Interesting difference between 32K & 64K SIM

Here is my understanding of this:

Before the two networks are fully integrated:

A non ENS phone will always be on the network it was originally programmed for.

An ENS phone with a 32K SIM will favor the network it was originally intended for, and with a 64K SIM will be diverted to whichever network has low load for load balancing purposes, irrespective of signal strength.

So if the RAZR is ENS capable with a 64K SIM it was seeking the less loaded network which also had poorer signal in that case.


After the merger is complete:

I have 2 conflicting pieces of information on this. One is that it is not going to matter what SIM card or if the phone is ENS capable, it is always going to seek out the stronger network. The second one is that only with a 64K SIM and an ENS capable phone will it seek out the stronger network. To me the second one makes more sense.

It will be interesting to found out if the RAZR is ENS capable then it will lend some validity to the above.

 

If you hack the phone it can become ENS capable. The phone I did this one was unbranded so I don't know if it would be removed with the Cingular software or not. I also don't know if it really worked or not since I haven't been to a area with both networks still operational.

 

In theory yes, but I think once a tower is picked, the call remains connected to that tower even if the load lessens. In an area where one is significantly stronger (in my case orange is) it is not unusual for the 64K SIM to be always picking up the other one.

The one thing that I am not quite sure about your friends situation is seems like the 32K is programmed for "Blue", has no choice making capability and remains on Blue, but why and how did a SIM from E Bay get programmed for what works for him. Did he just lucky?

I am looking forward to you letting me know more details.

 

I have a 32K sim. When I upgraded in June I didn't get a new one for some reason, oh well. The 32k works fine.

S710a: ENS capable. It will flip to ATT whenever the Orange network gets weak. Pretty nice, but doesn't always work well. I worry that it might switch back and forth a lot in my pocket and miss calls in certain areas. It always prefers ATT at my friends house, Orange is like -80db, but it prefers the ATT tower 2 blocks away. I could see ENS being a major hassle with a 64k card, it seems like it would make it flip even more.

Non ENS: Stays on Orange almost exclusively. It will flip to ATT only when *all* signal is lost. Includes s307 and v400 anyway. I kinda perfer this really.

They just need to get 'blue' towers on the orange network!

 

Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought that the 64k sim was a means of making non-ENS phones function as if they were ENS. Adding a 64k sim to an ENS phone would likely lead to frequent network switching.

Apparently ENS phones do not require a 64 k sim as when I bought my V551 last winter, and upgraded to GSM (from a V60t) I was sold a V551 w/ a 32k sim.

I envision both trying to control what network the phone was on and the end result would be poorer service.

This reminds me of my old Pontiac which had 2 cruise controls installed on it. (Don't ask - long story) Anyway it was a thing I did to relieve boredom on long trips - set both cruise controls and let them battle it out. It was fun and amusing, but in the end it did not result in anyting closely resembling a smooth ride.

 

I like your cruise control story but I am 99.989% (sorry had to leave myself a "cya")that a 64K SIM and an ENS phone have to be used together. One without the other will be the same as a non ENS phone with a 32K SIM.

If you do a search either here or on HoFo, there is lots of info on these two. I personally think there is way too much info and not all of it fact.

 

I don't really care about the specifics of the 64k SIM and ENS...I just know that before I SEEM edited my V551 to allow for manual network selection my phone would ALWAYS prefer a -104 db (the V551 will drop signal at -106db) Orange signal to a -72db Blue signal at home. Infuriating!

 

This is a little confusing.... :loony:

I have a 6230 that I had unlocked and it uses a 32K sim and I have been noticing some signal strength and call drop issues. Should I be concerned or what?

 

One simple fact: GSM phones DO NOT prefer networks. This is entirely controlled by the SIM card. Whichever network the phone prefers is because the SIM card is telling the phone what to do.

Once the networks are integrated there will no longer be a "stronger" or "weaker" network. Both networks will become one, so there won't be any issues with which network is preferred or which one is stronger. That's what integration is all about: making two networks become ONE single network. That being said, once the network merger is complete everything will go back as it was before Cingular bought AWS (in terms of network selection/availability), except that there will be MUCH more towers because Cingular is taking each and every tower from the former AT&T Wireless and converting it to a Cingular tower. It's like disconnecting the tower from the blue network and reconnecting it to the orange network. So in the end it will be ONE SINGLE orange network and the blue network will be left without any towers. This means it won't matter which SIM card you have, or whether you have ENS or not. ENS will be obsolete and no longer needed after integration is complete.

 

bobolito, I am so glad you verified this. As I mentioned in my post I was getting conflicting information about the "After" scenario.

Since I have a non ENS phone with a 32K SIM, I am specially glad to know that this won't matter after integration is complete.

