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New CDMA Nokias

Discussion in 'NOKIA' started by Airb330, Jun 17, 2002.

  1. Airb330

    Airb330 Silver Senior Member
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    Ok, that 8270 looks pretty nice. Why can't Verizon ask for a phone like this (tri-band of course). No freakin attenna in the way, with great looks! Hopefully the 3585 gets this right, it is tri-band, I hope Verizon picks it up!
     
  2. Jack

    Jack Silver Senior Member
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    Airb330

    We can only hope

    Jack
     
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  3. cryogenic

    cryogenic Bronze Senior Member
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    It's been my understanding that Verizon has a policy against carrying phones with strictly internal antennas... I heard it from one of the Verizon reps around here, but who knows if that's actually fact or just an excuse they used.... anyone work for Verizon and actually know whether this is fact or BS?
     
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  4. ComicalMoodyDan

    ComicalMoodyDan Gold Senior Member
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    cryogenic, I believe you are right. Verizon only uses pull out antenna's because they claim they peform better.
     
  5. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I heard the same. Verizon Wireless only carries phones with extendable antennas.
     
  6. Airb330

    Airb330 Silver Senior Member
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    According to Phonescoop.com that 3585 does have a retractable antenna, but bu looking at the pictures I don't see it. Now, this sucks, but when it is time to get a new phone (next summer), I might just go with someone else due to the frickin antenna. I'll be in college and I want a small phone to put in my pocket.
     
  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Verizon claims the extendable antennas are better because its more revenue for them when you break them. When you break them, most people go back to the Verizon store to buy new ones. My friend worked at a Verizon store a while back. He said like 20-30 people, sometimes more on weekends, came in daily to replace their Startac antennas. They are money hungry! You ever see how much they charge for phone accessories on their website? You can get th products they sell much cheaper elsewhere.

    I'm a verizon customer and I love their service...great here in NYC, but as far as products, they're just money hungry!!!!!

    JOE
     
  8. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    Wrong! The 8270 is NOT a Tri-band phone. It's only 1900Mhz CDMA so Sprint may use it if they want. Verizon won't sell single band phones because they work on both 800 and 1900 bands so the 8270 is out of the question for them. I believe Cricket sells it though. Only CDMA 1900 single band phones can have internal or stubby antennas. Only tri-band CDMA phones have to have a retractable antenna. I don't think it has to do with Verizon policies. Other CDMA companies overseas that won't follow the same practices as Verizon sell the same types of phones and won't offer multi-band CDMA with internal or stub antennas. Whatever else Verizon reps claim they either don't know what they are talking about or are just excuses they are taught to tell people. Too much coincidence that all CDMA multi-band carriers have the same policies for antennas.
     
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  9. Guest

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    It's Motorola's antenna dept that is greedy and not Verizon. Look at the antennas for the StarTac, v120c, & v60c. All are engineered to break. Verizon sells the replacement antennas for $9.99. Motorola sells them for over $20. Who is the greedy one?

    PS 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999% of antennas that break are on Motorola phones.
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You would expect to have a much stronger, durable antenna on the v60c after you shell out some $250 on it....wouldn't it make sense?


    JOE
     
  11. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    Yeah it's a Verizon thing with the retractable antennas, because the v60g that Voicestream has, has a stubby antenna (non-retractabe). The rectractable antennas don't do anything, they only move the signal up and down; They don't catch more signal or anything.
     
  12. Airb330

    Airb330 Silver Senior Member
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    Aiwa you are wrong. I am sorta in a fringe area....and pulling out my antenna helps the conversation greatly! I never said the 8270 was triband I dont think anyone did, nor did we say Verizon would ever carry it. I just hope they carry the 3585, which fits Verizon's specification.
     
  13. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    Well that's what a Voicestream direct manager told me. Maybe it's only that way because they make it that way. A stub would probably work just like an antenna that is pulled up. The internal antenna on my 3390 gets better recption than many phones with external antannas, both retractable and non-retractable. I know for a fact it gets better reception than the v120 that Verizon has, because my friend has it, and we both work inside of a museum with a copper roof, and there is a certain spot that we can test are reception, and mine always comes out on top.
     
  14. ComicalMoodyDan

    ComicalMoodyDan Gold Senior Member
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    Pulling out a retractable antenna with a CDMA phone such as those avaible from ALLTEL and Verizon do make a difference when you are in a weak area. My house was always a weak spot for my granny's cell phone and when the antenna was down the conversation on her ALLTEL phone would get very garbled, however pull up the anteanna and it usually cleared up. I had even seen her phone back when she had it sometimes go up one bar when the antenna was pulled out.
     
