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Is CDMA Dying????

Discussion in 'GENERAL Wireless Discussion' started by pizzpoor, Nov 15, 2005.

  1. pizzpoor

    pizzpoor New Member

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    I am beginning to wonder if CDMA is a technology on the decline, or maybe even dying. My reasons for thinking this is: The phone selection for CDMA is weak and OLD. Every phone in Verizons Store is something I have seen 3 years ago. Have any of you noticed this? No cutting edge models (such as the razr or pebble, just to name a couple), that the GSM carriers seem to come out with monthly. I did check with Verizon on this and was assured that it was rediculous to think that. But it seems to me that Verizon has little control over whether CDMA lives or not...if phone manufacturers such as Motorola, LG, Samsung, etc stop making CDMA phones the technology will die on the vine. The reason I am told that no all new cdma models are introduced is that for every CDMA phone made,10 GSM phones are made and its used all over the world. Adding to my suspicions, is the little GSM SIM slot that I have begun seeing in the CDMA type phones. Verizon assures me that CDMA is here to stay, and that its the best technology, but I cant help noticing the GSM SIM slot in some of the newer CDMA phones which makes me wonder.
     
  2. Steve B

    Steve B Bronze Senior Member
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    Newbieville...........I will pass this golden opportunity right up.
     
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  3. Jay2TheRescue

    Jay2TheRescue Resident Spamslayer
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    Its kinda like the auto business. Yes there is a market for stationwagons, but there is a bigger market for SUV's. On top of that you make more profit on an SUV. Now as a automaker, which do you make, and what gets more R&D time & money? Its simple economics.

    Now you know why Verizon's lineup looks old and outdated.
     
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  4. MOTOhooligan

    MOTOhooligan Former Mobile Data Addict
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    The card slot in the back of some newer CDMA handsets is for an RUIM (removable user identity module) card, which is basically a CDMA SIM card. All a SIM card does is allow you to store your contacts, text messages and other subscriber-specific information to the card so you can changes handsets at will just be swapping out the card. Some newer CDMA handsets have a RUIM slot as it is hoped that CDMA carriers will adopt the RUIM technology as GSM carriers have because it is convenient for the users. The RUIM slot in CDMA handsets doesn't mean that they are able to use GSM networks, it is just a space for a card similar to the GSM SIM card.

    To answer your first question, yes, CDMA is dying. As is GSM. 3G (third generation) technologies are already starting to be deployed in the USA as they have been in Asia and Europe in the recent past. 4G is just over the horizon. When AMPS is finally killed in 2008, we'll probably be looking down the barrel of a digital standard that hasn't even been inveted yet. Personally, I can't wait.
     
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  5. agentHibby

    agentHibby Iowa Cellular Guru
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    Actually it is the other way around for now. Not much is being developed for GSM they are working on doing things for W-CDMA. That is GSM's future. There will be a few small things like to come out for GSM, but not that much. Phones that have more bells and whistles you will see for the next year. Probably in 2008 is when you will see the decline in GSM phones and people with Cingular and T-Mobile having change to W-CDMA phones.

    Hopefully by 2008 we will see a few phone that do both CDMA and W-CDMA so you could be on just about any network in the US.

    In the US there are allot more CDMA customers than GSM. In the world it’s the other way around, so manufacturers like Nokia and Motorola produce allot more GSM phones and they come out first. Qualcomm CDMA chips are bigger than GSM so if a phone is a big GSM hit they have to redesign the phone for CDMA. That can take 6-18 months to see the CDMA version this is why Cingular got the RAZR last Christmas and Verizon will probably have it this Christmas. Some companies like Sony Eriksson did not do well with CDMA in the US so they pulled out and do it only in Asia. So some reason Asia has some really cool flashy CDMA phones. Since they don't do PCS over there (1900 MHz) it is not in the phones and so no providers over here in the US will service them any more.
    I don't know if Verizon will be one day get pushed into doing R-UIM or not. With Nokia phones you see the place behind a battery where you can put a R-UIM card in. In Canada Telus Mobility is going that way. I think it would be a good idea for CDMA providers to have an R-UIM card, but Verizon likes to make money on phonebook transfers from old to new phones.
    CDMA will leave someday. So far it looks like OFDMA will be the successor for CDMA. This won't be happing until 1010 or later. So CDMA will be around at least until then.

