Fcc Mandate Prohibits Activation Of Non Gps Phones - Even Existing Accounts

How do you know this is true? CS reps always make up stories to get you off the phone. Check in the FCC website. I really don't believe this is true.

 

The FCC did not mandate that you cannot have a non-GPS handset at this time, however the FCC has mandated that 95% of handsets on a carrier's network be enhanced 911 compliant by 12/31/2005 so it makes sense that carriers would stop activating (or performing ESN changes on) non-GPS/E911 complaint handsets now, in preperation for the 12/31/2005 deadline.

 

How does one know/tell if their phone is E911-compliant?

 

Simple, buy a Cingular or Tmobile phone and account.

 

Please don't respond like this without checking the facts first. In essence, what the CSR said was correct. It is another BS federal mandate and Alltel's been refusing to activate non E911 phones for several months. I think eBay should put some type of disclaimer on its cell phone pages because people have been unloading useless phones left and right, then playing dumb and blaming the carriers when they can't be activated. Anyone who has even the slightest knowledge about the industry knows about this and would know that the phones they're selling are trash...

 

Bobolito is right so that pushes company policy to only activate E911 phones only for now on.

find your phone here
If you can't find your phone here then it is too old and not E911 ready.

If has GPS / Location______Yes Then you are E 911 ready

 

What does the E911 do for us on Cingular? They can't pinpoint me on my v400 if I call 9-1-1.....on or after 12/05....without GPS?

 

In Connecticut you can pinpointed today with any Cingular phone via the police department and a call to 911. Without GPS on the phone. Cingular and Tmobile have licensed the technology from www.trueposition.com and the police departments are using the software for 911 locations.

 

Thanks viewfly....is there a map or schedule of where it is currently deployed/when it will be deployed?

 

I've found it very difficult to get such a global snapshot of this. CT is complete, because I read this in the local newspapers. Best to try you state gov web pages for information on this. Besides the carrier being complete, each local police 911 unit has to be trained and software installed (regardless of CDMA or GSM, TDMA or analog). Besides the handset problems of CDMA carrier choice, the local training is a major bottleneck I think.

GSM carriers choice of a network, non handheld, non handheld GPS solution eliminates their compliance concerns with older phones. But the towers need the right equipment and local 911 police the right training, etc.

 

The biggest bottle neck is not training, but it is for the local 911 centers to purchase the equipment required to do the tracking. My local county has it, the next county over has a spot available for the equipment, but no equipment.

I believe many VA counties should have it by now, they were one of the first counties to implement a cost recovery measure for the state to fund purchase of e911 equipment for 911 centers.

One of the counties in VA I used to sell wireless to sent me a request for e911 connectivity back in 1998...I was like...um....I'm the sales guy! You'll need to send that over to our network folks.

 

Ok, I did find something. http://www.fcc.gov/911/enhanced/reports/phase2-waiver.html

has quarterly reports by each carrier. Under Cingular, it give a Jan 2005 report (187 pages) and at the end a spreadsheet of compliance, state by state, and within states, each local area and deployment dates. Enjoy the reading, not easy. For Cing, only 15 pages of legaltecho stuff, the rest is compliance spreadsheets.

 

whoops. The above report is from April 29, 2005, not January. It's an update from the Jan report.

 

Nice find viewfly! I see a bunch of police departments in my county (Will County, IL) have deployed this in 02 for TDMA and 04 for GSM. I've had to call 911 a few times....I don't think anyone knew where I was at specifically. In fact....one dispatcher asked for my cell number. I thought at least that would be up on a screen.

 

Thanks. In case your wondering... PSAP is a Public Safety Answering Point:

ie The dispatch office that receives 911 calls from the public. A PSAP may be local fire or police department, an ambulance service or a regional office covering all services.

P.S. Don't overlook that the Cingular spreadsheet is in part A and part B. One for Cingular and the other for former ATT. Conn. has listings in both parts.

 

One VZW store today would NOT exchange one of my phones based on this issue, I had extended warranty. They did offer a GPS capable phone which was not as well equipped as my phone. I had to find another store who DID fully understand the RULE and exchanged with a refurbished unit of the same non GPS phone.

Of course they did want me to sign up for a new contract and get any phone, but I do not want to change phones until I absolutely must. I said NO to the contract.

ALSO: TO add to the confusion, I was told by CS at 800 922 0204 that they WOULD activate a phone ( non GPS) for $15.00.

 

The word is out, buy old cell phones by the pound...

 

I would just get on your online accout and activate it that way.

 

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See below. FCC requirement, not made up.

The FCC link in my above post [FCC compliance] gives the specific model handset numbers that are aGPS capable for Verizon, Sprint, Nextel (see each carriers text and attachments). All Cingular phones are compliant already by nature of their E911 network solution. All Verizon phones sold after Dec 31, 2003 are GPS capable (sold by Verizon).

