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GSM/UMTS/HSPDA Faster than CDMA 1X EV-DO

Discussion in 'GENERAL Wireless Discussion' started by jones, Dec 4, 2004.

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  1. jones

    jones Silver Senior Member
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    Cingular to Deliver 3G Wireless Broadband Services

    Completion of Merger Provides Spectrum to Facilitate Widespread Growth of 3G
    Services Nationwide; Consumers to Enjoy More Choices for Broadband Access;
    Network Improvements and Integration Under Way

    Ericsson, Lucent Technologies and Siemens selected to deploy UMTS/HSDPA
    network throughout areas of the United States

    ATLANTA, Nov. 30 /PRNewswire/ -- Cingular Wireless, the nation's largest
    wireless provider, today announced plans to begin deploying the nation's
    fastest high-speed mobile wireless data network based on international
    standards. The third generation network will offer average data speeds between
    400-700 kilobits per second (Kbps), and bursts to several megabits per second
    on capable devices.
    Cingular, a joint venture of SBC Communications Inc. (NYSE: SBC) and
    BellSouth Corp. (NYSE: BLS), will be building 3G UMTS (Universal Mobile
    Telecommunications System) with HSDPA (High Speed Downlink Packet Access)
    networks in a number of major urban and suburban markets beginning in 2005.
    Cingular's recent acquisition of AT&T Wireless provided the company with
    the spectrum necessary to build the 3G networks. Cingular, which pioneered the
    development of GSM at both 850 and 1900 MHz, intends to make the high-speed
    network available to not only its regional and rural roaming partners but also
    enable regional and rural carriers to deploy UMTS services on their networks
    as well.
    Cingular signed agreements with Ericsson (Nasdaq: ERICY), Lucent
    Technologies (NYSE: LU) and Siemens (NYSE: SI) to develop and deliver the
    infrastructure required for a broad-scale deployment of an expanded 3G
    UMTS/HSDPA network. Additionally, several manufacturers have committed to
    supplying handsets and other devices for use on the UMTS network. Cingular
    said it expects to offer 3G services in most major markets by the end of 2006.
    "Today's announcement marks a significant milestone in our commitment to
    speed the deployment of third-generation wireless services across the nation,"
    said Kris Rinne, chief technical officer, Cingular Wireless. "The selection
    of these vendors will bring tremendous intellectual capital to the team as we
    work to achieve our common goal to bring the next generation of mobile
    multimedia services to consumers and businesses."
    The UMTS/HSDPA service will enable enhanced services, including broadband-
    capable high-speed Internet access, wirelessly enabled enterprise productivity
    tools and audio/video streaming for business customers, along with a host of
    consumer services such as high-resolution digital image and video capture and
    playback and advanced multi-player gaming.
    Additionally, UMTS/HSDPA offers customers the ability to have simultaneous
    voice and data sessions, so a customer can use a handset to make a call at the
    same time they're checking e-mail or browsing the Internet at high speeds.
    This is a key differentiator between UMTS/HSDPA and other wireless
    technologies that only offer data services.
    Ericsson, Lucent and Siemens will provide the equipment necessary to give
    customers access to some of the fastest wireless data connections available.
    Cingular also signed an agreement with Nokia (NYSE: NOK) to enhance its
    existing GSM/GPRS/EDGE network and possibly support the deployment of its 3G
    UMTS network. Financial terms of the contracts were not disclosed. In
    addition, Cingular's strategic handset providers -- Nokia, Motorola and LG --
    have committed to delivery of competitive UMTS devices in the fourth quarter
    of 2005 with attractive form factors and feature functionality that takes
    advantage of the increased data speeds.
    With the completion of its merger with AT&T Wireless, Cingular now
    operates the nation's largest digital voice and data network with nationwide
    coverage. The new company's enhanced spectrum position and combined network
    assets pave the way for the rollout of UMTS/HSDPA and give Cingular customers
    a more expansive portfolio of wireless data solutions.
    Currently, Cingular customers can use EDGE, the fastest nationwide
    wireless data network, to receive average data connection speeds up to
    135 kilobits per second depending on the device used. EDGE is available to
    over 260 million people in more than 8,500 cities and towns, and in areas
    along 30,000 miles of interstate highways. In the near future, UMTS devices
    will be backward compatible with EDGE.
    Earlier this year, AT&T Wireless launched the country's first commercial
    UMTS wireless networks in Dallas, Detroit, Phoenix, San Diego, San Francisco
    and Seattle. Cingular will continue to offer UMTS services in those six
    markets.
    "The investments we're making today will pay big dividends for our company
    and our customers as wireless becomes more integral to our everyday lives,"
    said Rinne. "These companies have the expertise to put a network in place
    that will turn the promise of 3G into reality."
    Rinne added that Cingular already gives its customers access to some of
    the most advanced wireless voice and data services in the world on the largest
    digital voice and data network -- the Cingular ALLOVER(SM) network. Cingular's
    ALLOVER(SM) network covers 268 million people and is growing. Coverage is not
    available in all areas.

