Welcome to Our WirelessAdvisor Community!

You are viewing our forums as a GUEST. Please join us so you can post and view all the pictures.
Registration is easy, fast and FREE!

Cingular to increase PPU SMS rate in Jan-07

Discussion in 'GENERAL Wireless Discussion' started by Fire14, Dec 8, 2006.

  1. nKrypteD1

    nKrypteD1 Software Architect
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,606
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    My Phone:
    Motorola Droid X
    Wireless Provider(s):
    Verizon
    Re: Thoughts on new SMS rate increase

    Arguement or not, this is a gross change in contract, and I for one don't intend on accepting the new contract. As part of that fact, it's the continuous milking of the consumers, but also because, well, I've had it with cingular's bs.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  2. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2002
    Messages:
    12,735
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    50
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    in front of my computer
    My Phone:
    iPhone SE
    Wireless Provider(s):
    T-Mobile
    Re: Thoughts on new SMS rate increase

    There's no argument they can come up with against something that is in black and white unless they change the contract terms which would be an avenue for a class action lawsuit. However, they can come up with grandfathering options which would be acceptable.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  3. nKrypteD1

    nKrypteD1 Software Architect
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,606
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    My Phone:
    Motorola Droid X
    Wireless Provider(s):
    Verizon
    Re: Thoughts on new SMS rate increase

    Very true, I didn't think about that. But then, will they grandfather all 5* Million subs, or will they only grandfather those who complain, after all if they only charged 15c per message for new subs it wouldn't increase their revenue greatly, if they only extend the grandfather clause to those customers who call in and opt for it then it would likely spawn a class action suit for deceptive practices.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  4. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2002
    Messages:
    12,735
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    50
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    in front of my computer
    My Phone:
    iPhone SE
    Wireless Provider(s):
    T-Mobile
    Re: Thoughts on new SMS rate increase

    I don't think they will automatically grandfather existing PPU customers. That will defeat the purpose of what they want to do. However, it may take a public scandal (like the one faced by Verizon recently) for them to start grandfathering people. I heard Sprint started doing that after they saw too many people fighting for their right to quit without ETF.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  5. nKrypteD1

    nKrypteD1 Software Architect
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,606
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    My Phone:
    Motorola Droid X
    Wireless Provider(s):
    Verizon
    Re: Thoughts on new SMS rate increase

    Guess I'll push up to quitting as soon as I get my subsidy unlock code. Should be tomorrow :D
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  6. QLR

    QLR RIP Note!
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    4,003
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    47
    Likes Received:
    625
    My Phone:
    Samsung Galaxy S8+
    Wireless Provider(s):
    VZW, AT&T based Tracfone, T-Mobile
    Wirelessly posted (Q's Mobile Device: Opera/8.01 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/3.0.6306/1528; en; U; ssr))

    I heard that the Pick your plan prepaid option will have the SMS rate hiked to 15 cents. How about the Pay As You Go prepaid option?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  7. nKrypteD1

    nKrypteD1 Software Architect
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,606
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    My Phone:
    Motorola Droid X
    Wireless Provider(s):
    Verizon
    Most likely as well that they'll increase, I know that was at 10 cents a message earlier this year.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  8. Andy

    Andy Diamond Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,281
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    130
    Likes Received:
    7
    My Phone:
    HTC Thunderbolt
    Wireless Provider(s):
    VZW, Vodafone D2, Solomo, Swisscom Mobile
    I remember reading that those are affected as well.
     
  9. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2002
    Messages:
    12,735
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    50
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    in front of my computer
    My Phone:
    iPhone SE
    Wireless Provider(s):
    T-Mobile
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  10. PCSuser

    PCSuser Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2006
    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Southern US; Born a Brit!
    My Phone:
    PPC-6700 w/ WM6
    Wireless Provider(s):
    Sprint PCS - happily holding crystal clear calls!
    To anyone who may be confused, and think that Cingulars contract is contradictory, it is not. It simply states the following...

    1st they say...

    We may change any terms, conditions, rates, fees, expenses, or charges regarding your
    service at any time. - which they succesfully did pay-per-use texting went from .10 to .15 per message
    We will provide you with notice of such changes either in your monthly bill or separately." - which they also successfully did in the bill.

    then next they say this...

    IF WE INCREASE THE PRICE OF ANY
    OF THE SERVICES TO WHICH YOU SUBSCRIBE - which they did (and via the statement above they are allowed to do, and they will even be nice and provide you a notice about the rate change.

    Then as a customer (who signed the contract) is eligable to do this due to the fact that they changed their fees and provided you a notice...

