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More VERY BAD news for Samsung Note 7's

Discussion in 'Wireless News' started by KevinJames, Oct 5, 2016.

  1. palandri

    palandri Former Palm Guy
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    A Pixel XL would be a good choice. I really like the vanilla android OS.
     
  2. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    I'm a huge fan of vanilla Android as well. Looks like this time around Google has added a bit on top of the vanilla stuff as there are some Pixel-exclusive software features not coming to Nexus devices. But nothing as drastic as TouchWiz or Sense, that's for sure :)
     
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  3. palandri

    palandri Former Palm Guy
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    I think I read that XDA has already modified those exclusive software features to work on earlier Nexus phones.
     
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  4. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    And Samsung is taking no chances with the return packages
     
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  5. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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  6. KevinJames

    KevinJames WA's 1st retired mod
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    @dmapr: Thanks for that. I checked phonescoop.com. They also maintain a list of phones. Like your results, I also came up with nothing comparable. I didn't realize Samsung had that much of a lead.

    When it is released, this looks like a good contender:
    http://www.gsmarena.com/lg_v20-8238.php
     
  7. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    Yes, V20 sounds promising, and it will come with Nougat OOB, which is always a plus on non-Goolge phones as the updates are not nearly as swift.
     
  8. charlyee

    charlyee Ultimate Insanity
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    I vote for the Pixel XL


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  9. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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  10. palandri

    palandri Former Palm Guy
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  11. KevinJames

    KevinJames WA's 1st retired mod
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    @palandri: At this point, Samsung has not yet ID'd the root cause. The article I just read today explained that they setup a test of numerous Note 7's and tried to reproduce the issue. None exploded. Now Samsung is offering a $100 bonus IF a Note 7 user turns in their phone for another Samsung phone product. I'm waiting for the LG V20 (as you already know) before any final decisions.
     
  12. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Well here is an interesting take on the battery problems.

    It makes some valid points. Maybe the engineering was bad.

    "Doh Chil-Hoon, head of the state-run Korea Electrotechnology Research Institute's battery research division, said that based on the limited information provided by Samsung, he believes the push to increase battery power was part of the problem.

    The 3,500 mAh battery in the Samsung Note 7 is "one of the highest, if not the highest, capacity battery we've seen in a phone," said Wayne Lam, an industry analyst at IHS Markit Technology.

    But storing so much energy in a tiny space, with combustible components separated by ultra-thin walls, makes them susceptible to overheating if exposed to high temperatures, damage or flaws in manufacturing. If the separators fail, a chemical reaction can quickly escalate out of control.

    That's what happened with the Note 7, Samsung's Koh explained.


    Apple has tweaked hardware and software it developed itself to make iPhones use power more efficiently, while Samsung has increased the capacity of the batteries in its phones.

    That can be done without increasing size by adjusting components or changing the production process, Lam said.

    "You have two different trajectories, with Samsung packing in more energy density, versus Apple trying to trim it down by optimizing everything else," he said, adding that the two rivals are "constantly locked in this arms race of improving and one-upping."


    http://m.phys.org/news/2016-09-galaxy-recall-stronger-batteries.html#


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  13. M in LA

    M in LA Mobile 25 Years Plus
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    The S7 Edge has a 3,600 mAh battery, larger than the Note 7. Other than the phone getting warm when charging, I've had no issues with it.

    I subscribe to the belief Samsung rushed the Note 7 out to cut Apple off at the pass. It didn't work. Still, the S7 Edge is a GREAT phone. I swore I'd never go back to Samsung after their horrible first CDMA/GSM phone for Verizon a dozen years ago, UNTIL the S7 Edge came out.

    Samsung makes great phones, IMO. Now if they will take what they've learned with the Note 7 disaster, the S8 (and its variants) could begin the redeeming process for the company.

    The iPhone 6 Plus is still my #1 phone, and the S7 Edge isn't far behind. I prefer iOS over Android now so my next main phone will be an Apple (the 8 maybe?). Still, I would again gladly choose a future Galaxy phone as my secondary.
     
