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Day at Belmont Race Track

Discussion in 'Northeastern US Wireless Forum' started by Yankees368, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    What a let down. Smarty Jones couldnt hold the win. Oh well, the rest of the day was great...except when it came down to cell phones.

    SPRINT (a460 and 8100):
    WHAT A DISASTER. There is no excuse for the lack of coverage/capacity on a day like this.

    Outside by the paddock: D- 1 bar of service at the most. Calls would either take about 30 seconds to connect, or would drop into roaming, or drop completely.

    Lower Level: F NO SERVICE, 0 bars at most at times. Not able to complete one call in the lower level.

    Middle Level: D+ 1-2 bars. Outgoing calls went through after about 10 seconds. NO incomming calls.

    Upper Level: B- 3 bars. All incomming/outgoing successful. Most of my calls were made here.

    VERIZON (vx4400):

    Outside by the paddock: F MAJOR capacity issues. Phone would standby in full digital 1x service, but when an outgoing call was attempted, phone would make the call in analog. Even the analog was bad, the call was overcome with static.

    Lower Level: F NO SERVICE, 0 bars at most at times. Not able to complete one call in the lower level.

    Middle Level: C Worked, but with a lot of cutting in and out

    Upper Level: B- All incomming/outgoing successful. Most of my calls were made here.

    In conclusion...on a day like this, more coverage is needed that the regular towers can provide. COWs were absolutly needed. This problem occurs every year, as over 100,000 come to the race.
     
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  2. rich6880

    rich6880 Senior Member
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    You are right something should be done. You must remember though, you are ing Queens, NY. The Borough has an extremely high per capita income (therefore many cell phones). There is an event in progress drawing many people (most with cell phones). It is a weekend, so everyone is using their unlimited n & W). Not trying to defend the service suppliers, but all of this puts a tremendous strain on the system. Profit being the motive, the Companies do not want to spend a lot to keep a everyone happy for a few hours.
     
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  3. GoodmanR

    GoodmanR Silver Senior Member
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    Even in Manhattan the same problem would have happened, it really has much less to do with how many sites are in the area than how many mobile sites the carriers bring in. There is no way the network can support capacity from events like this without carriers bringing in mobile cell sites. At some more frequently used sporting venues, perm. sites are put up so they dont have to do this (like baseball, football and basketball games), but for things like racing and for example nascar, the sites would only be used once a year so it makes more sense to use mobile sites.

    I am not sure why the carriers didn't have enough supplimental coverage from their mobile sites. Verizon taking 30 seconds to connect though, that sounds like DC!! did you get a chance to see how any GSM carriers performed?
     
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  4. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    My family has Sprint, and my friend has Verizon. I have no idea how the GSM carriers did.

    If i had to guess, I would say that T-Mobile was the worst of any, do to the lack of roaming and 1900 mHz. ATT i cannot say, because i do not know if they have 850 up everywhere yet.
     
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  5. GoodmanR

    GoodmanR Silver Senior Member
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    Why would TMO being only 1900 do anything? Are you just saying that because they would not be able to roam onto 850 carriers??
     
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  6. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    Im saying that Tmobile was probably the worse because

    1) They are a 1900 mHz carrier, which is not good in a situation like this. You are inside a huge metal building which KILLS signals.

    2) If Tmobile users could roam onto 850, my opinion would change greatly.
     
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  7. Rich

    Rich Bronze Senior Member
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    I can't understand why you experienced such poor service at the racetrack, Sprint has a tower just located outside the entrance on Hempstead Ave. Now with any CDMA provider like Sprint, the more people on a single tower the more your coverage is going to shrink, that might explain why you were getting intermittent service and only able to make calls on the top level.
    Also, when I checked Sprint's tower maps they currently have two towers planned for the surrounding area of Elmont, so coverage is only going to get better.
     
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  8. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    Yeah, there is a tower with what must be every carrier on it. Its about 2 blocks from the track, only problem is that it is not very high, at all. If a tower is only 40 feet off the ground, it is not going to get the job done in a situation like this.
     
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  9. GoodmanR

    GoodmanR Silver Senior Member
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    That is right, there probably is just not enough capacity. Now, with ATT I would imagine you would have been fine. 850 is up and running in most of that market now, so ATT users should have been able to make calls on both the 1900 network and 850 network. I am not sure if Cingular has 850 roaming there yet...
     
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  10. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    My friend has Cingular, and is ONLY able to run off t-mobiles network. No ATT 850 for him yet. One quesion about that. Would the cingular phone display ATT if he was on 850, or would it still say cingular?
     
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  11. GoodmanR

    GoodmanR Silver Senior Member
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    Depends on the phone. If it is a GSM only phone it will say AT&T Wireless (when on the T-Mobile network, it will say Cingular because they share the network). If it is a GAIT phone, it may just say Cingular Extend.
     
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  12. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    His phone is a GSM only. While up in Vermont a few months ago, his phone said Cingular Extend. Does this mean he was on ATT 850?
     
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  13. jones

    jones Silver Senior Member
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    So they Performed Bad 'cuz they 1900 MHZ, regardless you use them or Not?