    Network Planning and Integration Under Way
    Cingular today also said it has started integration planning of the
    combined company's networks.
    More immediately, customers will experience a number of benefits from the
    network integration, as the coverage and quality of their wireless services
    are enhanced. Further improvements will steadily continue over the next
    several months. The company said customers using its ALLOVER(SM) network
    should expect fewer blocked calls and better in-building penetration.
    "Network improvement is the cornerstone of our merger with AT&T Wireless,"
    continued Rinne. "If the network gives customers a great experience, every
    other function of the business feels the positive effects. The combination of
    the two companies' network assets positions Cingular to set a new standard for
    network excellence and raise the bar for wireless. We're ready to put our
    extensive voice and data experience to work to deliver the quality wireless
    experience our customers deserve."

    ABOUT CINGULAR WIRELESS
    Cingular Wireless is the largest wireless carrier in the United States,
    serving more than 46 million customers. Cingular, a joint venture between SBC
    Communications (NYSE: SBC) and BellSouth (NYSE: BLS), has the largest digital
    voice and data network in the nation. Cingular is the only U.S. wireless
    carrier to offer Rollover(SM), the wireless plan that lets customers keep
    their unused monthly minutes. Details of the company are available
    at http://www.cingular.com . Get Cingular Wireless press releases e-mailed to
    you automatically. Sign up at http://www.cingular.com/newsroom .

    SOURCE Cingular Wireless
     
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    #1 jones, Dec 4, 2004
  2. agentHibby

    agentHibby Iowa Cellular Guru
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    Great News For WCDMA!!! :notworthy :highclap: :hero:

    But all they need is this Chip and world as whole will be a better place. :rasp:
     
    #2 agentHibby, Dec 4, 2004
  3. SNSE

    SNSE Senior Member
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    Now, we'll see what happens when it is actually deployed.....not being cynical...just cautious.......out in the market is a whole different ball of wax than the lab...... :cool:
     
    #3 SNSE, Dec 4, 2004
  4. Bugwart

    Bugwart Bronze Senior Member
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    Jones, Before assuming that all the forecasts are correct, let's let Cingular get at least a little of their HSDPA network built and operating. So far all the claims for wireless data speed have been overblown - some much more than others.

    I will reserve judgement until we have some HSDPA networks in commercial operation.
     
    #4 Bugwart, Dec 4, 2004
  5. jones

    jones Silver Senior Member
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    Though EV-DO has proven to be faster than UMTS in most field trials, HSPDA is expected to raise the bar.
    The technology has a theoretical download ceiling of 14 Mb/s, but carriers are targeting average throughputs of 400 kb/s to 700 kb/s compared to EV-DO’s 300 kb/s to 500 kb/s.
    HSDPA’s lower latency, however, would give it additional speed advantages, allowing for faster loading of Web content and even the possibility of VoIP.
     
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    #5 jones, Dec 5, 2004
  6. Bugwart

    Bugwart Bronze Senior Member
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    UMTS is limited by available hardware to a downlink of 384 kbps. HSDPA will make it faster, but how big will the battery need to be to take full advantage of the ultra-high speed (and still provide reasonable usage times)? Perhaps current battery technology will limit the maximum practical speed for HSDPA.