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  14. KevinJames

    KevinJames WA's 1st retired mod
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    Doh Chil-Hoon must take consumers for idiots. Or maybe he is grossly misinformed about his own industry. Just M in LA cited, the S7-Edge is bigger than the Note 7. Asus makes a phone with a 5000mAh battery. Other phones in the provided link are also bigger. So now we can all do a Homer Simpson, "Doh" on Doh Chil-Hoon.

    upload_2016-10-13_19-19-0.png
     
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  15. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Hold on there guys, not so fast!

    @M in LA I agree with you completely. Other batteries are larger in wattage. I realized that, and almost didn't link the article, cause it's not clear what it meant.

    And certainly Samsung knows how to make charging circuits, etc. so in the end, the real engineering cause is a mystery.

    Read the article again. He is talking about energy density; power per package size. I really don't know the size of these batteries. Perhaps the Note battery is physically smaller, than the Galaxy to make room for other components ? So that is why I went ahead with the post.

    Certainly, the 'fix' to charge only to 60% capacity would be consistent with a thin walled manufacturing error that was not caught. Less potential energy storage, less chance of separator wall break down. In the case, the charging rate is the same, so the heating rate is the same. Otherwise, they could have just charged, turn off, and then charge again in a cycle to keep the heat down. But they didn't do that.

    @KevinJames. That ASUS may have a 5000 mAH battery, but that phone is nearly 11 mm thick ( compared to 7.9 mm, on the Note). Maybe the battery is larger, physically.

    The point of the story is to highlight challenges, and possible causes with a full acknowledgement of the rush to market issue.

    "But storing so much energy in a tiny space, with combustible components separated by ultra-thin walls, makes them susceptible to overheating if exposed to high temperatures, damage or flaws in manufacturing. If the separators fail, a chemical reaction can quickly escalate out of control.

    That's what happened with the Note 7, Samsung's Koh explained.

    "The flaw in the manufacturing process resulted in the negative electrodes and the positive electrodes coming together," he told reporters in Seoul."

    The article goes on to suggest a rush to market failed to recognize a battery flaw.


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    #45 viewfly, Oct 14, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2016
  16. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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  17. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    @dmapr. That is interesting. Either that or people are using them to grill tiny sized pancakes.

    I think this phone will become just another foot Note in history.


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  18. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    I would never try to grill pancakes over open flame, but maybe it's just me :D After all, I would have had no use for the Note 7 regardless of its explosive temperament.
     
  19. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Okay,then pass it over to George Foreman


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  20. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    Here's a thought: place a Note 7 into a George Foreman grill and turn the grill on for a really cool wireless charging effect :D
     
  21. KevinJames

    KevinJames WA's 1st retired mod
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    Well, it appears we've duly buried this thread.

    upload_2016-10-14_16-39-58.png
     
  22. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    I blame Samsung :)
     
  23. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    DOT bans Note 7 on all US flights.

    This quote says it all
     
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  24. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    Back on topic, here is a link to another thread and battery estimate size, and a guess as to volume vs mAH..

    Implying that the Note 7 is too small for its wattage, and a manufacturer defect could magnify the risk factor for shorting out.

    Just a guess.

    [​IMG]


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  25. KevinJames

    KevinJames WA's 1st retired mod
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    @viewfly: Very interesting. I know there will be more research results coming. At this point, inconsequential. They've lost my interest. If they can't get a smartphone design right after 6 tries, its time to drop out of that race. I've already decided to get the LG V20 and this stylus. My wife has one for her tablet and is very pleased with it.
     
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  26. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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  27. charlyee

    charlyee Ultimate Insanity
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    Ditto!


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  28. palandri

    palandri Former Palm Guy
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    I had an early LG windows phone, a Nexus 5 and my wife a Nexus 5 and 5X all by LG and we had no problems with any of the LG phones, and most important to Kevin no fires or explosions :D
     
  29. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
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    V20 will have a couple of more things going for it. They put a few interesting features into the camera, it has an SD card slot and it has a removable battery, which means there's a potential for extended batteries should @KevinJames be interested. I was using the extended batteries on both of my previous phones (Galaxy Nexus and Galaxy S4 GPE) and I have never run out of juice in one day (something I've accomplished with the Nexus 6P on more than one occasion).
     
  30. KevinJames

    KevinJames WA's 1st retired mod
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