because honestly thats what it is going to take to get it right. If they don't get it right for a year or more and Cingular is STILL striaght trippin then Verizon is going to have a HUGE advantage over there competition.
I beleive they have learned from others about doing buyouts,mergers wrong.Cingular is making former att customers mad left and right.I think Cingular is in bad financial shape right now and are loosing customers.I know they lost my 4 phones because of their horrible service.I switched to Sprint and they got my 4 lines.
Larry, what about billing system integration issues and billing practices (rate plans, bundled services, data services, etc.)? As is readily apparent with Cingular, this can be a big headache! Even thought there may not be any major network issues because of their differences, at some point there will be an "integration" and that can be problematic. I also wonder when the cost of the merger will take its toll on the company and cause rate plan changes and hiked fees.
Not sure about the billing integration or when or if that's going to happen. I don't think it will lead to hiked to fees though. The merger will actually bring in a huge savings to the company in the long run so I think that part will be offset any merger costs.
It's definitely a bold logo... I like it!!! Thanks for the info...
Hopefully those stupid bus commercials will just go away.
Will you come back to Sprint if they do??
I just might do that!
That's what Cingular said too & look at there new rate plans. I have a feeling as they move further unless there is some competition from the other carriers rate plans may start going up and all the carriers may slowly follow suit to see there ARPU go up as the shareholders want, I just hope not.
LOL! I can't wait to see the guy in the trenchcoat come out of a school bus!
I agree with Fire14. Cingular said the same thing. In fact, they had me sick with the word "Synergies" (did I spell it right?). So in the meantime, don't expect potential savings to occur. It will take at least a couple of years to complete the merger and in the meantime they will need cash for integration costs which won't lead to lower prices during integration time. Only after the merger is truly completed there might be some hope for competitive pricing. The high costs of integration will quickly deplete revenue which will lead to smaller margins, if not negative income. Of course, they should be able to pull out of the mud and come afloat in the future, but don't expect shiny roses during the next couple of years.
I'm not worried as long as i have my grandfathered deal.
The way I read things is that Sprint and Nextel will be run, for the time being, as two separate companies... so billing system integration shouldn't be needed. Until a customer migrates from iDEN to CDMA, they stay on the Nextel billing system and a Nextel plan; when they change handsets, they go onto the Sprint system with a Sprint plan (maybe they get a Nextel logo on their bill or something if Sprint wants to keep the name around for a certain segment, or if they're on a PTT plan, or something, e.g. if they have "Sprint Direct Connect powered by Nextel" or whatever EV-DO ReadyLink is going to be marketed as).
Eventually you have a cutoff date, iDEN is shut off, and Nextel's billing system -- along with the rest of Nextel that isn't absorbed into Sprint's operations -- just goes away.
The technological incompatibility--and the ability to keep both names around--makes this far simpler than the whole Cingular Blue versus Orange thing, where you have to integrate things to gain synergy. Sprint Nextel isn't about integration, it's about (eventually) shutting down a legacy iDEN system while upgrading the existing Sprint CDMA system using Nextel's extra spectrum and intellectual property licenses. The only real integration is on the tower side (to gradually cut down iDEN and phase-in CDMA in the SMR spectrum).
just an update my dad went ahead and signed up with VZW today now he can call me any time
What phone did he get and how is it working out for him so far?
They will most likely start trying to do some type of converged family plans or combined cdma iden accounts (someone in marketing will not be able to resist putting together something like this.) Their IT people are going to be calling in sick quite a bit.
Hehe...FYI this is exactly what Cingular/AT&T are doing!
To prove it, in the next bold paragraphs I am using your own text, just substituting the word Nextel for AWS and Sprint for Cingular.
The way I read things is that Cingular and AWS will be run, for the time being, as two separate companies... so billing system integration shouldn't be needed. Until a customer migrates from AWS to Cingular, they stay on the AWS billing system and a AWS plan; when they change handsets, they go onto the Cingular system with a Cingular plan.
Eventually you have a cutoff date, AWS is shut off, and AWS billing system --along with the rest of AWS that isn't absorbed into Cingular's operations -- just goes away. The only real integration is on the tower side.... where AWS towers are simply converted to Cingular towers reusing the same spectrum and technology (but likely not the same hardware!). But tower by tower, just like Sprint will do with Nextel, Cingular will have to disconnect them from the AWS side and reconnect them to the Cingular side. Also, on the network end, Sprint will have to identify which towers will be redundant and eliminate them just like Cingular is doing. If you have a Sprint tower 1/4 mile away from a Nextel tower, I guarantee you one of them is gotta go!
This is just explained in "grandma's" terms. The details, wouldn't fit in this page.
