iTunes 8.2.1 Reportedly Breaks Palm Pre Syncing

Apple Blocks Palm Pre iTunes Syncing | PreCentral.net


Earlier today, Apple released iTunes 8.2.1, describing the update only as providing "a number of important bug fixes and addresses an issue with verification of Apple devices." The notice regarding device verification has led to speculation that the update breaks the ability for the Palm Pre to sync directly with iTunes.

According to a posting at PreCentral and a report in our own forums, this is indeed the case, signaling the latest salvo in the ongoing dispute between Apple and Palm, which has hired a number of former Apple employees in recent years as it attempts to outdo the iPhone.

At least on this Mac, iTunes sync isn't working after the 8.2.1 update. We were wondering if this day would come after the back and forth between Apple and Palm on the issue. It's as-yet unclear exactly what method Apple is using to block Pre sync, but we suspect is wasn't easy. ...Which means we also suspect it might not be easy for Palm to turn it back on.

From Mac Rumors: Apple Mac Rumors and News You Care About

 

I agree with the article and others here that a simple solution is not to upgrade iTunes or use some other third party program. The problem would be for any protected movies, books, TV shows, or DRM music (if there still is some, since Apple dropped that )

But having been down that route with an MP3 player, my Nokia phone and also having an iPod, it's a pain to do, And eventually there will be a reason to upgrade iTunes, esp if you also are using an iPod. When I had my Palm PDA and my Nokia's it would really annoy me that I could not use Nokia Suite to synch my Palm calendar to the phone. There were third party solutions, but it was unreliable and a pain. Eventually, I started using Outlook (I hated Outlook, but the palm eventually went into the trash because of that). I'm sure the problem was an agreement between Microsoft and Nokia to exclude Palm.

This was Palm's response yesterday to the iTunes issue:

"Palm's media sync works with iTunes 8.2. If Apple chooses to disable media sync in iTunes, it will be a direct blow to their users who will be deprived of a seamless synchronization experience. However, people will have options. They can stay with the iTunes version that works to sync their music on their Pre, they can transfer the music via USB, and there are other third-party applications we can consider."

Now that is an interesting twist, implying that Apple will upset their users. Customers should be upset with Palm and Sprint because they actively sold the Pre to customers with the 'feature' of offering a synch with iTunes, without, apparently, getting any agreement, license, or other legal protocol from Apple to do so. Rightly or wrongly so, it is not a surprise that Apple did this. If Palm sought a legal agreement, the problem would be solved.

In that vein, I do not see how Apple has to worry about exclusivity of the iPod and iTunes and it being broken up. So I think InfoWorld remark is off the wall. Palm is a respectable company, and they made a legal mistake to advertise compatibility for something they had no legal agreement in place to support. They went after $$ sales over customer support. Let's be honest, a lot of people, and some on this forum, loved the fact that it would work with iTunes; they should be upset with Palm, not Apple. With some legal negotiations it may come back.

One of the overlooked reasons that the iPhone is so popular is the smooth link with iTunes. That was a strong attraction for me. Even though there are other music downloading options out there...iTunes is one I was using and liked. This is esp. true for those that have an investment with an iPod.

Anyway, don't shoot the messenger please! Just be careful not to upgrade iTunes.

 

At the risk of sounding too mac-ish, I think there is a reason.

Microsoft and Google are different companies than Apple. Apple is a hardware AND software company. Unlike MS, and Google, who have a lot to gain by having as many PC and Mac computers take their OS, software, and web based software on board; Apple, instead, makes hardware (PC, iPods, Cell Phones) that they primary develop software to support. There is no incentive to release their software for other hardware users.

Apple's software is not trying to prevent you from using your non-apple computer; they want you to use their hardware instead. "It's not personal, its business". Garmin doesn't sell their OS/software for Magellan or Tom-Tom hardware;Moto, Nokia or BB doesn't sell their OS (or Nokia's PCsuite) for Samsung; one can think of a dozen other examples outside of the cell phone industry: proprietary software for various consumer and industrial products are common place.

However, 10-14 years ago Apple was burdened by this hardware model; Before the first windows OS came out (that was a mac copy), Apple's decision not to place their OS on non-mac's PCs almost killed the company. Windows took off and that was almost the end of story for Apple.

But they recovered and found a comfortable niche market for themselves and are doing well. As long as they have a big investment in hardware, I doubt that it will change. If it does, a good portion of employees at Apple may have their jobs at risk. Of course, the other downside for Apple's model and profit margin has been the hardware in the past, compared to MS. Apple's capital investment is much larger than MS.

 

I guess you are right on the spot. The whole thing strikes me as strange...I can understand hackers, but not a company like Palm.