    By looking at DSL Reports' archives, EV-DO is quite a bit faster than UMTS. Remember, that this is Release O. Release A is much faster, particularly in the uplink, and will be deployed at roughly the same time as Cingular is deploying HSDPA.

    But until the systems are deployed, we will not know how EV-DO Release A compares to HSDPA. I think that I can safely say one thing however: no matter which system turns out to be the fastest, the consumer will win! :browani:
     
    #6 Bugwart, Dec 6, 2004
  7. hillbilly44

    hillbilly44 Senior Member
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    Actually the new Novatel/Merlin UMTS card will take a max download speed of 14.4mbps. I have seen real world speeds (not in a lab) of 816kbps on several sites that were "loaded" with traffic. I think you see real speeds around the 600-700kbps range when they are up and running. EV-DO is running a little slower but neither EV-DO or UMTS will "run" at their max through-put speeds like any other type of network. The amount of users will limit the speeds. Also, the 384kbps is with some of the phones DoMoCo was using in Japan. :browani:
     
    #7 hillbilly44, Dec 6, 2004
  8. jones

    jones Silver Senior Member
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    UMTS/HSDPA wireless network technology offers broadband Internet access, enterprise tools and audio/video streaming for businesses. Simultaneous voice and data sessions enable customers to make a call while browsing the Web, for example, which separates UMTS/HSDPA from data-only wireless technologies.
     
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    #8 jones, Dec 7, 2004
  9. Bugwart

    Bugwart Bronze Senior Member
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    When something is in the future (like commercial HSDPA), one should use future tense or conditional mode, not present tense.

    BTW, did you see the front page WSJ article on the new HTC EV-DO handset that Verizon is offering? The writer had some very nice things to say about EV-DO's real life (as opposed to laboratory) speed. He was actually using the handset in the field. This is a commercially available handset running on a commercial EV-DO network, being used by a WSJ reporter, not a wireless company employee.

    Jones, If you have a similar report on a commercial HSDPA network/handset/user, please post it here.
     
    #9 Bugwart, Dec 17, 2004
  10. Bugwart

    Bugwart Bronze Senior Member
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    That is great!

    I tried to find where UMTS is deployed in the US by going to the Cingular web site. No luck. Where is it running today?

    I agree that DoCoMo states the limit of 384 kbps downlink on their website. My understanding is that the European deployment of UMTS is limited to 384 kbps also, but this is a bandwidth issue. The landlines in much of Europe may not be capable of supporting the sort of band width that we take for granted in North America and East Asia.
     
    #10 Bugwart, Dec 17, 2004
  11. COtech

    COtech Bronze Senior Member
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    I went to the ATTWS website, and checked their press releases. You want this one. It's operating in Detroit, Phoenix, San Francisco, Seattle, Dallas and San Diego. You'll need your Motorola A845 or Nokia 6651 1900 MHz UMTS only handset.

    COtech
     
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    #11 COtech, Dec 17, 2004
  12. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    At least there's something that we are more technologically advanced than in Europe. :)
     
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    #12 bobolito, Dec 18, 2004
  13. Bugwart

    Bugwart Bronze Senior Member
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    Thanks
    The AT&T press release states:
     
    #13 Bugwart, Dec 18, 2004
  14. jones

    jones Silver Senior Member
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    This is without the HSPDA Upgrade.
    With the HSPDA Upgrade it is 500-700 kbps and can be further Increased in the Future.
     
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    #14 jones, Dec 21, 2004
  15. dwargo

    dwargo New Member

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    UMTS/HSPDA rocking right along in Portland!

    Hey folks!

