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Myths and truths about wireless carriers

Discussion in 'GENERAL Wireless Discussion' started by larry, Jun 29, 2004.

  1. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    Please reread my last post. You are now spinning what I said into something else. Nice try. :)

    On Florida, the post was about EVDO availability to customers, not how well Verizon is doing for themselves.

    On business model, you are not showing how the Verizon business model works better for customers than Sprint's. You have only insisted that Verizon's works better for themselves.
     
  2. josephd

    josephd Tomorrow is another day.
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    I don't know if I am looking at these maps correctly but Verizon looks a little soft in Florida.
     

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  3. charlyee

    charlyee Ultimate Insanity
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    My Verizon phone (LG VX-6000) did not have very good coverage in Lakeland, Fl. It did have useable signal most of the time but I did have 2 dropped calls in the week I was there. I had much better coverage in Naples, FL....:)
     
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  4. josephd

    josephd Tomorrow is another day.
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    Sorry Charlyee I should have clarified myself, the maps are showing VZW's EVDO coverage;) anyway I think this thread is going a little off track because there is already an EVDO coverage thread floating around.:)
     
  5. charlyee

    charlyee Ultimate Insanity
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    Actually Joe, I did know what you meant but since it was already going a little off track I thought I would give it a nudge and help it.

    I was looking for a reaction from Gamer on on my post, since he recently went back to the dark side (Verizon)...LOL
     
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  6. josephd

    josephd Tomorrow is another day.
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    I was about to correct myself Charlyee and say you were right,looking at Verizon's coverage in Florida and even the south in general does look less than appealing.:)
     
  7. WirelessBeachBum

    WirelessBeachBum Soylent Green is People
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    Actually it looks like Sprint doesn't connect with native network on 41 or 75 in Southern Florida...Verizon does connect...

    Does anyone know who owns the native coverage down there?

    Here is a map that includes the America's Choice coverage area...

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. WirelessBeachBum

    WirelessBeachBum Soylent Green is People
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    Coming from the business side of the industry, I do look at what is working for the company as opposed to what is working for the customers. If a company was managed by what was always best for the customer, Both Sprint and Verizon would have evdo coverage nationwide, and unlimited voice plans for $50 per month...Then after both Sprint and Verizon went bankrupt, Alltel and US Cellular would buy both companies.

    My final point on this is, Verizon may not be the first to roll out EVDO in every nook and cranny of the country, but they will do it, while at the same time, earning a good return on the investment they make in each market. And yes you are correct Verizon does a good job of looking out for themselves, but that is one of their strengths, not weaknesses.

    Thanks for the debate on this subject...I think it will be interesting to come back every six months and update this thread to see how things have progressed...
     
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  9. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    ^Thats' fair. Another way to put it is that Verizon has a more conservative consistent business model in some respects and Sprint may be taking risks. As any Superbowl coach will tell ya, can't win consistently w/out taking risks.

    In terms of capabilities available to customers, Sprint's moves seem to have paid off as they now offer more to customers at the moment - less limitations by not disabling bluetooth functions, non-restrictive terms of service for EVDO, all EVDO phones can be USB tethered as modem, more markets for EVDO, more native coverage in progress by CDMA additions to Nextel sites and more capacity immediately available. Will be interesting to see who delivers EVDO Rev A more broadly.

    But the bigger question is if Sprint can be profitable while doing so and it will take a full fiscal year of the Nextel merger to get a better idea.

    Good conversation, thanks.
     
  10. Fathead

    Fathead In the Industry
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    Sprint has to start turning these advantages into customer #s and cash flow or it's just sizzle w/o steak. I agree that the picture becomes clearer a year from now, if Cingular and Sprint can start applying pressure on Verizon in those 2 areas.
     
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  11. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    They simply need to be profitable and have growth, not be #1 in customers. Reducing churn is also important, which they have improved and Sprint is growing customers as well but not at same rate as Verizon. In order to attract new customers, Sprint does have to offer something better, which they apparently do in many key areas.
     
