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Motorola boss counters criticism from Apple's Jony Ive

Discussion in 'GENERAL Wireless Discussion' started by JFB, Feb 20, 2015.

  1. JFB

    JFB Gold Senior Member
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  2. KevinJames

    KevinJames WA's 1st retired mod
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    Ha ha ha ha ha ha....... Gotta hate on Apple. Their corporate arrogance is bar none. And I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that has compared the business to a religion. Forget the CoolAid, pass the apple juice and say amen.
     
  3. RadioRaiders

    RadioRaiders RF Black-Belt
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    He is "Sir" Ives? Considering his belief that consumers shouldn't have choices and that one design should suit everyone, it sounds to me that "Apparatchik" Ives is a better title ;)

    In any case, a good ole Apple vs. Android fanboy war will only benefit the both of them, well done boys (y)
     
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  4. charlyee

    charlyee Ultimate Insanity
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    I have never understood why the iPhone is considered to be expensive and a high end Android is not, when they are both comparably priced.

    The Samsung S5 is $600 and the Note 4 is $700. The iPhone 6 starts at $650 and the 6 plus at $750. Pretty comparable in my opinion.

    The Moto X is specially priced and all high end Androids are more expensive than it. So no point in comparing either Android or iOS to it.

    Just my 2 cents. :)


    Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk
     
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  5. palandri

    palandri Former Palm Guy
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    Before June 2007 when the first iPhone came out, who dominated the marketplace? Blackberry? Motorola?
     
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  6. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    I agree with CDG, Charlyee. The price argument comes up from time to time and makes little sense. A base 64 G Moto X is $600, or more if you add some of the options for colors, leather. An iPhone 6, 64 G is $750, with a higher resale value. Other m high end phones are comparable. And most don't pay that price regardless. Hardly price gouging.

    I think the Moto build your own idea is fun, but hasn't been too successful. Most people just buy the stock phone at a store. I think Ives simply meant that it is a gimmick, lacking any real design value.

    And the reality is that being offered to chose colors and such really is not a design event. The Moto X shape is fixed, it still is just ONE design. If Motorola's chief makes you believe that you have any real choice, HIS Kool Aid is far stronger than what Apple is selling (in three color choices).

    However the iPhone, being so popular has far far greater options in cases than any other individual Motorola smartphone. That is a side benefit that works.

    Bottom line- an iPhone 6 ( or even an iphone 5 S for that matter) far outsells any Moto X in volume. So the Moto X chief's design message isn't resonating with the buyers interest. Nor Moto's profits
     
  7. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Both phones are nice looking devices. This is just media play and has little to do with religion. It is true that designers are a peculiar bunch, regardless who they work for.
     
  8. Scrumhalf

    Scrumhalf Bronze Senior Member
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    Ivie is a respected designer, but for him to come out and publicly slag a competitor's design philosophy just seems in poor taste. The Moto X is a beautifully designed phone. I don't think Ivie's comments have any merit whatsoever. He just comes across like an arrogant jerk.
     
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  9. charlyee

    charlyee Ultimate Insanity
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    @Scrumhalf, yes the X is beautiful, I definite agree.

    As for Ives, imho all designers are igotistical and power hungry and do sometimes come out as jerks.

    Having said that, Rick Osterloh calling Apple's prices outrageous comes across as ridiculous, since the prices are quite comparable.

    I will admit, Motomaker does nothing for me, and I just picked up what AT&T had in the store.

    The same with my iPhone 6, I just got what the Apple Store had in stock. I wouldn't have gotten a 16 but anything higher was ok.

    So all this argument about consumer choice is kind of lost on me.
     
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  10. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Given that Ives didn't mention Motorola by name, nor make a media event out of it ( it was a sentence in a multi page article), I'd say that Ives won in the 'higher class act' category, this time around.

    Not so Moto's Chief, this time. Wonder what his designer think. Maybe he agrees with Ives, but was overruled by corporate?
     