Thank you very much for your clarification.

 

No, not unless you are looking for an excuse to get a new phone... .

 

The only thing that will happen in the "After" scenario is that the fully integrated network will all have a MNC of 310-410 nationwide. This means that those users with SIM cards that home in 380, 150 or 170 network will possibly have some side-effects:

- At power on, the phone will take longer than normal to find a network.

- Your battery life may be shorter as the phone periodically scans for its "Home" network which is NOT 410.

- In some areas, your phone may prefer a roaming partner even though a native Cingular signal is available.

In the end, the best thing to do to avoid these minor issues is to get a SIM card whose first 7 digits are 8901410, in other words, a SIM card that "homes" on the Genesis (410) network.

 

bobolito, I just checked my SIM card and the first 7 digits are 8901410, thank you, thank you, thank you.......

 

Wonder why my s710a will more readily flip over to blue...

I guess it just loses signal faster and aquires ATT more? No way in heck should it lose signal at my friends place though.

 

well my sim card the first seven digits are 8901410

 

Question, but Cingular is not going to maintain ALL the towers correct? They will shutdown ones they feel not necessary?

 

They did get a batch of bad 64k cards from the manufacturer. Many people have been reporting problems with them and getting new SIMs solved their problems. They were causing everything from poor reception to SIM REJECTED in their phones. Don't know if the replacements they are getting are 32k or 64k, but Cingular did admit they had a bad batch of SIMs.

 

I've heard others in this forum who reside in areas where integration is completed say that no towers were decomissioned. This may not be true in all areas though. I would think some redundant towers will probably be shut down.

 

Yes, redundant "towers" will be shut down. It saves on leases, cell site equipment, antennas, etc.:browani:

 

So... here's the summary of my equipment and specs:

64K SIM card
Have a nokia 7210 that runs on 1900 and (900/1800) originally from SunCom
Also have a spare Siemens SL55 bought off of e-bay originally comissioned to ATT Wireless... runs on 850/1900

I live in SC where using my 1900 nokia posed no problem. Haven't had any problems w/dropped calls. While roaming through northern GA and ATL last week, however, my nokia would sometimes not display any carriers/signal. In ATL, the phone would drop calls consistently. I had the spare Siemens in the glove compartment and charged it up... So, here's what happened.. I no longer had problems in finding a signal. The phone always reported "cingular" as being available. I did, however, have dropped calls (although on a much more limited basis... really, just one on I-85). Anywho.. so I'm confused by this whole ENS/64K card issue. I"m assuming that the reason for the dropped calls with the nokia is due to some sort of mixed cingular system in ATL where calls are handed off from 850 to 1900 and vice versa... so, if I didn't have 850, my 1900-only nokia would just not be able to switch and calls would drop. I'm wondering whether or not my old, old Siemens 850/1900 merely juggled the two bands (assuming it doesn't have ENS... I mean, it's so old), or that the 64K sim card somehow provided the instructions for alternating blue/orange.... .. So, since I have such old phones, would they work better with a 32k card? Do 64k cards work only with ENS phones? or... since I don't have an ENS phone, does my service have more features by having the 64k card?

I don't roam much now and so my nokia does the job in SC.. seems like cingular runs 1900 networks all over the state..

I do have a t-mobile branded RAZR that is coming in the mail and I plan on modifying its os and stuff... was wondering whether or not it's imperative to get the ENS feature uploaded to it.. or whether it is fine with the 64k card alone.

 

Having a 64k sim does nothing special for you in either phone. You had a 1900 only phone, and a phone that was so old it didn't have ENS, so the load management software couldn't run on it anyway. Having only 1900 would cut you off from half the towers - depending on your location this could be a problem. In my local area I use 1900 at home & at work, but if I travel I enable 850. This solution works for me. YMMV.

-Jay

 

i got a new sim the other day that is 3g, orange on one side, and blue on the other. and its a gemplus. 890141032005........

 

Are the 3G Sim cards different? I figured the card would be the same, the phone would be the difference.

-Jay

 

Wirelessly posted (Walkguru's: Nokia6682/2.0 (3.01.1) SymbianOS/8.0 Series60/2.6 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 UP.Link/6.3.0.0.0)

Yeah but dont ask me what the diff. Is.
It helps with the 6682.

 

Jay,

Just last week I bought my daughter a Firefly from Cingular. While I was there, I upgraded to a 3G Sim. I have not noticed any significant difference for my 6682, and honestly, I wasn't looking for one. I did it based on a few conversations that Charlyee and I had concerning the Nokia N80 that will be released early this year. I just wanted to be "All Geared Up" for that awesome phone. Again, the 3G has NO distinct advantage for any non 3G phone, as far as I can see!