    Hoped that answered everything.
     
  6. pizzpoor

    pizzpoor New Member

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    SBACKLIN, I admire youre restraint, bud.IFyou dont have anything useful to say, say nothing at all!
     
  7. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    Here we go. Can we leave the flame wars for howard forums, please? Wireless advisor is a happy place!
     
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  8. Steve B

    Steve B Bronze Senior Member
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    I do have useful things to say. However, just because it's useful doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't be considered rude and mods would object to that. However, that doesn't stop me from saying that there was something I did want to say. It's all trivial. Since everyone now is probably wondering what I saw so odd in your post. I will point it out. You talked about handsets that VZW is currently selling and those phones you saw three years ago. Obviously, VZW didn't have the current phones 3 years ago hence them being current. What you said is in obvious error. The kind of obvious error that makes me think "okay?". Also you talked about VZW using CDMA not having "cutting edge" models. Just because the certain phones became available on GSM doens't mean any CDMA phones aren't "cutting edge". Cutting Edge generally refers to technology being used in phones. VZW/CDMA phones are using "cutting edge" technology....bluetooth (granted it's crippled but its still there), megapixel cameras, etc. They are offering pretty much the same "goodies" as GSM phones. The SIM card is not what I would consider "cutting edge". The only real difference in the phones is that one currently uses a SIM the other doesn't currently offer it (carriers). VZW does somewhat cripple their phones. Other than that, they are pretty much the same. The VZW/CDMA phones have the ability to offer the same stuff as their GSM counterparts but the carrier chooses to disable some of those options. Other posts since your post have also explained some things. Finally, to answer your question, CDMA will be around until something better comes a long.
     
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  9. Matt

    Matt Twin girls!
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    Let's keep the replies on-topic. Thanks!
     
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  10. Jay2TheRescue

    Jay2TheRescue Resident Spamslayer
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    2010???????????????
     
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  11. pizzpoor

    pizzpoor New Member

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    Thats exactly right,VZ DIDNT have the phones 3 years ago...Somebody else (usually Cingular) DID. THATS what makes the DESIGN old. The number one complaint prospective customers have in my store are about the CDMA phones..poor selection, dont look very good, arent cool, etc etc. And as compared to the GSM phones, theyre right. I sell both products, and when given a choice, almost every customer will buy a GSM phone, simply because they LOOK better.,( whether they are or not is immaterial.) THis is a shame, because the best service in our mountainous area is with CDMA companies... VZ, US CELLULAR. So I hope you understand when I say "cutting edge" I mean estheticallly and not technologically., Most of our customers buy the PHONE they like best, even if they have to compromise on service, which is also a shame. But selling them on a V60 or a Samsung A670, or even those v710 v265 huge backward looking Motorola phones when they want a RAZR is tough sell indeed.
     
  12. Jay2TheRescue

    Jay2TheRescue Resident Spamslayer
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    Personally I think the V710 is probably the coolest phone in their lineup. Its a shame they've discontinued it. I love my GSM phone, but wouldn't be ashamed of having a V710.
     
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  13. ZaphodB

    ZaphodB Signal Go Down De Hole...
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    Ah, the usual CDMA vs. GSM wars. Let me dust off the usual standard:

    It doesn't matter what technology you choose, as long as the phone works for you. If you live in Bel Air, that is going to be Verizon (which is CDMA), because they're the only ones with towers. If you live in Lakeville, that is going to be Cingular (which is GSM), because Verizon haven't any towers up there.

    It always amazes me that people would choose aesthetically-pleasing phones that will end up as aesthetically-pleasing paperweights in their houses or offices or schools, rather than picking the service that suits them best and then picking the most aesthetically-pleasing phone offered by that service.
     
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  14. Gamer03

    Gamer03 Technology Aficionado
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    I don't think it is dying. Almost every one of my friends on my campus have either Verizon, Alltel (which is ok), and Sprint.

    In my family, I have Cingular (since I wanted to try out GSM for a year), and my parents and sister have Verizon.