    I'm an indie contractor out of Portland, OR, recently took a job collecting data for lucent RF engineers on the UMTS network cingular is building in Portland.. R99, the 'non upgraded' version, as one of you put it, is averaging about 380 kbps in the greater Portland area, with moments pushing 500 kbps... HSDPA is averaging about 900 kbps, with bursts to around 1800-2100 kbps.. The engineers tell me that for their job they dont realy need to test any faster because the scanners know the signal strength well enough, so when they add more bandwith (T1's I'm assuming) they expect at the very least to be getting bursts at just shy of 3000 kbps before the network goes public.. The prototype phones we use for testing are expensive pieces of crap, but I was recently shown the newer version proto and it's pretty damned nifty... The camera rolls on the flip joint so you can aim it at yourself and do video conferencing, and has all the bells and whistles youd expect.. The engineers are realy expecting better then what we are getting now but its still early... so we will see...

    I'm somewhat new to this market, being more of a *nix networking goon, so if any of you have any white papers, or better yet rfc style descriptions, please point me in the right direction (links, etc), only things I have been able to find are position papers and comparative stuff... I didnt even know what CDMA was till 3 weeks ago :) ... I hate cell phones! lol... may have to buy one now tho hehe...

    Cheers!
    Doug
     
    #15 dwargo, Jan 15, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2006
  16. dwargo

    dwargo New Member

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    And on that last note...

    If your already replying to the last one save me yet a millionth thread on the net and dish out some more advice :p

    UMTS + PDA or Pocket PC = ?
    GSM + same = ?

    Best bang for the buck? I've seen many GSM models of that type yet plans, price and networks vary so much that I'm having a hard time deciding how much is realy worth spending on the device itself.

    Eventualy I was planning to buy some sort of blue tooth and proc'ed pad but hadnt decided on a type. Is it better to get them seperate for battery life reasons? Or what shouldn't I buy no matter the price?

    --- Or in other words ---

    What do you have in *YOUR* pocket.

    Doug
     
    #16 dwargo, Jan 15, 2006
  17. jones

    jones Silver Senior Member
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    Re: UMTS/HSPDA rocking right along in Portland!

    Hope VZW Cheerleaders read this.
     
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    #17 jones, Jan 15, 2006
  18. coalminer

    coalminer Senior Member
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    Re: UMTS/HSPDA rocking right along in Portland!

    You crack me up Jones, of coarse UMTS/HSPDA is going to have a faster download speed, or at least it better because it uses 4 times the bandwidth of EVDO.

    I wouldnt call myself a Verizon cheerleader, but I am a CDMA fan, and I have a EVDO card that works great, when it comes down to Cingular getting a high speed card (and enough coverage to make it worth while) I will get one so that at our regional meetings we will be covered. I cant wait to personally test them side by side, because lets face it, UMTS/HSPDA is built on the same basic principles as EVDO, except it uses more bandwidth.

    Case in point, here in Cleveland, Sprint owns the PCS D block, which is 10Mhz, they are running EVDO already here. T-Mobile owns the PCS E block which is also 10mhz, how are they going to upgrade to UMTS? The answer is they cant at the moment (although they might have another 10Mhz in the C block, I think the company that bid on that for Cleveland was one of the fronts for T-Mobile)

    Cingular on the other hand has plenty of bandwidth here, they own the A and B block, which are 30Mhz each, even with still having a TDMA and GSM network running, they can easily add UMTS to their towers.

    But the question is, will they and when, we already have 3 companys that offer EVDO here, Verizon, Sprint and Alltel.
     
    #18 coalminer, Jan 15, 2006
  19. agentHibby

    agentHibby Iowa Cellular Guru
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    I don't want to get into CDMA 2000 Vs WCDMA but when EV-DO rev B comes out (probably we won't see in the US) it will be:

    73.5 Mbps in the forward link ~9.18 MBps
    27 Mbps in the reverse link = 3.375 MBps

    It is 20 MHz spread! [​IMG]

    (15)1.25MHz

    This is still a few years away (2008) until we hear anything about a wireless provider overseas launching this.

    Just shows there will always be something faster in the works.
     
    #19 agentHibby, Jan 15, 2006
  20. jones

    jones Silver Senior Member
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    Re: UMTS/HSPDA rocking right along in Portland!

    I'll crack you up even more.
    GSM is deployed in more than 210 Countries,
    which have pledge their Deployment to WCDMA.
    Not what the 3 companys have in your Area.
     
