Goodbye Nextel...

I am not sure how to take this as well as how people will see them as a company.
It's like Cingular changing their name to AT&T, it may have some negatives that over ride the positives, with some people even though nothing has really changed at this point.

 

But it's a Sprint tower?!

 

If you have been contaminated, the best thing to do is clean up and get rid of the dirt. That's what's Sprint is doing with Nextel.

 

Looks like Sprint is set to go all-CDMA. But do they have the technology to have Nextel walkie-talkie over CDMA? Because iDEN was designed with that in mind.

 

They will be releasing QChat as soon as they are done upgrading their network to Rev. A from what I understand.
Also iDEN has at least 7 years before it's shut down, so it's not going anywhere for a while.

Just removing 1 of their names to probably make it cheaper for marketing reasons as well as limit confusion, like they did with the Cingular-AT&T Wireless Merger.

 

Nextel was fine, before the government said, hey, we want your walkie talkie frequency technology, so buzz off....... But all i can say is,

come and get your love with whoever you want in your circle......Alltel.

 

Not true, they had to change spectrum due to interference with public safety radios & not that the Goverment wanted the iDEN network from them.
They were given spectrum in the middle of public safety spectrum & it was causing too many problems with the 2 way radio's.

 

One huge problem is that CDMA and iDEN are totally incompatible.
iDEN is really just a souped-up GSM, with some proprietary
changes courtesy of Motorola. The hybrid phone is supposed to be
a phone which supports parts of the iDEN protocols while also
supporting the entire CDMA protocol suite, something that hasn't
been done before. And we've all heard and read about the
resulting fiasco.

The big advantage that (so far) no one has been able to surmount
is that iDEN can connect its walkie-talkie feature within a couple of
seconds tops. The whole problem with the others is akin to trying
to set up an IM session while waiting for your 56k modem to
connect up, or in this case, a data connection: until those
connections can be brought up that fast, iDEN can't be touched
for its intended purpose. (Which was always a souped-up trunked
radio system, and still is.)

Mike

 

Well for me at least the CDMA side is covering the poor iDEN side here in NJ, with the exception of the dead spots due to lack of 850 roaming, I can at least talk to people now.
So I think it's the right direction for them to have done.

 

Kodiak's PTT approach is the only one that doesn't work like that. It is similar to setting up a regular phone call. That's why there is an initial delay for the first PTT push, but then it is basically realtime afterwards. The initial delay is not noticeable anyways, so the end user experience is very much like Nextel's. If Sprint and Verizon had chosen Kodiak's technology, I think things would've been a lot different now. But so far only AT&T and Alltel use it.

 

iDEN is not some "souped up" GSM. The only connection to GSM is that current Nextel handsets use SIMs. Other than that it's not GSM in any way other than the underlying technology that iDEN uses is TDMA just as GSM and IS-136 (what AT&T/Cingular used prior to overlaying GSM on their systems.)

 

Thanks for correcting that.

Both iDen and GSM have some TDMA fundamentals but neither should be compared to each other or TDMA.

CDMA also has something in Common with TDMA and GSM and its hidden in the recent REV 0 and REV A releases. Can anyone figure out what it is?

 

I thought that iDEN uses the same core (MAP) as GSM.

 

Close, but it's a combination of both. You need to distinguish between the air interface and the call processing/switching side of things. Both GSM and iDEN use TDMA (In one variant or another) to make up the air interface. The iDEN call processing half, while not GSM verbatim is loosely based on it and is the same in a few aspects.

While not common specifically to GSM, EVDO is using CDMA with a dab of TDMA, the timeslot (To aid with confusion, I'm only talking about the TDMA principles, nothing to do with any specific technologies, I'm only going very general here).

To balance the bandwidth demands on EVDO each user will get a full speed burst of data only a few bits long before moving to the next EVDO user on the channel so if there is only one user they get constant EVDO speeds. If there are multiple users you'll be getting blips of EVDO speeds, farther apart with more users (up to a certain limit). Instead of getting the Walsh code all the time like you do on 1X, you now only get the Walsh code for a specified timeslot.

 

Exactly the answer I was looking for. I had mentioned this before and people wanted bite my head off, probably cause Im pro GSM and they figured I was making it up. Alot of people assume that EVDO is solely spread spectrum technology.