    I was just glad we have two different carriers, since during Hurricane Wilma, my Cingular phone was a paperweight and our Verizon phones were barely useable (but they were our only communication since my Cingular phone wasn't working and our landline wasn't working (i.e. our corded landline since our cordless battery operated phones were dead)).

    Just my $0.02.
     
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  15. pizzpoor

    pizzpoor New Member

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    Aint that the dying truth Zaphod!!!!!!! SO youve seen this pick the phone THEN the service phenomenon too?? LoL!
     
  16. Fathead

    Fathead In the Industry
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    The whole CDMA phones aren't cool arguement is complete BS. go look at some of the south korean CDMA phones and that arguement dies. Sure, we don't get them here, but they exist, but Verizon has proven they don't need super cool phones to be profitable, so they don't have them.

    And then there is the fact that Sprint had some pretty freaking cool phones there for a while, all of which were CDMA.
     
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  17. pizzpoor

    pizzpoor New Member

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    Ill buy that fathead, now you go and convince the customers I deal with everyday the same thing and youll be my hero. Its like selling a customer who wants a mercedes a buick.
     
  18. Jay2TheRescue

    Jay2TheRescue Resident Spamslayer
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    Verizon's lineup doesn't appear old, its Retro... LOL

    My Mom just got a new CDMA phone, a Motorola V60. As a Cingular customer I got rid of my V60 a year ago!
     
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  19. ZaphodB

    ZaphodB Signal Go Down De Hole...
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    To take your analogy a little further, though, it's like trying to convince customers in a region that they don't want a diesel-engine Mercedes because there aren't any diesel pumps for fifty miles, and wouldn't they prefer a petrol-engine Buick instead?
     
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  20. Jay2TheRescue

    Jay2TheRescue Resident Spamslayer
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    OFF TOPIC (Slightly): I love my Buick. I've had it for about 16 years now. (And it wasn't new when I got it!)
     
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  21. pizzpoor

    pizzpoor New Member

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    HEY! I never thought of that angle! Ill just tell customers that VZ is going to the retro look! After all I do have a sign in my store that says "I BUY JUNK AND SELL ANTIQUES! LOL
     
  22. Bugwart

    Bugwart Bronze Senior Member
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    Is CDMA dying? Hmmm let's see where the largest CDMA providers are located.

    Verizon is number 1.
    Number 2 is KDDI au
    Number 3 is SK Telecom
    Number 4 is China Unicom

    This is strictly defining CDMA as CDMA 2000 not as wCDMA (UMTS).

    I will refrain from saying more.
     
  23. Bugwart

    Bugwart Bronze Senior Member
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    I can't resist.

    Candy bars are really retro. My first handset in 1992 was a candy bar (OKI 900), a big one, but still a candy bar. Flip phones came out much later.
     
  24. pizzpoor

    pizzpoor New Member

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    Well I hope China Telecom and all those other CDMA providers in all those other countries are able to get good quality up-to-date CDMA phones over there, as they sure arent available here. My concern is not with CDMA service, as I figure CDMA is as good as any, but they need to get in the 21st century with their handset selection. Does anybody that has read this thread disagree that the GSM phones are in fact smaller, newer and better looking and cheaper as compared to CDMA? Ive heard it in my store so often that I have gotten sick of it. I thought Id see what all of you experts think.
     
  25. ZaphodB

    ZaphodB Signal Go Down De Hole...
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    I'm still stuck in the 90s, then, because I want my phone to be a phone. I don't want my phone to be a camera, I don't want it to be an iPod, I don't want it to be a radio, I don't want it to be an e-mail device, I don't want it to be a web terminal, I don't want it to be a PDA, I don't want it to be a WiFi receiver. I have a camera, an iPod, several radios, and a laptop with WiFi and all my addresses and phone numbers in it.

    All I want out of a phone is for it to have good RF and voice quality, and not have a stupidly-designed menu system. Actually, since camera phones are still banned at my place of employment, it has become harder and harder for me to find phones that I can buy, even from Verizon.
     
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  26. MOTOhooligan

    MOTOhooligan Former Mobile Data Addict
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    I heard that, Zaph! I would still have my Timeport P8197 if they didn't make me switch to an E911 capable phone. But that's okay because I changed to a Nokia 6015i which is a good, basic phone with great RF, too.

