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Merger's.. Next Year? Cingular with AT&T/T Mobile??? Sprint with Verizon??? Everyone wants Nextel!!?

Discussion in 'GENERAL Wireless Discussion' started by Guest, Oct 9, 2002.

  1. Guest

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  2. mrnokia

    mrnokia Senior Member
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    WOw - If this were to be true the company's would have a bigger selection phones because they would merge - hm.. interesting - i hope they do!
     
  3. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    T-Mobile should stand alone, by themselves; Because if they did, then all of the other GSM providers would fall, no doubt about that, because the others are just too far behind T-Mobile.
     
  4. Guest

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    The last post was a joke right? DT is soooo in debt last I heard was that they were after all going to let Cingular control the stock. I could be wrong. But without Cingular that company would fall faster that elderly folks at a dixie land dance... In california they have praises sung. But in other states they just piss people off.[​IMG]
     
  5. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    Every wireless provider is in debt. DT is just in more debt, becuase they are more than just a wireless provider.
    What do you mean T-Mobile would fall flat without Cingular; Excuse me, but what has T-Mobile been doing all of this other time. T-Mobile has been doing just fine without Cingular. It seems to me that Cingular needs T-Mobile. Cingular roams on T-Mobile in 46 of the 50 states in America; NOW, WHO NEEDS WHO?
     
  6. Freakguy

    Freakguy New Member

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    Other states T Mobile pisses people off? Im in Oregon, working great! Love em!
     
  7. ZaphodB

    ZaphodB Signal Go Down De Hole...
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    Without being too biased here - and full disclosure, look left, I have T-Mobile - let's compare apples to apples here.

    Cingular is the wireless venture of SBC, based in the US.
    T-Mobile US (formerly VoiceStream) is the wireless venture of Deutsche Telekom, based in the US.

    You can't compare Cingular to DT any more than you can compare T-Mobile US to SBC.

    T-Mobile US are not in especially high debt. The difference is that DT are under pressure to reduce the total debt by selling off one of the most valuable business units, namely T-Mobile US. DT would then use the cash from the sale to reduce debt in other areas such as their infrastructure unit, the German landline telephone company, their cable holdings &c.

    Again (and it's been repeated many times here), almost all companies have debt. It's when their debt goes too high that it becomes an issue...

    That said, I think T-Mobile US will be acquired, though I'm at a loss to say by whom.
     
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  8. Guest

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    Aiwa pro, Cingular roams with t mobile for the sake of thier Gsm customers. Cingular is mostly tdma across the usa. GAIT will eliminate the need for any roaming partner period. And since T Mobile is gsm in 46 states, in a country that still revolves around cdma/tdma, that's the reason that they are in debt and would'nt mind losing their american branch. Other countries are GSM and can make them more money. Aiwa you can say what you want and defend t mobile all you like, but the fact is this: if the 'big 3' theory, as mentioned in an earlier thread, comes into play, (& it will, but I doubt by next year), you can kiss t mobile's A** goodbye. Since SBC and Southwestern created Cingular, they created a stand alone entity that's massive and probably alot stronger than people realize. & with AT&T's wireless services get more and more in debt, it's no wonder they wanted to merge with Cingular as well. NOW YOU TELL ME IN AMERICA, WHO NEEDS WHO? Because if you use GSM, Aiwa, I think, within the next 3 years, your gonna be writing that check over to Cingular....[​IMG]
     
  9. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    T-Mobile U.S. does not need to merge with anyone. If DT didn't own so many things besides wireless services, then this wouldn't be a problem. There is still a chance of the wireless department of DT (T-Mobile) spinning off from the rest of DT, just like AT&T Wireless did with the rest of AT&T.
     