From Palm's web page yesterday:

Version information

* Version: webOS 1.1.0
* Release date: 23 July 2009
* Configuration: Sprint 1.7

Resolves an issue preventing media sync from working with latest version of iTunes (8.2.1).

From phonescoop.com:

Today Palm issued a large update to the webOS operating system on the Pre. webOS 1.1 brings Sprint's NFL application as well as a large number of fixes and/or updates to existing applications. Some of the applications seeing fixes are the calendar, camera, clock, contacts, email, messaging, phone, system software and web browser. webOS 1.1 also restores the Pre's ability to sync with Apple's iTunes software.

 

It makes total sense from a business angle. If Apple lets any mp3 player use iTunes, then they might has well get out of the hardware business, re iPods and then iTouches, and phone/ipod combination.

I think this is really making a legit company like Palm look rather third rate. But, probably in the short term, Apple really doesn't care since since Pre's sales are pretty dismal compared to iphones

 

Nope, it's just business, nothing personal

Meaning that when a GSM Pre comes out, then they will care a lot. I'm sure many mp3 player mgfr are watching this on the sidelines. Apple has an investment in hardware, not just software as I posted before. Their position is quite understandable.

Let me ask you a question about the Pre. Do you have to 'authorize' it when you synch your Pre with iTunes?

 

I trying to remember how this works. One can only authorize 5 computers to play their itune library, but can connect as many iPods they want to each computer. But I think the ipods much have you as owner, or otherwise, whoever the owner is much authorize that pc.

Probably a mute point in your case. Do you have any DR/M music that can't play on the pre?

 

So the big question: How did Palm re-enable iTunes sync? The answer, so far as we can tell, is to go even deeper in their efforts to make the Pre look like an iPod. I just plugged my 1.1 Pre into my Mac in Media Sync mode and sure enough, it's identifying itself with an Apple USB Vendor ID:

Product ID: 0x8002
Vendor ID: 0x05ac (Apple Inc.)
Version: 0.16
Manufacturer: Palm Inc.

The Pre is now telling your computer that the vendor who made it is Apple. The change here is that with previous versions of webOS, the Vendor ID was "0x0830 (Palm Inc.)." So while previously the Pre identified itself as a "mass storage device" called an iPod, now it's identifying itself as a "mass storage device manufactured by Apple" called an iPod.

Such use of another manufacturer's Vendor ID is "strictly prohibited" by the USB Implementers Forum:
When you apply for a USB Vendor ID, you sign a form that explicitly states that:

"Unauthorized use of assigned or unassigned USB Vendor ID Numbers and associated Product ID Numbers are strictly prohibited."

But Palm's violation didn't hinter it from filing a complaint first, claiming that it has reported Apple to the USB Implementers Forum for improper use of the Vendor ID used to identify devices using the USB interface.

"Palm has released webOS 1.1, which, along with offering more robust EAS support for business users, re-enables Palm media sync," said company spokesperson Lynn Fox. "Palm believes that openness and interoperability offer better experiences for users by allowing them the freedom to use the content they own without interference across devices and services, so on behalf of consumers, we have notified the USB Implementers Forum of what we believe is improper use of the Vendor ID number by another member."

Based on Palm's actions, it appears that the company believes that Apple's refusal to allow open access to iTunes via USB is a severe enough violation of the relatively open nature of the USB standards that it is willing to violate standards itself in order to work around Apple's restrictions.

From various sources: How Palm Re-Enabled iTunes Sync (The Plot Thickens) | PreCentral.net and Mac Rumors: Apple Mac Rumors and News You Care About

For us the real question is this: Why does Palm seem to suddenly have so much chutzpah? They fearlessly included multitouch gestures in the browser, Google Maps, and Photo gallery that other companies feared to include (hi T-Mobile G1, how are you?). Now with the Palm Pre literally appearing as an iPod, it's almost as though Palm is taunting Apple. Apple doesn't like being taunted.

we're increasingly getting the feeling that Palm is either trying to goad Apple into a legal showdown or they are so confident in their patent portfolio that they feel they can throw these features in Apple's face. Honestly -- BlackBerrys have had a iTunes sync app that worked pretty well and because it is a separate app, it avoids all these questions. Palm probably could have just as easily done that, but instead they went with direct iPod-imitating sync. If Apple decides to lawyer up, Palm likely feels they can simultaneously cry "monopoly!" and they have the smartphone patents to possibly make Apple back down. If they fail, well, if nothing else they'll be guaranteed gobs of free publicity.

All info from the links above. It will be fun to watch from the sidelines opcorn:
Palm is certainly going through a lot of effort to use iTunes when they could just give a good MP3 and let people use Amazon, etc