  11. RadioRaiders

    RadioRaiders RF Black-Belt
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    Without naming any names, I know a particular Apple fanboy on this very forum who has a penchant for Kool-Aid and would defend Apple no matter what kind of obnoxious statements they may make (<-- did I just take the "high road" there? Or did I sink down and lower myself by making a thinly veiled, accusative and obnoxious statement? Hmmm... :cautious:)

    In any case, it's obvious, what other phone mfgr offers you the ability to make the phone customized aside from Motorola? Nobody.

    And I actually don't disagree totally with his statement above. He's correct in a way, if you let the customer deign their own phone, you do abdicate your role as designer in a way. It's like a chef saying "I will serve you the RadioRaiders special, exactly how I make it", or the chef saying "I will make you a meal, and you tell me what garnishes you would like, how I should cook the meat, etc..". Some people like the chef to tell them what they should eat, others like to tell the chef what they want.
     
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  12. Scrumhalf

    Scrumhalf Bronze Senior Member
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    Ivie on the hand is of the Apple school where according to them, they ALWAYS know best what's good for the customer. The consumers don't need to bother their pretty little heads about anything - if the iPhone or Mac or any other Apple product doesn't have a feature, its because Uncle Bill already knows that the customer doesn't need it, and being the bumbling ignoramuses that they are, they'll only end up hurting themselves if they were given that feature.

    And I don't buy the abdication idea. Its like saying that a car designer abdicates responsibility because you can customize it in a half dozen colors, a couple of trims and with or without the sports suspension package. Ivie needs to put down his own koolaid. All Motorola is allowing the customer to do is make cosmetic changes.
     
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  13. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    The only difference I see here is that Apple gives you three colors to chose from, and Motorola gives you some more colors with trim options- but the palette is still limited and Motorola's choice.

    I think the point of Ives is that your value proposition marketing plan shouldn't be based on that. Maybe it isn't, at least I didn't think it was. But Motorola's statement seems to confirm that maybe it was.

    I like the last comment about making money. Wonder what Motorola's shareholders feel about that! :)

    Ives is a designer. And at the top of his game and recognized as so within his peer community of designers. At the top of their game, I don't think Mozart was very humble, nor Beethoven handing out fill-in-the blank music sheets to his audience for suggestions, even when he was deaf.

    Anyhow, much to do about nothing...." Move along here, nothing to see"
     
  14. RadioRaiders

    RadioRaiders RF Black-Belt
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    Being good and being humble are not mutually exclusive.

    ...he wasn't Mozart...but then some people may not like Mozart;
    [​IMG]
     
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  15. charlyee

    charlyee Ultimate Insanity
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    @Scrumhalf, I really like how you bring a car in for comparison, seriously not being sarcastic or anything. :)

    However, I don't believe that's a viable comparison, most people are less picky about the looks color etc of a phone than they are with a car.

    When I went to buy my new Mini, I had a $1000 coupon if I would buy it off the lot. When I found out they didn't have a Blazing Red with a white top, I asked them to order one. They informed me that I wouldn't be able to use the coupon, I knew that but I wanted that combination with LED headlights and was willing to pay more and wait 6 weeks.

    In contrast when I went to the Apple Store and said I was looking for a silver 32, they said they only have grey 128, I said sure I will take it.

    I guess what I am trying to say phone customization is not that important to many. IIRC, @JFB had expressed some concerns that getting his initials inscribed on his X may not have been a good idea.

    Just my humble two cents.
     
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  16. Scrumhalf

    Scrumhalf Bronze Senior Member
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    CDG, I'm not trying to make a value comparison between customization of cars vs phones. I get that more people are interested in customizing their cars vs their phones. I'm just focusing on Ivie's assertion that giving customization choices somehow makes you an inferior designer. That's just bunk IMO.
     