  10. Rasputin

    Rasputin Bronze Senior Member
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    Cingulars TDMAs systems need to be upgraded, they can not be competitive in the long run with part of a system TDMA and the rest GSM, they have already stated they will upgrade. GAIT is just a intermediate step during the transition. What T-Mobile offers them is a pre built system to start to migrate over to GSM and gives them some bandwidth headroom to grow. Which might be cheaper than trying to purchase the spectrum someday when it comes available. Who needs who, in someways they need each other and in other ways they can go at it alone. Cingular wants to be a real national carrier, you need one technology to do that, and GSM is the technolgy they have decided to go with. GAIT will not fill the need to have a competitive type of faster Wireless web service in the TDMA markets, GAIT will not give more capacity to a TDMA system.

    T Mobile did not acquire all or most of their 60Billion plus debt from the aquisition of Voicestream.
     
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  11. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    well stated 'rasputin.'
     
  12. Matt

    Matt Twin girls!
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    Actually, per subscriber, T-Mobile USA customers produce revenue 2-2.5 times that of European customers. European GSM subs average revenue per month is about $20-25; while TMO USA average is in the low $50s.

    The other side of that equation currently is that there are many more European subscribers. But they are growing very slowly, while TMO USA is still growing over 40% per year.
     
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  13. Guest

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    ...well let's just see in 3-5 years who owns what.. My guess, & I dont care if this makes me unpopular for the Big 3 would be: Verizon, Cingular, & I would imagine an iDen type company. Reasons? Basic marketing and the ability to make REAL money. Every web page I visit that has this type of story the 2 names that come up again and again are always Cingular and Verizon. At this point, these two companies' main competition is eachother. But I have to agree with the previous Anon, aiwa, there's a good chance that your going to be a Cingular customer in the future. Not unless you want wcdam...
     
  14. Guest

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    Actually Verizon wireless in Not in debt.
     
  15. Matt

    Matt Twin girls!
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    Verizon Wireless doesn't release complete financial information as they are not a public company. So unless you have inside info......
     
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  16. Rasputin

    Rasputin Bronze Senior Member
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    The difference between US and EURO is the calling party pays and a the number of prepaid users in Europe. I could be but I thought TMO ARPU was in the $40's? You are right though it is a saturated market in Europe, but the market in the US will be slowing down in 2003 this is the last year you will see the growth that T-Mobile has seen this year, it has come from low balling the market, and with prepaid users.
     
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  17. chefofthefuture

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    Or the 2001 annual report, page 15.

    But according to the way this forum calculates debt for DT, Verizon has about $45b long term debt. It can be calculated this way because DT is not just T-Mobile USA, or T-Mobile in the rest of the world -- DT was (is) the state telecommunications company of Germany and do more than just mobile. That said, they are $65b in debt as a whole company, not just T-Mobile USA (the company formerly known as VS) -- as Rasputin said.

    Recent article: BusinessWeek
     
  18. psycho

    psycho Junior Member
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    Yes...VZ is a publicly traded company. Their wireless business is under their core businesses. I dunno where people came up with the notion that they aren't public
     
  19. Matt

    Matt Twin girls!
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    Verizon Wireless is NOT a publicly traded company. They are owned by Verizon Communications and Vodafone, just like SBC and Bell South own Cingular. You can't buy Cingular stock or Verizon Wireless stock (yet). Cingular has started to file quarterly reports (10-Q) which is here.
    , but Verizon Wireless hasn't. They just updated their prosepectus, it is here.


    chef - that's just general results. Annual reports (10-K, required by the SEC) for the whole company are ususally 100+ pages.

    rasputin - VS most recent ARPU was 50.42 for Q2.

    psycho - I said Verizon WIRELESS, not Verizon Communications, ticker VZ.
     