    Have you heard of ERROR CORRECTION CODES used by 1900 MHz operators?
    1900 MHz has more Bandwidth than 850 MHz that's why it's very Ideal for 3G
     
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  14. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    All im saying is that i assume Tmobile did not have good service because they happen to be a 1900 mHz carrier. We all know that the signal does not go through buildings as well as 800. Nothing against Tmobile.
     
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  15. GoodmanR

    GoodmanR Silver Senior Member
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    It sounds like the problem was capacity, not coverage.....Capacity would not be worse on PCS....

    When his phone said Cingular extend, he was on another carrier besides Cingular. I am not sure who it was, it would depend on the area and who the other carriers were there.
     
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  16. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    Are there any other GSM carriers in Vermont other than Cingular?
     
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  17. jones

    jones Silver Senior Member
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    NEXTEL should have the best indoor coverage than since it uses the lowest 800 MHz of all carriers.
     
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  18. Matt

    Matt Twin girls!
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    Do you actually have experience with how good TM was (or wasn't) that day, or you are just assuming they would be bad only b/c of 1900. What if they have a tower nearby? It sounds like you're making an opinion that isn't based on an actual service observation.
     
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  19. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    I did have T-Mobile about 2 years ago, and used it at the belmont stakes. Service was terrible. Assuming there have not been any changes made, im really going by that, and the fact the almost EVERY carrier was on the same tower. This thing was filled, top to almost the base. There was even a carrier ontop of a building next to it. Now assuming that all carriers are on this tower, coverage would be similar to sprint, wouldnt it?
     
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  20. Rasputin

    Rasputin Bronze Senior Member
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    GSM is GSM whether or not it is 900mhz, 1900mhz, or 850mhz, ECC is ECC. 1900mhz tends to provide less coverage per cell site. So PCS carriers need more sites to cover the same areas as 850Mhz Cellular.

    Too bad the coverage was weak. I am surprised they did not COWs there for Sprint and Verizon to fill in the voids and handle the extra load.
     
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  21. Matt

    Matt Twin girls!
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    I have never been to Belmont, so I can't comment specifically on that situation. However, TM will add over 7,000 cell sites in 2003 and 2004 (combined). I certainly would not say that the service in my area is the same as it was two years ago.....it's much better. A couple weeks ago I found about 10 new towers recently approved in the county where I work.

    From that one tower you noted, coverage for both TM and Sprint would probably be similar, but that doesn't take into account any other newer locations. TM put up a slide in a conference a few weeks ago that said they have added over 600 cell sites in the NY metro area over some time frame that I can't recall. I can look for it if you want. They had a decent map too.
     
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  22. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    Thats great that they added so many new sites in NY. I have to say though, that in my immediate area, Tmobile/Cingular service has not improved at all, which is disappointing.
     
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  23. futureMD

    futureMD Member
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    Actually, in my experience, Cingular GSM phones display "Cingular Extend" when GSM-roaming as well. That's one reason people are flashing their v600's to get the true alpha tags. The Cingular SIM overrides the tower. I've heard of some people getting around this if they have a really old SIM from a market that was bought by Cingular like PacBell.
     
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  24. serge2k

    serge2k New Member

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    I live right in front of belmont race track (KFC block if anyone knows where that is), and yes they did put up a tower like 2 blocks away from the track and like 3 blocks away from my house.... i have T-mobile and i HAve PERFECT reception.... i used it during the race too and i didnt have no problem. I get perfect reception all the way to the Cross island highway and more.... Ever since they put that tower last summer its been heaven for me, perfect reception all the way!
     
  25. GoodmanR

    GoodmanR Silver Senior Member
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    Yeah you are right...I think in general they do show Cingular Extend...although I have seen a few phones display the correct tag.
     
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  26. Matt

    Matt Twin girls!
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  27. futureMD

    futureMD Member
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    That's good to hear. My buddy in Bayside will really appreciate that. All calls go to his voicemail unless he stands outside of his house. I'll have to see how many of those towers are going up in Queens.

    EDIT: If my memory of NY geography serves me well, it looks like he should see improved coverage.
     
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  28. MeatChicken

    MeatChicken Senior Member
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    Just a note, for whatever it's worth..... I know 4 different people with VX-4400's, & they all seem to switch into Analog way more often than other phones, for some reason. I will be standing in the same area with my 3586i & can make a full digital call no problem, & he is in analog! I've seen it happen often, while Samsung, nokia & motorola models stay digital. I've only seen my phone switch to analog about 2 or 3 times in the last 2 years, & 1 was the day of the huge East Coast blackout when many cell sites were down, & overloaded. One of my buddies w/ a 4400 sees his phone go to analog almost monthly.
     
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  29. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    Yeah, your right. My friends (a different friend) 4400 will go into analog, while someone standing next to him with a moto 720 was able to make a perfect digital call.
     
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  30. Yankees368

    Yankees368 Compulsive Signal Checker
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    Welcome to Wireless advisor! You really went digging for this thread!
     
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