  15. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    We are not debating whether or not pulling out an antenna makes a difference in reception or not. We all know that indeed it does make a difference ever since the days we got our first transistor radio. The subject at hand here is why only multiband CDMA phones have to have retractable antennas but others don't have to. Again, I don't believe that's an issue with Verizon politics. Show me a multiband CDMA/analog phone with stub or internal antenna and then I'll believe you. Verizon is not the only multiband CDMA/analog wireless carrier in the world.
     
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  16. theyallstink

    theyallstink Junior Member
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    several 800/1900 TDMA and GSM phones exist with only internal antennas. Of the Nokia's I've used on AT&T none had as good reception as the Motorola Startac I had with its retractable antenna. So its likely possible to make a CDMA phone with an internal antenna but reception might suffer. Carriers may request antennas or it might be part of the IS95 spec.
     
  17. Airb330

    Airb330 Silver Senior Member
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    Aiwa and stink, it probably is just that the VS or ATT tower is closer to the building than Verizons. Trust me, on CDMA phones pulling out the antenna really helps in fringe areas. Stub antennas dont help really at all out there. GSM and TDMA maybe it doesn't help, but with CDMA it really does! [​IMG] Now, lets get back on topic! Why can't there be multiband CDMA phones with internal antennas.
     
  18. Malial

    Malial Senior Member
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    This topic has come up many times on many boards in many forms.

    Here's the short of it from what I understand:

    1. Antennas do make a difference. Not only in reception (especially analog which isn't really an issue with GSM carriers), but in the RF performance of the phone. A CDMA phone with the antenna retracted has to work "harder" than it does with the antenna extended. If you don't worry as much about brain fry, then leave it retracted all the time. It also makes a huge difference in analog areas. Hence why all Verizon phones have antennas- they have a huge analog network that needs to be supported.

    3. There's a lot going on behind the scenes with CDMA that doesn't happen with TDMA/GSM thus making an antenna more of an integral part. Of course you can have a CDMA phone without an antenna, but it won't work as well. From what I understand, the antenna helps more on the 800mhz side than the 1900mhz. Has to do with the size of the wave. Antennas are made at specific lengths to optimize the reception of these waves. Again why you will see more CDMA phones with antennas than GSM. GSM is mainly 1900mhz here.

    4. A lot of it is carrier preference. From what I understand phones are basically "commisioned" by carriers. They say they want this phone with these specs. Verizon specs include an antenna. Sprint phones have antennas as well. Samsug isn't going to go make a CDMA phone without an antenna when it knows that Verizon definitely wouldn't carry it, and Sprint probably wouldn't carry it.

    I really pushed this question on several boards months ago, and in all honesty, no one had one clear answer as to why CDMA's don't have interanals. I believe it's a combo of all of these things, and I'm sure there's other reasons that I'm not even aware of.

    But let's face it...These phones are tested, tried and true. If an antenna didn't make a difference on CDMA phones, knowing a lot of consumer preference is for smaller internal antennas, why would they put them on every phone?
     
  19. IdiOTeQnoLogY

    IdiOTeQnoLogY Bronze Senior Member
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    i can say that on my 5150 the antenna makes a HUGE difference [​IMG] in any area with less than full signal strength.....usually it will add 1 if not 2 bars of signal (and clearer reception if a call was on the point of breaking up)........and besides......anything to concentrate that radiation just a little farther from my small brain is nice......i try to use my antenna extended all the time even when using my headset as well......
     
  20. KevinJames

    KevinJames WA's 1st retired mod
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    << Aiwa you are wrong. I am sorta in a fringe area....and pulling out my antenna helps the conversation greatly! I never said the 8270 was triband I dont think anyone did, nor did we say Verizon would ever carry it. I just hope they carry the 3585, which fits Verizon's specification. >>



    To fruther emphasize and demonstrate this, retract your car antenna and then try listening to a radio station, if you can get ANY signal.

    Again, antennas are there merely for show, they are completely functional and ncessary components and their design is to maximize signal, not beauty.
     
  21. Guest

    Guest Guest

    <<

    << Aiwa you are wrong. I am sorta in a fringe area....and pulling out my antenna helps the conversation greatly! I never said the 8270 was triband I dont think anyone did, nor did we say Verizon would ever carry it. I just hope they carry the 3585, which fits Verizon's specification. >>



    To fruther emphasize and demonstrate this, retract your car antenna and then try listening to a radio station, if you can get ANY signal.

    Again, antennas are there merely for show, they are completely functional and ncessary components and their design is to maximize signal, not beauty.
    >>




    I have a 2000 Honda Accord. It doesn't have an antenna like the older models do. It's built into the windshield and its works just as good as if it had an antenna.

