Flagged account due to "excessive"off network usage

Let's keep all the responses here rather than in e-mail... that way people with this problem in future can do research.

Your Cingular contract undoubtedly has a clause about excessive use... go read the fine print and see. If it doesn't (and be liberal about how you interpret it, because you know they will be) then they haven't a leg to stand on. If it does, find out who owns the towers you're using most often and go with them.

 

This came up in another posting (http://forums.wirelessadvisor.com/w...me-michigan-customers-2.html?highlight=dobson) and again between Dobson and Cingular.

Cingular has a clause (and some others too, but I've read not verizon), that if more than 50% of your calls, over 3 consecutive months, is roaming off the Cingular native network, they have the right to cancel your service. This is regardless if you have free national wide roaming.

Unfortunately they don't display on your phone when that happens; fortunately they are not going to charge you the Early Termination Fee however.

I don't have any personal experience with this. I don't know if they are counting only Anytime minutes or include N&W too.

The thing to do is recognize these areas where Dobson is and limit your calls, and obey the 3 month rule. It may also help to increase your minute plan...if you have a cheap minute plan and rely on N&W while roaming, that may be the problem. It could be harder to reach your 50% limit if you had a more minute plan.

It is interesting to me that it is a problem with Dobson once again and the only other case I know of is with Dobson.

Some people can mod their phones to display the roaming partner service.

 

Well, it's 50% of the calls made, not 50% of the minute pool available.

If you're in Dobson territory a lot, it may make sense to jump ship and buy a Dobson (US Cellular) phone. Verizon doesn't have the 50% rule, but that's because the newer America's Choice plans simply won't roam on carriers that Verizon deem too expensive... it will behave like a GSM phone, where it won't roam on someone not on the PRL except if you dial one of the emergency numbers (911, 112, 999).

 

A very good point, which negates my 'more minute' idea.

I suppose if you jump to a higher $$ plan, they may be more forgiving, since they generate more revenue from you. They always reserve the right, it's not an on/off switch. It probably best for the OP to bargain with Cingular on the best solution.

 

With Cingular, an on line version is coming sometime soon. In the meantime, go to a Cingular store and they have a deatiled computer map that can show you where you would be roaming off network. Just explain the situation to them and sit down and go over your routes with them. Should help.

 

Zaphod, I'm not sure I'm following you. Your statement about Verizon not having a 50% rule is correct, one can roam as much as you like, but I'm not sure I'm following your reasoning. You are saying that Verizon doesn't have a 50% rule because they only allow you to roam on carriers they want you to roam on, meaning carriers they deem are necessarily to give customers good coverage and carriers with whom roaming rates are cheap. That is correct, but how does Cingular do it? Cingular does not allow you to roam on any carrier, just the ones they deem necessary and the ones they have preferable roaming agreements with. What's the difference??? Verizon lets you know when you are off network, Cingular always displays CINGULAR so even having that 50% rule is ridiculous. Customers have no way to know they are roaming, and are never given a map with Cingular native coverage when signing up for service.
I used to have a Cingular phone until last week and it was forced to T-Mobile most of the time so my calls wouldn't garble. Well about a month or two ago I could not register on T-Mobile anymore where I could before...they did the same to me.

 

If you are currently roaming too much with Cingular and they've cut off Dobson roaming for you, there's no reason for you to stay with them, especially if you can leave without paying an ETF. Where are you based out of/where is your billing address at? If it's in an ALLTEL area I'd consider them(not sure if they have a roaming rule), but their pricing is very good and their national plans have a big coverage area. U.S. Cellular may be a good choice, not sure if they have a roaming rule or not. Verizon may be a good choice as well as I know they do not have a roaming rule. Sprint may also be a good choice, just know that Mobile to Mobile minutes and Vision will not work while off network.
Hope this helps.

P.S. And yes, every carrier will give you a trial. If you are unsure if the reps are honest with you, come back and post all your questions. We WILL help you!