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  20. mrnokia

    mrnokia Senior Member
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    T-mobile does not need to stand alone so the rest wouldn't crumble. If Cingular and T-,mnobile need each other they will become 1 - therefore all their towers work for the same company because they would merge. cingular's towers aren't being destroyed if they merge nor t-mobiles towers. you guys act as if they merge the other companies towers would become obsolete! of course not. they would expand being able to put more money and all thoise towers would all be for that company so cingular/t-mobile/.att if thwey merge will have abigger broadened network. and since they will merge there will be more money to expand even meore when they have alreayd gotten bigger by epanidg becsuse all three companys towers would work for the company that the three became.

    ps aiwapro - deutsche telekom (in the newspapar) stated that they would like to sell their T-Mobile US branch anyway. [​IMG]
    they are currenrtly looking for a buyer.
     
  21. JBird

    JBird Junior Member
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    Where I live (So-Cal) T-Mobile is a JOKE. they should save some money by dropping Ms. Michael Douglas as their spokeswoman. and getting the Dell Guy

    "Dude, you're getting dropped calls!"
     
  22. JBird

    JBird Junior Member
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    Yeah, if Sprint merged with Verizon, us Sprint people would have 2 more phones we could get
    WOW!
    [​IMG]
     
  23. mrnokia

    mrnokia Senior Member
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    loL - catherine zeta jones does a good job at beiong t-mobiles "emblem" lOL. I just think they need a different format and approah of advertising on their commercials.
     
  24. aiwapro

    aiwapro Silver Senior Member
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    Hmmm, nooone else has ever complained about dropped calls by T-Mobile in anywhere in Cali.
     
  25. calbee

    calbee Junior Member
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    No dropped calls here!

    Perfectly content with T-Mobile -right here in SoCal!![​IMG]
     
  26. psycho

    psycho Junior Member
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    You make it sound like as if just becuase it's a joint venture that's not being publicly traded, it's under a shroud of secrecy. VZ STILL has to report this performance. It shows up on their investor reports. IT HAS A BEARING ON VZ STOCK VALUE.

    General results or not, it's not gonna be contradictory from the norm. They're not gonna make some fake report to look awesome (BAM, GTE --> VZ is traditionally very conservative in their reporting.) Their general reports are going, and are very representative of their overall performance.
     
  27. Matt

    Matt Twin girls!
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    psycho - I didn't say they were fake. They are not as complete (referring to the VZ Wireless part). If you are a subsidiary of a larger company, the rules are different. As an investor, I'm fairly versed in how this works. Verizon Communications does not have to go a complete reporting of the results of Verizon Wireless. SBC and Bell South did the same with Cingular up until a few months ago. Soon, we'll have access to a lot more info on Verizon Wireless.

    The "bottom line" numbers reported are accurate - I'm not commenting about what they report. The devil will be in the details - "how" they get to those numbers.
     
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  28. shoei

    shoei New Member

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    Actually, the rumor out there is that Cingular and T-Mobile are in talks to have a joint venture... Was with Cingular, did not have a problem with them (SoCalifornia area) but i needed more minutes, so contemplated T-Mobile, but went with AT&T GSM... Shoot, $99.99 a month and all the calls i can make suit me just fine... And that service isn't "as bad" as i thought it was going to be, so it's a nifty companion to go along with my Cingular service... (i use the AT&T during peak hours)
     
  29. Dukedog

    Dukedog Senior Member
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    I see that some people don't like the fact that, T-mobile and Cingular might merge; but you have to realize that both company would benefit from the merger. Cingular would really be able to complete as a national player, because they would gain 53 more market that they do not cover right now, and it will help give Cingular the spectrum they need to upgrade most market to GSM<GRPS<EDGE<WCDMA. T-mobile would benefit from the merger, especially on the operation cost it would have from being a stand alone company (from buildouts, call centers, advertisements,etc.). Also, some of you might not like Cingular or( SBC<Bellsouth), but let me tell you this, they are one of the brightest wireless company assemble---take all of this for instance( Nearly all the carrier (Top Six) cover more the the US than Cingular, except for Nextel I think; but Cingular have more subscriber than all, but Verizon. If you would put Cingular and Verizon side by side in every market that they share, Cingular would have more Customers in nearly all market that they compared. All i'm saying is that Cingular and T-mobile would make a great company.
     

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