The fact that Cingular had to give up AWS brand is really only a sales/marketing issue which really doesn't complicate the merger process anymore than it will do Sprint/Nextel. You won't see separate Sprint and Nextel stores. You will see Nextel stores re-branded to the new look and feel of Sprint, just like AWS stores were rebranded to reflect Cingular's look and feel. Sprint will simply have Nextel's name added to the Sprint brand, but the store remodelation process will be similar to what Cingular did, although maybe not as quick as Cingular did it. And just like Cingular is shutting down some stores, you will see some Nextel stores disappear as well.
The only difference I see is that probably Sprint will continue selling Nextel products for a much longer time than Cingular sold AWS products. And just like Cingular has obsorbed and integrated some of AWS products and services into its own product line (GoPhone, Premier Business Group, SMT-5600...) you will probably see Sprint taking some Nextel products and integrating them into their own (PTT comes to mind).
If anything the incompatibility between Sprint and Nextel spectrum will be a burden to synergies because none of the CDMA phones is currently capable of using SMR spectrum even after you add CDMA to that SMR spectrum. Likewise, iDEN phones can't use any of the PCS bands even if you added iDEN to the PCS band. This will translate into money poured into R&D and manufacturing to develop proprietary and more expensive PCS/SMR phones which will have less economies of scale than Nextel's own phones! On the other hand, Cingular/AWS are using compatible spectrum which makes possible for all existing customers to be able to automatically use both sides of the spectrum (Cingular and AWS) without requiring a special phone. That's much easier in terms of integration if you ask me, because customers don't need to get new phones to take advantage of the integrated network.
And let's not forget load balancing issues Sprint will run into just like Cingular. One customer can move from the Nextel to the Sprint side and Sprint will be able to handle it just fine. But what happens when 5 million Nextel customers migrate over to the Sprint side? Sprint will better make sure each and everyone has a new phone that can take advantage of BOTH sides of the spectrum, or else they will overload the Sprint side before they know it! Cingular is not so concerned with making sure everyone has a ENS phone for load balancing. Plus, ENS phones are not an absolute requirement to be able to use both the blue and orange side and will not be a requirement at all once the networks are integrated. With Sprint, PCS/SMR phones will continue being a requirement even after the merger is completed if you want to take advantage of both sides.
The Cingular/ATT merger is running into ugliness. Sprint and Nextel MIGHT just be smart enough to have learned from Cingular's mistakes.
The current market situation creates an AMAZING oppurtunity for VZW in that they don't have to deal with these headaches. They can concentrate on problems they are more familliar with.
I think we all feel Cingular is making some mistakes in the customer relationship area of the merger. But does that really mean they are headed for disaster and chaos? I don't think so.
I am not saying they are headed for disaster. and they had a very strong 1st quater. What I am saying is they have not and will not be doing as well as at least I felt that they could. And Verizon has kept improving in there level of performance.
I think that this is a very good rivalry between 800lb gorilla's and thought Cingular has an advantage numbers wise VZW is still the best performer in the game.
I agree. But what I mean is their performance is not as good as before primarily because customer relations concerns. Many blue customers are not happy because they feel Cingular is forcing them to migrate while some others feel they are stuck and cannot migrate (ironic, right?). Most of the times this is due to misinformation given out by Cingular's own reps. This creates churn.
Another reason they won't be doing as well is because Cingular is getting overloaded in several markets and they are barely catching up with the growing demand. Towers are going up everyday but not as fast as the market needs. Therefore, Cingular raises prices to slow down demand. Maybe if they weren't so busy with 3G and the merger they would have more money left over for quicker network expansion. This is exactly where Verizon just sits down and has a big laugh!
I like the new logo as opposed to the old logo... but then I'm a Steelers, Penguins and Pirates fan so yellow and black is always good with me.
Fair enough, but Cingular-AWS does have--as you say--the marketing issue. There are no technical reasons why a "Blue" customer can't be an "Orange" customer or vice versa... just bureaucratic nonsense that annoys customers. By keeping both brands around, Sprint Nextel minimizes the marketing problems and customer confusion, and they don't have to move anyone on a particular timetable.
Sure, the technical side has speed bumps, but given that all the Nextel folks are going to get new phones anyway, you can give them the right phones for the PCS G spectrum, which should accomodate all the added customers on the CDMA side; you don't even need to deploy CDMA in the SMR band until iDEN is completely off.
