e-911, the law and old phones

I assume you were activating over the phone? I've had good success activating phone through their website. A year ago I even activated an old bag phone for giggles.

 

The only logical explanation I could think of (as a former E-911 Program Manager) is that Verizon does their compliance primarily through phones, not the network. Meaning they use gps equipped handsets. The FCC set a deadline of December 31, 2005, for all carriers to have 95 percent of their subscriber base equipped with location-capable handsets.

Sprint and Verizon both use GPS capable handsets for their Phase 2 compliance, while Cingular uses Time Difference of Arrival and Angle of Arrival (network based solutions).

 

The FCC requires Verizon to have most of their phones e911 capable. In order to meet this requirement, Verizon will not activate non-e911 phones.


It's their network, they can limit the phones however they want.

 

We have the same problem. We have to have 95% of customer base on 911 compliant phones. Therefore, activating a nono e911 phone is not achieving that requirement from the FCC. Verizon is just like us on that. Don't hate them for it. Put yourself in their shoes... say you owned a business and selling tobacco was illegal to minors. A minor who happens to have a good amount of money has been your customer for several years and is "not adverse to leaving you". You cannot sell them the smokes because of legal requirements. See what I mean. Some things may not sound good to you as a customer but to protect themselves, they have to do what they have to do.

 

That is true. I have seen that in the news for the last few years and I know it is hard to get some people to give up there phones that are still working, but it is something that needs to be done. I remember in the past when I called 911 and had to ask for the 911 service in the city I was in and not the city that my phone was set for. It is a good thing if you every need to use the e911 service to have a phone that will work.

 

It wouldn't alienate customers if VZW and others used a network approach like most of the GSM carriers. :browani:

And this crap about...it doesn't work on CDMA channeling is just that...CRAP: Andrew Corporation's Geometrix system is deployed in some CDMA networks and is working beautifully.

 

You're right, it isn't in your best interest to be able to be located by a PSAP if you dial 911 and can't verbalize your location.

Damn government, why would they want to find you if you called for help.

 

A PSAP is a Public Safety Answering Point....think of it as a 911 dispatch center. When you dial 911 on a mobile phone in a Phase-2 Enhanced-911 PSAP (usually a county or similar boundary) they will see your location as a GPS coordinate, sometime linked to a street address, but on a map nonetheless. It is FCC mandated that you can be located within 100 meters for 67% of calls, and 300 meters for 95 % of calls. It is not about selling phones, and the carriers fought it all the way...and still look for loopholes around fines for not being compliant. It costs them money, so it is not a highly welcomed or asked for thing as the carriers are concerned.

As for your personal desire, it doesn't matter. The government long ago adopted laws that are to protect you, even for those who don't wish to protect and help themselves. The next time you have a medical emergency, don't call 911 so you don't have to send away the mean old EMT that wants to save the life of someone he has never met.

 

Well said wirles. I have not used 911 in a long time, but it is good to know it's there if needed.

 

The phone company did not allow it, just doing what is instructed of them. They won't shut off a phone thats non-compliant. The only rule they follow to achieve the 95% goal is once a non-compliant phone goes inactive, it can't be reactivated.

 

I can't speak for Verizon but I know Alltel chose the method we did for 3 main reasons:

1. Cost. It is much easier to phase something in a phone a customer will most likely upgrade on their own in 2 years anyway. The other methods would involve passing fees on to the customer base. This way, we are not forcing the customer to change phones, but letting them do what they are going to do anyway. The only drawback and its small, is older models cannot be turned back on. This rarely comes up except in your case where you killed one and want to use the old one as backup. Look at it this way though, You can't break your VHS player and use your BetaMax as backup with the VHS tapes. Technology changes. Laws change etc.

2. Accuracy. We wanted to have a standard that would pinpoint a location more accuratly incase the government changed their minds about how exact the location must me.

3. It is much easier should a requirement change to phase in the new requirement with handsets (phones) than change of network.

 

Network based LBS can be more accurate the handset based, and I understand the cost issues. I know for VZW and Sprint it was based on subsidies from handset manufacturers along with LBS providers.

 

Where do you live that didn't have 911 until recently? Not in the US, considering the Federal mandates. Obviously if you are in your town house you would use a land line most likely.

I am not going to argue the finer points of this or other laws. Like seat belt laws. Once again, you may not like it or think it's only going to affect you, but you getting into an accident without a seat belt or helmet affects others (insurance costs, etc...), therefore your ability to control that action 100% is regulated for the good of the population as a whole.

 

And the technology that would get them to within 50-300 meters is better than the miles away they would be under Phase 1 E-911 services for mobile networks. You need to keep the relative improvement in persepective.

I am not going to get into an anti-goverment argument, as it is not needed and will only cause strife. You have your opinion (as you are entitled), and I have mine. Neither of them are wrong by definition. Age old fight on where to place the line of Liberty versus Security. I will end with a quote that supports my position:

“It would be nice to have a good world, a world of peace, brotherhood, justice and integrity, but it would also be good if we could live in it. My first concern – as is that of every insert your favorite race, nationality, etc... – is to ensure the existence and security of the insert your favorite race, nationality, etc... people.”

 

So now what do we do with all the V60i's and older phones?