  12. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    Article on 4G (post-EVDO) suggests Sprint to rollout 4G to 100 markets in 2008. Sprint 3G/EVDO said to expand to cover 260 million population in 2007. That is greater than 100% of voice network today (250m+), suggesting Sprnt is indeed expanding coverage on existing Nextel sites.

    http://www.xchangemag.com/tdhotnews/61h19121111.html

     
  13. larry

    larry Sprint loyalist and former mod
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    Exactly. People seem to think for some reason that Sprint has to be adding close to or as many customers as Verizon to be considered doing well. :confused: Each carrier has it's own strategy of what works best for them. Sprint has targeted a higher ARPU than other carriers and so they likely can't and won't be adding as many customers. As long as they are making a decent profit (which they are) and continue to adds customers and hold or reduce churn then they are doing well.
     
  14. WirelessBeachBum

    WirelessBeachBum Soylent Green is People
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    It would be interesting to see the grand total cost on the merger with Nextel, after you figure in all of the affiliate buy outs....Figure in those Billions, plus, the Billions it will take to have 100 markets with 4G...That's allot of money considering they are only looking for 20-40 in additional revenue per sub on 4G services...I'm not sure if the math makes sense.
     
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  15. Fathead

    Fathead In the Industry
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    I'm not saying that Sprint isn't doing well. I'm saying that if all these upgrades and features aren't translating into good customer numbers and profit growth, it's all hype. They don't have to match anyone, they just need to show that these enhancements are truly gaining them an advantage.
     
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  16. larry

    larry Sprint loyalist and former mod
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    Come on it would have made no sense for them to just sit and watch their competitors double in size without making any moves of their own? :rolleyes: We all know that this merger had to happen. Look at the bright side. You finally got your wish of some of the affiliates (inlcuding Airgate/Alamosa) being bought out right? :D
     
  17. larry

    larry Sprint loyalist and former mod
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    I don't expect them to turn this into great customer numbers right away. It will take time. This merger is targeted more for the future and than for now. We're only 3 or 4 months removed from the beginning transistion of the merger. I don't see any evidence yet that points to anything but positive news for this situation. Will something happen to prove this was a bad move? Maybe, but until that happens I don't see any reason not to be optimistic.
     
  18. Matt

    Matt Twin girls!
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    Today, Cingular stated they have HSDPA in 16 markets. According to them, their buildout uses interchangeable terminology.

    http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060124/cltu011.html?.v=39

     
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  19. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    It is a very costly acquisition in the end. Much more than what AWS was for Cingular. Let's hope it turns out well in the end.
     
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  20. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    It's not hype to me as a customer who is able to use an EVDO phone as a modem (Sprint officially supports this on all EVDO phones), use Sprint EVDO with no restrictions (Verizon/Cingular have very strict TOS restrictions), able to get EVDO access is more markets with better average performance (Sprint leads wireless broadband coverage/capacity now).

    These are real benefits to Sprint users today and they have the largest announced rollout plan for continued high speed. Cingular is playing catchup with highspeed and Verizon lost its lead in terms of functionality/coverage to customers.
     
  21. Fathead

    Fathead In the Industry
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    that's great for you, but if Sprint doesn't have a boatload of people jumping on board besides you in the next year or so, it's just another big expense. and I say the same thing for Verizon and Cingular. They have to get the people actually utilizing it.
     
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  22. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    Reacting to or waiting for demand might get a company behind and may not be able to keep up. Strategic building is costly upfront and there is risk but you can't move forward unless building up the infrastructure.

    Like anything, you have to get the product out there before people can start using it. If I recall, way more than half of Sprint cellphone users also subscribe to Vision or some data service, about 25% of Sprint's customers download ringtones alone. As more PowerVision (EVDO) phones are released and completely replace Vision (1xRTT) phones, the user base will be there. Sprint currently has about 12 Vision phones and 5 PowerVision phones and only 3 voiceonly phones. I would expect by end of year, there will be 12 PowerVision phones and only one or two Vision phones if that. For phones, PowerVision costs the same as Vision at $15/month.

    Also, Sprint has many 1xRTT laptop data card users and they give EVDO cards as free upgrade to existing business users - that's an instant EVDO installbase already present.
     
  23. larry

    larry Sprint loyalist and former mod
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    I can remember when people were saying that Sprint's original Vision services weren't going to get a lot of sign-ups and that Sprint was investing too much money into it too quickly. Well we know how sucessful it became. :)
     
  24. Fathead

    Fathead In the Industry
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    I'm not saying that sprint can't or won't do well. I just think that until they start showing some good #s due to the upgrades, they are just flash. But if anyone has had success in data, it's Sprint.
     
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