And, as NYCDru points out, the problems Cingular has encountered can be avoided by Sprint Nextel. Of course, there will be new problems too (particularly if SN tries to be too fancy or move too fast), and at least Cingular didn't have the problem of the Partners/affiliates situation, but such is life.
he got the Nokia 6015I and so far he loves it he called me from his new cell and it sounded like he was on a land line compared to his Cingular phone and he had major issues with Cingular CS too. I told him to be sure to try out his phone at as many places as he could during the trial period but I don't foresee any major service issues because he uses his phone in pretty much the same areas that I do and I am a happy VZW customer coming up on 2 years this October
I think you hit the 2 main problems right on the head bobolito, Reps give out too much bad information, which to me is a training problem & the reps trying to deal with 2 seperate systems to handle the customers and the other big problem is area's becoming overloaded, I think some area's like ours will see TDMA shut down sooner then later for the added spectrum to help solve these problems & they should have stuck with the integration 1st then the 3G upgrade & that they did raise the rates to slow down migrations & new add's till they get the overload problems fixed.
True...there are some concerns about customer confusion, especially since AT&T Corp. plans to launch its own MVNO. The confusion can create some minor issues in terms of sales at both Cingular and the new AT&T MVNO. However, that's about all I see in terms of problems with the Cingular/AWS merger, and this particular issue isn't even directly related to the merger because the confusion lies in the customers, not in the company's ability to execute the merger and any such confusion has no potential to slow down the merger process or reduce any synergies.
Other than that, Cingular doesn't have a timetable to migrate blue customers to the orange side. Only network integration has a timetable. You can stay blue for as long as you like.
RCR Wireless News
By: DAN MEYER
AT&T backs off MVNO plans
RCR Wireless News
AT&T Corp.'s convoluted plans to re-enter the wireless space have taken a detour. The company has nixed its previously announced mobile virtual network operator plans with Sprint Corp. and postponed a possible launch through soon-to-be-acquirer SBC Communications Inc.'s wireless subsidiary.
AT&T said the decision to end the MVNO plans with Sprint were made following AT&T's recent announcement that it was being acquired by SBC for $16 billion. SBC owns 60 percent of the industry's largest wireless operator, Cingular Wireless L.L.C., with BellSouth Corp. controlling the other 40 percent.
An AT&T spokesman added that while the company has no current plans to re-enter the wireless space, AT&T still sees value in providing a wireless option for its business-centric customer base.
``This action does not change our intent to deliver mobility services, as we believe we have a unique value proposition for our enterprise customers,'' said AT&T spokesman Gary Morgenstern.
Morgenstern did not elaborate on what those mobility plans could include, though AT&T offers Wi-Fi services as part of its wireline telecom package.
The original MVNO deal with Sprint, announced last May, called for AT&T to launch wireless service using Sprint's network. AT&T was expected to use some variation of the AT&T Wireless brand name. At the time of the Sprint/MVNO announcement, AT&T said it was testing the Sprint-backed service in six markets and that it planned to launch service by the end of 2004. The MVNO was expected to target AT&T's business customers, though the company said it was also looking at a consumer play.
Analysts were not surprised by AT&T's desire to re-enter the wireless space, noting it was a much faster-growing segment than traditional wireline services. In addition, AT&T has a long and storied history in wireless, and the brand has strong name recognition.
Those plans were hijacked earlier this year following SBC's deal to acquire AT&T. At the time, AT&T Chairman Richard Dorman said that the company still planned to launch a wireless service later this year, and the company was interested in working with Cingular for the offering.
Analysts said they expected SBC's acquisition of AT&T would cancel AT&T's MVNO plans with Sprint as SBC would be most interested in keeping any wireless business in-house. A possible Cingular-backed MVNO would also provide AT&T with access to a GSM-based network that would ease the transition of former AWS customers to Cingular's network, as well as provide AT&T with a deeper international offering favored by enterprise customers.
Since its acquisition of AWS, Cingular has slowly moved into the MVNO market, signing deals with a handful of companies, including 7-Eleven and Firefly Mobile Inc. A proposed MVNO with regional telecom provider CenturyTel Inc. was halted in April due to network coverage issues.
While SBC could still launch wireless services using the AT&T brand name and Cingular's wireless network, some analysts don't expect that path to be followed anytime soon.
``I think it's difficult enough for BellSouth, SBC and Cingular to agree on a mix of services for enterprise customers,'' said Mitch Mitchell, vice president of A.T. Kearney's communications and media practice. ``Adding AT&T to the mix is like having a fourth family member fighting over the same drumstick.''
Others noted that while the BellSouth/SBC/Cingular/AT&T jumble probably will take some time to work through, the AT&T brand name still has enough clout to warrant a possible branded offering.
``The AT&T brand is just too strong for SBC to not utilize in some way for either wireline or wireless services,'' said Patrick Zerbib, vice president of Adventis Corp.'s wireless practice.
LOL!....you got me there. I guess there won't be any brand confusion in the end.