 

The reasoning is this: with Cingular, they allow you to roam wherever (as long as any agreement is in place), and institute the 50% rule, thus insulating themselves from roaming bills that hurt the bottom line... but they can still claim this huge network for national service because they DO have lots of roaming agreements.

With Verizon, they used to follow this (and they did have a 50% rule, it's in my AC I contract, which I'm still on), but then they found that they could get rid of the more expensive roaming areas without their coverage map looking like Swiss cheese (do you hear me, T-Mobile? Nextel?), thus they could dump the 50% rule, since the AC II phones won't register on the "expensive" roaming networks.

Also, Verizon have been buying up little carriers lately (Midwest Wireless, for example) so they can immediately change those from FRM (free roam, meaning the cheap advantageous agreements) to VZW.

 

This makes sense, if I understand that you intentionally forced your phone to use T-Mobile, instead of the available Cingular towers. That is in violation of the Cingular contract.

The OP's situation is a little different in that he is roaming in an area without Cingular service.

So far the only 2 postings here are problems with Dobson. Perhaps they charge too much compared to the other roaming partners. But I do agree now that Cingular should give some indication when your roaming, but it would be better to understand how pervasive the problem is with respect to different roaming partners.

 

Interesting ZaphodB. If your still on the old AC contract, do you still have the 50% rule? Or has the contract been changed or is it simply a mute point as you stated (about verizon dumping the expensive roaming partners)?

 

ERRR! It's neither of those. It is "50% of your usage over three consecutive billing cycles" which is most accurately calculated by measuring the number of minutes used over a 3-month period. But then again, even that's not exactly what they are saying.

I think Cingular can afford to give people a warning in writing or via SMS rather than abruptly cutting off service. If the "too much roaming" trend continues for another 3 months, then the customer can be cut off. They should also let phones indicate when you are roaming and when not.

 

ERRR!

Alltel bought Midwest Wireless. I believe VZW bought Mid Missouri Cellular.
Since alltel and vzw are so friendly with each other in their roaming agreement, whatever alltel buys benefits vzw and whatever vzw buys benefits alltel.

 

ERRR!

Alltel bought Western Wireless!

 

And Verizon did buy Midwest Wireless, I promise you.

 

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. and MANKATO, Minn.(11/18/05) – Alltel, owner and operator of the nation’s largest wireless network, and Midwest Wireless Holdings today announced they have entered into a definitive agreement for Alltel to purchase Midwest Wireless. Alltel expects to gain approximately 400,000 wireless customers in southern Minnesota, northern and eastern Iowa, and western Wisconsin. These markets are contiguous to existing Alltel operations and cover a population of 1.9 million with 850 MHz.

Under the agreement, Alltel will pay $1.075 billion in cash to purchase Midwest Wireless’ licenses, customers and network assets, including 1.9 PCS spectrum. Closing of the transaction is contingent upon regulatory approval and is expected to occur in the first half of 2006.

“The Midwest Wireless business strengthens our position in the wireless industry by adding CDMA properties that are contiguous to our existing markets in the Midwestern U.S.,” said Scott Ford, Alltel president and CEO. “Midwest Wireless’ network is well suited to deliver advanced data applications to customers through a reliable and robust 1x network.

“The company has a very strong post-pay customer base and its management team has built a business that has performed exceptionally well,” Ford said. “We look forward to welcoming the Midwest Wireless team and customers to Alltel.”

 

I didn't know about that. I thought it was only Western Wireless.

http://www.alltel.com/corporate/media/news/05/nov/n411nov1805.html

 

How is this a violation of my Cingular contract? I used a phone with network selection open and Cingular allowed my SIM to register on T-Mobile's network. While on Cingular in the areas I frequent my calls would garble and drop, so I took advantage of Cingular allowing T-Mobile roaming and used it.

 

I agree with Andy. A violation is not necessarily the mere act of forcing your phone to a roaming carrier unless the usage on the roaming network reaches above 50% over three consecutive months.

 

I don't because my statement was based on the assumption, reading Andy's postings of consistent Cingular voice quality issues in Salt Lake, that he was using Tmobile more than 50% (& 3 consecutive months) by forcing his phone to Tmobile in an area that has Cingular native coverage.