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    #20 jones, Jan 16, 2006
  21. coalminer

    coalminer Senior Member
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    Re: UMTS/HSPDA rocking right along in Portland!

    Thats not what I meant, what I am wondering is if Cingular is going to spend the money to add UMTS to their network in Cleveland, since there are already 3 EVDO networks to chose from.

    And when it comes to WCDMA becoming more widespread, I believe the roaming thing will become less of an issue because I think they will have more and more phones/pc cards that can operate on both EVDO and UMTS.
     
    #21 coalminer, Jan 16, 2006
  22. hillbilly44

    hillbilly44 Senior Member
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    Re: UMTS/HSPDA rocking right along in Portland!

    coalminer;

    Last I heard it should be sometime in September for the Cleveland area. It would have been sooner but Siemens has been booted as a UMTS vendor so Cingular has to decide who there going to use. Best guess is Ericsson!;)
     
    #22 hillbilly44, Jan 16, 2006
  23. dwargo

    dwargo New Member

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    Re: UMTS/HSPDA rocking right along in Portland!

    Keep in mind UMTS is big over seas. Cingular's partners are going to want their product to be sellable in those markets with nothing more complicated then a firmware change.. At least that'd be how I'd reason if I were them.

    As for the gentleman talking about EVDO rev b to appear in 2008, well thats not in the least suprising. Tech always seems to change in short (2 years-ish?) spans. No doubt there will be a UMTS rev B by 2010 :)

    Or maybe I dont know what the heck I'm talking about which, honestly, is most likely.

    Cheers!
    Doug
     
    #23 dwargo, Jan 16, 2006
  24. dwargo

    dwargo New Member

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    Re: UMTS/HSPDA rocking right along in Portland!

    My guess wouldnt be. And the names on the proto types might not be something they'd be wanting me to say :p

    If you realy care I will ask to make sure its no secret.. Until then those fellas may actualy read these forums so... :)
     
    #24 dwargo, Jan 16, 2006
  25. jones

    jones Silver Senior Member
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    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #25 jones, Jan 17, 2006
  26. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    Re: UMTS/HSPDA rocking right along in Portland!

    Looks like HDSPA will be too little too late. Many EVDO users get over 1Mbps sustained and peaks up to 2Mbps. When EVDO Rev A comes about same time as HSDPA, downloads will likely sustain 2Mbps or more. EVDO Rev B claims 70Mbps+, possibly coming in a few years.

    EVDO Rev 0 regularly sustains 1Mbps+
    http://www.dslreports.com/archive/spcsdns.net
     
    #26 xenophon, Jan 19, 2006
  27. jones

    jones Silver Senior Member
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    cdma 1x will not be deployed in more that 210 Countries,
    it will be a Minority Standard
    WCDMA Global Standard will be deployed in these Countries.

    [​IMG]
     
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    #27 jones, Jan 20, 2006
  28. hillbilly44

    hillbilly44 Senior Member
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    The main reason UMTS uses more spectrum than EV-DO is because it's for VOICE & DATA where EV-DO is a DATA ONLY enhancement. That's the reason behind UMTS using more spectrum. Next UMTS will be faster because of HSDPA which helps with the down-load speed of DATA the HSUPA version which is another software upgrade comes in 2007 which enables the up-load speed to match the download speed. So in a nutshell you have UMTS, then UMTS-HSPDA (which is what Cingular is rolling out this year), then the next upgrade is UMTS-HSDPA-HSUPA.:cool:
     
    #28 hillbilly44, Jan 22, 2006
  29. xenophon

    xenophon Member
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    How many markets get UMTS only vs. HSDPA this year? Some articles suggest not all get HSDPA and the UMTS only will also continue to be rolled out through the year.




    http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cach...mts+hsdpa+some+markets&hl=en&client=firefox-a

    http://www.engadget.com/2005/10/14/cingular-sticks-umts-in-18-markets-this-year/
     
    #29 xenophon, Jan 22, 2006
  30. jones

    jones Silver Senior Member
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    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
    #30 jones, Jan 23, 2006
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