    Hey, my Timeport brings up another interesting question... is TDMA dying or dead?:lmao:
     
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  27. Jay2TheRescue

    Jay2TheRescue Resident Spamslayer
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    Cingular is putting the nail in the coffin on TDMA as we speak. In another year or so TDMA will probably be gone. As it is now we've noticed TDMA sites dissapearing here in NoVa. My brother in law still is trying to hold onto his V60 though. I keep telling him to upgrade to GSM and he'd get better service. I think we have him sold on the Razr, as soon as the price comes down a little more he's gonna upgrade.
     
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  28. wgray8231

    wgray8231 I don't work here.
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    I'll throw my hat into the ring.

    GSM phones are smaller b/c the chips are smaller. You can't get around this.

    I don't think VZW phones look old or out-dated, but their selection is slim. Everything looks the same with not enough variety in features.
     
  29. jrip

    jrip Senior Member
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    Both GSM and CDMA are going bye-bye. The technology that is relacing them is not a single technonlgy but a mixture of very different technologies. That the protocols for are being re-written for to make them fuly compatable. You see there is not a single technology out there (at this time) that can replace both GSM and CDMA. As each has very ditsinct advantages over the other. But there is different technologies that are far more efficient in specific areas. And each is being leveraged in those areas. As far as VZW's lineup goes...last I heard they were done after EV-DO. As EV-DO accomplishes everything they are interested in. This may change but VZW wil be so far behind, their efforts would be futile. As VZW lost all interest in WI-MAX even and pulled out WI-MAX forum a while ago, because EV-DO was good enough for them. For other carriers that is not the case. EV-DO wont even make a ripple in the pond of whats to come.
     
  30. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    GSM users wont have to 'throw away' phones in 2008. Nor will current CDMA phones work on the new 3G GSM W-CMDA network.

    Instead the 1 billion plus GSM users will have a seamless move to '3GSM' over a period of years, while maintaining backward compatability in handsets. Already GSM + 3GSM phones are on the market.

    The SIM card feature will remain, and if you want to ride the wave of uninterrupted, true global communication to 3G, the GSM platform will get you there, and will continue to dominate in the manufacturing of the coolest, newest phones.

    I don't think that answers your question about 'CDMA dying', but I think it addresses your question about who will continue to have the 'coolest' phones.

    To avoid confusion, or to add to it, the GSM community now calls WCDMA (or UMTS) = 3GSM. I paraphrase from www.gsmworld.com

    viewfly

    What is 3GSM?

    To alleviate this confusion and to highlight the backward compatibility of the system with second generation GSM, the GSM Association now refers to UMTS/W-CDMA systems as 3GSM.

    3GSM is the latest addition to the GSM family.

    The technology on which 3GSM services will be delivered is built around a core GSM network with a Wideband-CDMA (W-CDMA) air interface, which has been developed as an open standard by operators in conjunction with the 3GPP standards development organisation. Already over 85% of the world's network operators have chosen 3GSM's underlying technology platform to deliver their third generation services. 3GSM is a key element of GSM-The Wireless Evolution.

    The GSM Association's vision of 3GSM is based on today's GSM standard, but evolved, extended and enhanced to include an additional radio air interface, better suited for high speed and multimedia data services. This system will enable users of current second generation GSM wireless networks to migrate easily to the new third generation services, with minimal disruption.


    Will my current mobile cease to work when 3GSM Services are launched?

    Second and third generation systems are likely to co-exist for a significant period of time. 3GSM services are being introduced in addition to, and not as a straight replacement for, 2G services. This means that existing 2G terminals will continue to work for as long as significant numbers of customers are using them, or until the period for which an operator is licensed to operate its 2G service expires. In both cases, this is likely to be many years.

    Will I be able to receive 3GSM services from my current mobile?

    3GSM is a new technology and therefore you will not be able to access 3GSM services using your existing GSM terminal. However, 3GSM has been designed to be backward compatible which means that you can continue to enjoy the coverage and service levels delivered by GSM from a 3GSM handset, while experiencing 3GSM services where they are available. It will be up to you to chose if you need to use the 3GSM services, and need to upgrade your mobile to be able to use these services.

    So lets' follow the new terminology and call it 3GSM...at least until they change it again,:)
     

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