If I were to visit Salt Lake for an extended period of time, Cingular's 'prefered roaming list database' would have my phone use Cingular's network by default. If instead I forced it to use tmobile, and went over the 50% rule for 3 cons. months, it is pretty clear that I'm in violation of the the Terms of Agreement. It is obviously going to cost Cingular more money if your off network and there is a Cingular network available to use, regardless of the users opinion of it's voice quality.

Customer must (1) use a Cingular GSM dual band handset programmed with Cingular Wireless' preferred roaming database;

If Andy is not over the 50% limit, then I would partially agree. However, I still think Cingular would not be happy, and they may cut off his Tmobile access, and force him to use Cingular because it is available. It is apparently not a signal strength issue in Salt Lake, from what I've read. I think that is a reasonable position for Cingular to take.

 

I didn't use over 50% of my usage roaming on T-Mobile because I heard about this 50% clause. I always came close, but didn't cross it for 3 consecutive months. I do agree that I probably cost them a lot of money, but I didn't really cross the 50% rule, just came awefully close every time. If you had voice quality issues with garbling, etc. and had the option to chose another network to roam on, wouldn't you chose that for your important calls that you don't want dropped/garbled?
In most places it is not a signal issue, it's a voice quality issue, and no, I don't think it's a reasonable position to take of Cingular to prohibit me from roaming on T-Mobile when their voice quality is crap in this area. Either they fix it or they allow me to roam(I doubt it will get fixed...how long has AT&T and now Cingular had this shotty GSM here???).

 

I guess you didn't go over the 50% rule since Cingular didn't cancel your service, only your access to Tmobile. Since you were unhappy with the Cingular native network, you choose the right, 3rd option, and cancelled your Cingular on your own. Probably made Cingular happy too. I don't understand why they don't fix it if is that bad. Seems like it has been long enough for all the customers to leave.

All the newer Moto and Nokia phones I've purchased from Cingular have the user network selection menus eliminated. Clearly Cingular wants to control your network selection from their database and not let the user. I think that is their prerogative. I'm sure you and others that hack their phones disagree, but it is a business afterall.

So how do you predict your 50% monthly usage anyway? If you call 10 minutes on Tmobile, do you then switch to Cingular's network and shoot the breeze, with 'garbled' voice for 21 minutes? That is a lot of bookeeping!

Again, this is different than the OP problem.

 

The network seems to have it's good and bad days. Some days I can make an hour long call on the Cingular network and it will be acceptable, especially depending on the area. But the southern and western part of the valley here especially has audio problems with Cingular. They have enough cellsites I guess maybe it's handoff problems or something.
There are some people happy with Cingular in Salt Lake, but the majority of people I know with Cingular are not. When I first started my service with Cingular and used a phone that had the menu selection locked my phone would switch between the Cingular and T-Mobile network constantly; that's one reason I used a phone with active network selection. That problem has, however, now stopped, at least for me, since I wasn't able to roam on T-MObile anymore.

 

To be clear....Alltel bought both. "Technically" they merged with WW and bought MW......

Oh and Racindave99, I hate cingular, they are wrong in what they did. It's funny because the only problem I have is that their customers have no way to know they are roaming, and also they give no real warning.

Also someone mentioned going to Sprint....although I reccommend Alltel or VZW, Sprint has just signed a voice and data roaming agreement with Alltel, so the their data services will now work when outside their network I believe.

 

NOt yet I don't think. I believe it's supposed to start this summer, but if I'm not mistaken, ALLTEL already allows DATA roaming on many carriers when outside their native coverage area.

 

Oh ok...yeah I know that VZW users can use Alltel's data services, and vice versa already. Not sure about other carriers.

I still haven't been able to get an answer to this....If I have Alltel 1xrtt and Sprint evdo in the same area, am I going on the 1x no matter what after this thing goes into place? Or will it let me roam on the Sprint EVDO?

 

If you are roaming "Cingular Extend" should display on your phone. That's what I used to get when my phone roamed on the old Suncom network.

-Jay