 

Ha I've mentioned it randomly here a few times but no one seemed to comment.

 

well i thought i would just cap off a couple of things here.....

franlky i think the move from iDEN to CDMA is smart because the future of cellular surprisingly and ironically enough lies in data not voice...........weird huh? :loony:

CDMA has the biggest potential for data and they will start WiMax once all this hassle is worked out

well i think if this is the campaign that Sprint has chosen then these are the steps that need to be taken and they need to be taken right away in this order:

1. finish the rebanding of Nextel and at the same time finishe Rev A upgrades
everything else on hold

2. make QChat fully operational..............
3. set a deadline for legacy Nextel customers who are out of contract to migrate over to Sprint
4. all PowerSource and Nextel customers inside contract will be given somewhere between 6-9 months to migrate over after their contract has expired...........

now seriously with this ad campaign how do you expect Sprint to keep Nextel going for another 7 years

everyone preceding this post was correct in saying that the FCC screwed up when they gave Nextel the 800 MhZ and it started messing with emergency 2way systems..........

well that is exactly what Sprint is working on by upgrading their network to EV-DO Rev A................they wont be stuck with the1 "56K" as you so accurately put it......they will have those DSL speeds and it will be like a VoIP call from your house......thats the goal.......

yeah..........but you also have to remember that even Nextel had a barely noticeable delay right at the beginning.........you only ever experience that delay again.......when they connection becomes inactive after a few seconds.....now doesnt VZW use Kodiak?

 

Nop...only Alltel and AT&T use Kodiak.

 

well then what system is VZW using?

 

Dobson is also using Kodiak in limited markets.

 

VZ uses VoIP, like Sprint's ReadyLink.

 

it's just like a regular cell call???

 

Ok, I did some research on the ReadyLink system that Sprint uses and it says they use the Session Initiation Protocol (SIP) is this pretty much the same thing as VoIP, or does VoIP use SIP for voice? ahh so confused!!

 

yeah maybe someone who unofficially "specializes" in the PTT systems could outline them with the companies for us???? :O

 

SIP is to VOIP is what GSM is to cellular communications. Just one of many means to an end.

 

SIP is the standard protocol used for VoIP calls. Believe it or not Skype is probably the only popular VoIP provider that does not use SIP.

So ReadyLink and Verizon's PTT are not like a regular call, they are VoIP calls so they use data channels (packet switched) instead of voice channels. So basically, they use the EVDO/1xRTT network to send the PTT voice because it is just like internet data. In other words, Verizon and Sprint's PTT solutions are just another form of streaming audio, just like an internet radio station. The problem with this system has always been the buffering times that causes the delays in the voice being reproduced after it has been sent. The data channels are only used when there is voice being sent or received.

Kodiak's system, on the other hand, fixes the buffering delays by sending audio via the regular voice channels (circuit switched) like a regular phone call. The problem with this system is the inherent initial call setup time (there's still dialing time, connect time, ringing time, answer time, under the hood), which is all done automatically, but it is the reason why on the first PTT push, there's always a few seconds delay, but on subsequent pushes, there is virtually no delay (milliseconds) just like a regular phone call. Unlike Verizon/Sprint's system, Kodiak's system requires that the voice channels stay open constantly whether you press the PTT button or not. In other words, the phone is active sending and receiving voice across the network whether you push the PTT button or not. The only thing is when you press the PTT button, your microphone is opened and the speakerphone in the other end is opened and the communication is instantaneous because the voice channels were already opened, just as in a regular phone call. If none of the parties pushes PTT in 30 seconds, the call is automatically disconnected (your GSM transmitter stops) and then on the next PTT push, you will get the call setup delay once again. However, this delay is not noticeable to the end user since the phone buffers your voice and it is sent once the call is setup and the voice channels are open. So, unless you are standing next to the person receiving the message, you will never know there was an initial delay.

 

oh, lol, thanks TelcomJunkie & Bobolito for the clarifications! i'm no longer confused

 

so is the delay for the Kodiak system similar to the delay that occurs during the initiation of a Direct Connect call............cuz Nextel DC had a short delay in the brginning too

 

There really isn't a delay with Nextel, once you hit the button it's pretty much milliseconds to connect to the other party.
With the Kodiak system, when I tried it the connect time can be a second, then it's like iDEN and just as fast.