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  17. charlyee

    charlyee Ultimate Insanity
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    @Scrumhalf, oh good we are finally on the same page. :D
     
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  18. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    I certainly get Motorola offering choices of back and front covers to customers. I have always got that as an option and think it's cool. I also also understand the reason why Apple current limits production choices to three. Pretty much as limited as all phones have been since the earliest days. Nokia, blackberry, Sony, stc, etc included.

    And certainly Apple sells Apple branded cases of multiple colors and materials. And the 5C ( as well as generations of iPod players) in multi color hardware options.

    What I don't get is the how this translates into a big deal for Apple Haters. Regardless what a designers opinion is, it translates to the same choices that nearly everyone else offers.
     
  19. charlyee

    charlyee Ultimate Insanity
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    Corporate arrogance, operating philosophy and everything else that Apple does that is hateful to many, I have the following to say to them:

    When Motorola closed their manufacturing in Schaumburg and moved it to China to cut costs, they laid off majority of their manufacturing engineers, 6 of whom were in my graduating class and two of them my personal friends. There wasn't any outplacement services offered,any separation pay, or any such thing. It literally destroyed the young struggling families. It was Motorola's hay days but greed kicked in and they wanted more so went to cheaper manufacturing in China.

    All companies exist to make money and if Apple or any one else can do it without destroying lives like Motorola did, I commend them for it and hope they continue to be profitable.
     
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  20. KevinJames

    KevinJames WA's 1st retired mod
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    @CDG I see I hit a nerve. I guess I should state that my opinion of HP isn't much better. I bought a new, high-end laptop from them last year. It came with dead optical drive (from China, no less). When I called customer support, I was told I'd have to pay for the new drive. I was furious. I wrote a letter to Meg (HP's CEO) and gave her a piece of my mind.

    I also agree that most large corporations are arrogant. My former employer (AT&T) and their upper management are very arrogant people. I even wrote a post one day asking why it is that corporations feel that punishing people for being customers is the right mindset to have. But my loathing of Apple goes way beyond all of those. They treat business partners, vendors, customers, employees and whatever other category there is as insignificant, puny and worth crushing.
     
  21. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Oh, I get it now. You dislike all corporations. True, dealings with corporations can be as irrational or surprisingly good, as dealing with friends or family, changing on a daily basis.

    Somewhat off topic, but the OP subject is dead anyhow: I can't fathom why HP would make you pay for a dead optical drive, out of the box? Do you mean that you had to pay for shipping or service, or the price of the actual drive? I can't see how any corp would do that. Sorry that this happened to you. That had to be really frustrating.
     
    #21 viewfly, Feb 23, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2015
  22. KevinJames

    KevinJames WA's 1st retired mod
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    They wanted me to pay for the new drive until I shipped them the old one -- as if I were trying to rip them off. What in the world would I do with a 2nd drive that takes some effort to remove screws and such. I shipped them back the dead drive. They did charge my card and then reversed the charge. My contention is that it was never my fault so why am I being punished. HP tried to soften the situation by offering me $X-worth of free stuff. I doubt I will ever again buy from HP.

     
  23. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Oh. So my reply (if the story were about Apple would make me sound like a FanBoy, but this is HP or any corporation today) is that this normal today.

    Sadly, and this is not you, many people feel it is fair game to stick it to the Man or corporations. Fraud by consumers is one of the reasons we pay more for credits cards or just at the point of sale.

    HPs requirement is not that out of line, although it is a newer phenomenon. It's not greed but good business. Having had a small business of my own, you'd be surprised what sweet people would rip us off.

    Doesn't seem like you lost any money here. I imagine if they had a local shop it would have been done on the spot and totally free. Like when my Mac optical
    Drive died, they ordered a new one, call me, I came in and it was replaced on the spot. No cash outlay by me. If it was sent to my home, it probably would have worked as the HP case. I know ATT would do that for a phone exchange via land mail.

    Just the way of the world today. I'm afraid some consumers aren't any nicer than corporations.
     

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