The FCC requires that after Dec 2003, 100% of Verizon phones sold and activated by Verizon be aGPS capable. [Verizon letter from John Scott, Verizon VP, to FCC saying that they are compliant with the FCC law ,dated April 2005]

This includes store and web based channels. So I doubt you can activate an older , non aGPS phone via the web online system.

 

Don't blame me for being so skeptical. I've just heard too many stories, that's all.

 

I, personally, collect old phones so old phones that can't be activated is a good thing... it means I can complete my collection cheaply. Right now I've got a Motorola 3-Watt Bag Phone, Motorola Ultra Classic II, Motorola Timeport P8197, Motorola StarTAC 3000, Motorola v60t, Motorola v60t Color (dummy,) Motorola v66, Motorola C343g, Motorola v2387, Motorola Talkabout, Motorola i305, Philips ISIS, Ericsson 618, Nokia 252 (dummy,) Audiovox 9155 GPX (dummy,) Nokkia 6300 (dummy,) Nokia 2260 (dummy) and a Nokia 3300 (dummy) on my desk. It's kind of an old phone museum.

I'd like to obtain a Motorola MicroTAC, Motorola v120 and Timeport 270c and I think I'd have all the old phones I want. I don't know if I want to pay for phones by the pound, though. S&H has to suck if you buy them that way. :lmao:

 

Some of the old phones are not that cheap.

 

I checked a few Nokia GSM models, and "GPS/Location" was not listed under any of them. Cingular's was explained above (E911 network), and I presume T-Mobile is the same?

 

Yes, both Cingular and Tmobile use the same E911 Network Solution. They don't have nor need GPS on the handset and therefore the "GPS/Location" listed will not be found.

Even the CDMA GPS phones are not standalone GPS (like you buy in the store). They require network assistence from my readings of this. Also GPS signals do not penentrate into most building structures.

So in answer to your question, with Tmobile, your all set with your phone.

 

I am glad you posted about part A & part B sheets, I only saw part A & didn't see my town or area listed at all, but it is listed as phase 1 as done on GSM & TDMA and Phase 2 is not but part of a mutual agreement I guess with the town or county, since alot of the towns in my county say that in the comment fields.
Thanks for the link as well.

 

It doesnt have to be this way, their are solutions available that will allow Phase 2 E911 compliance with the oldest of handsets.

For instance, Bluegrass has deployed an Andrew Corporation solution using WLS (wireless location signatures) which will pinpoint any handset in our system with GPS accuracy. Good for TDMA, CDMA, and GSM.

It is unfortunate that some of the carriers are going to alienate their customer base this way, but the forced sales will help pay for the equipment upgrades required to be E911 compliant.

 

The Andrew Corp Network solution sounds the same as TruePosition's. Trueposition won exclusive contracts with Cingular and Tmobile. I was trying to figure out where the differences lies in the two companies. I couldn't find any press release for Andrew Corp where they won contracts.

Then I found this:

TruePosition Successfully Concludes Patent Infringement Litigation Against Andrew Corporation
King of Prussia, PA, February 2, 2004 - TruePosition, Inc. announced today that it has successfully concluded its patent infringement litigation against Andrew Corporation. TruePosition brought suit originally against Allen Telecom, Inc. alleging that Allen's Grayson Wireless Division's "Geometrix" cellular telephone location system infringed several of TruePosition's patents. Allen merged with Andrew Corporation while the suit was pending.

In a settlement agreement signed yesterday, Andrew Corporation agreed to pay TruePosition $35 million and issued TruePosition warrants entitling TruePosition to purchase one million shares of Andrew's common stock at a price of $17.70 per share for a period of four years.

"We are very pleased to announce this settlement," said Kent Sander, TruePosition's Chief Operating Officer and President. "TruePosition continues to be the leader in the E-911 location technology sector. With our Finder˜ System we provide wireless location solutions to millions of wireless users across the country. Our motto is, Anyphone, AnywhereSM. Our network-based technology works with existing handsets in any environment."

The Andrew litigation marks the second time that TruePosition has successfully asserted its patents against a third party. In November 2001, TruePosition successfully concluded an infringement suit against SigmaOne Communications Corporation. "We have invested significantly in our intellectual property," said Mr. Sander, "and we will continue to defend and protect these assets."

It probably means Andrews webpage is old, or they pay license fees to Trueposition now

And yes you are right, the Network Solution doesn't force customers to buy new phones. But it probably is a mute point for most, with the new every 2 policy of the carriers

You're welcome. I've been searching for a table like this for a while. Do you know anything about dispatchers knownledge of E911 in your area? Sounds like you in the fire business

viewfly

 

I am going to do an inspection of the police dept. this week & will find out what I can, is there anything specific you want to know?
Also I can talk to our communications officer & see what he can tell me about it.

 

I'm curious what happens after they get equipment/software installed. How fast after that are they on line? Most likely the same questions you have. Also, what is the nature or reason behind the 'mutally agreed dealy in deployment'?

Thanks