    Also, I don't mind having an antenna. But why are the antenna's cheesy??? Why can't they put stronger antennas that are much harder to break&gt; I don't mind the antenna. I do mind worrying about breaking it. Why can't the antenna sit in the phone and I can pull it out when I need it?

    JOE

    BTW, how can I register for this forum?
     
  22. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    Somebody else emailed me because they couldn't register. Sometimes the "Join" button is at the top and sometimes it isn't. If you catch it sometimes when it is there, then you jus click the "Join" button.
     
  23. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    Oh yeah, some of the old Verizon NEC phones (analog) didn't have retractable antennas and they worked just fine, and still do.
     
  24. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    Ok, everyone knows that pulling out a retractable antenna improves reception. Now, what we have to realize is that when a retractable antenna is NOT extended, the reception is inferior to that of a phone with a stub antenna because the stub antenna acts as a retractable antenna in the extended position. Therefore, if a retractable antenna is extended, the reception on the phone will be equal to that of a phone with stub or internal antenna.

    Now, granted that retractable antennas help in the 800Mhz analog support for CDMA phones, shouldn't it help with the analog support of TDMA phones? We can't forget that most TDMA phones support analog and its in the 800Mhz too, but TDMA phones with analog support can have stub antennas but CDMA phones with analog support won't.

    The fact that the 6185 was having problems with the stub antenna tells us that this is not an issue of whether or not Verizon wants antennas one way or another. This is strictly a technical issue and not any company's preference.
     
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  25. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    That is what I have been trying to say Bobolito.
    So the questionis why do they make retractable antennas when the stub antennas do the job equally.
     
  26. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    Chris, I've been researching the technical differences between CDMA and TDMA and although I cannot answer the $64,000 dollar question directly, I can say that unlike TDMA, CDMA is so much different from analog. In TDMA, the same antenna that is used for digital is equally effective for analog since TDMA is an overlay for analog. The same can apply for GSM and iDEN although these network providers don't support analog. However, in CDMA, due to its radical differences with analog, a retractable antenna is required in order for phones to have effective reception in both systems. The retractable antenna plays a double role so to speak in CDMA/analog phones. This is what I understand so far.

    Capish...
     
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  27. mattwhit

    mattwhit Junior Member
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    The reason carriers like VZW and SPCS have phones with retractable antennas all centers their need to run on multiple frequency systems. When you change the length of an antenna, you optimize it for a different frequency. Sprint 's system runs on 1900Mhz, if you need to analog roam, you'll have to switch over to 800Mhz (analog or digital). Verizon is in the same boat, most of their system is 800Mhz but they do have some systems that are 1900Mhz. It all comes down to frequency. In addition, both SPCS and VZW phones transmit at 200mW on digital and 600mW on analog systems. A better antenna helps to optimize the lower powered phones. As for the difference between CDMA (Code Division Multiple Access) and TDMA (Time Division Multiple Access)... CDMA divides the digital signal based on a code assigned by the network, TDMA divides digital data based on available time slots. These protocol have no effect on the signal. Hope this clears things up...
     
  28. Airb330

    Airb330 Silver Senior Member
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    Yeah, Airb330 stands for Airbus 330. I dunno Airbus's just are nicer inside, but hey I have t root for Boeing, after all they are an American company! This post has been very informative! I know I'd pay extra for an internal antenna CDMA phone with Verizon since they have the best network around here.....but according to some of these posts, it might not ever happen. [​IMG]
     
  29. theyallstink

    theyallstink Junior Member
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    Sprint even has retractable antennas on their single band phones so its not only a matter of wavelength differences between 800 and 1900. Yes, wavelength plays a roll, but to make a comparison to an FM antenna is not correct. Anything over 700Mhz is considered microwave. Your FM radio stations are in the FM band which has a much longer wavelength. For the most part you car antenna length is needed to get decent AM reception. Most cars will do OK with an FM antenna half the length. Its AM that suffers because it has a really long wavelength

    I know that nearly all, if not all, GSM phones have either fixed or internal antennas. This might be a part of the GSM spec. CDMA might call for a retractable antenna. It is feasibly possible to do an 800/1900 phone with a fixed or internal antenna. Nokia has had TDMA phones that were dual band with an internal antenna.

    Regardless, I've never seen a fixed or internal antenna phone get solid reception. You 'll give up reliability for convenience.
     
  30. Kenny

    Kenny Senior Member
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    Stink, have you tried the new Nokia 6360 (internal antenna) on AT&T's network? This is kinda like the 2nd generation of internal antenna phones and everyone seems to say that it has better reception than the 3260 and 3360.
     

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