    YOU MAY TERMINATE
    THIS AGREEMENT WITHOUT PAYING AN EARLY TERMINATION FEE OR
    RETURNING OR PAYING FOR ANY PROMOTIONAL ITEMS - since Cingular has changed their rates which they contract clearly states they can do it at any time, and they did provide a notice; this part of the contract states that when they change the rates, and provide a notice we are allowed to cancel without penelization (as a customer).
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. Fire14

    Fire14 Easy,Cheap & Sleazy
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2002
    Messages:
    8,446
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    293
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Union County NJ
    My Phone:
    EnV
    Wireless Provider(s):
    Verizon
    Now to see if this hits the major media stations, I am sure they will be un-relentless in trying to get an official statement from Cingular.
     
  12. Fire14

    Fire14 Easy,Cheap & Sleazy
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2002
    Messages:
    8,446
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    293
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Union County NJ
    My Phone:
    EnV
    Wireless Provider(s):
    Verizon
    The difference with the statement that is bolded, is this is for Pay per use & not a subscribed part of your plan, such as the SMS plans or even your plan with the minutes.

    But that doesn't mean they aren't making a material change in the rates for SMS & it still should give you an out, if you don't have an SMS plan since you can't control the incoming SMS that you recieve & originally agreed to the 10 cents per message.
     
  13. nKrypteD1

    nKrypteD1 Software Architect
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,606
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    My Phone:
    Motorola Droid X
    Wireless Provider(s):
    Verizon
    Exactly, I can just see the rats jumping off the ship on this one, I'm sure there'll be at least a few thousand customers going the way of the buffalo due to this, myself included.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  14. karnec

    karnec New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    Hello!

    I became aware of the rate increase by my local news and then was notified on my statement.

    I contacted Cingular immediately and was told that text messaging is an 'optional' feature (actually, I think the rep said "optionable" -- is that a word?) and therefore they would not waive the ETF. Regardless of their own Terms and Conditions and their failure to outline or define optional features in the T&Cs--they would not budge. The call was supposedly escalated to a manager and he simply told me that their lawyers were aware of this, that it is completely legal and every carrier has the right to change their fees. To which I responded that I understood that and I was exercising my right per my contract to terminate without the ETF. He told me that he would not waive the fee and then he tried to upsell me on new plans and equipment. ARGH

    The following day, I called back to terminate my account and they were more than willing to... WITH THE ETF. I explained that the increase was a modification to my contract and that I would like to terminate without the ETF as it is stated in my contract. I was then put on hold for another 10 minutes and the rep returned to explain to me that text messaging is an optional feature and therefore not part of the contract. She couldn't answer my questions as to why the contract didn't define optional features or outline exclusions and I was left with nothing, except frustration.

    I have filed a complaint with the FCC as recommended on ConsumerAction.org and I've notified my local station that I'm getting nowhere with Cingular and now I'm here to get any advice I can.

    Does anyone have any recommendations as to how I should proceed?
     
  15. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6,003
    Likes Received:
    854
    My Phone:
    iPhone XS Space Grey
    Wireless Provider(s):
    AT&T; Tmobile SIM only
    Let me see if I understand the math here. Only for people not in a SMS package, their rates goes up from $0.10 to 0.15 per SMS, sent or received.

    The lowest package from Cingular is $4.99 for 200 SMS's per month (ie $0.025/SMS).

    So the breakpoint for a non Package person is (old plan) $4.99/0.10 or 50 SMS's per month.

    Since courtesy requires a reply SMS for everyone sent, a user limit is 50/2 or 25 SMS sent per month, or about 1 per day of sent SMS. (Most likely if your're so close to the 25 limit your probably went to a packge already...get 100 sent (200 total) for the same price)

    So lets assume that person is more likely to be sending 12 SMS a month (like my wife), and receives 12 back for a total of 24 per month.

    So with the increase of $0.05 per SMS in the new plan, your cost is now 24 x $0.05 or $1.20 increase per month. Worst case would be the limit 50 per month or $2.40. But if your averaging that, you'd be crazy not to go with the $4.99 package and get 200SMS since your're paying for it anyway! In my wife's case those 24 SMS per month have an absolute cost to me of $3.60. Next month it could be zero $.

    So for a potential $1.20 increase per month, someone is going to dump Cingular, lose Rollover, access to a large selection of cool phones every 18months, largest US carrier, good coverage (US and International), etc, etc.?? :loony: Not to mention valuable personal time wasted on the phone to get out of an ETF for an optional feature?

    Sure Cingular wants to earn more $$, but from the customer point of view, reason doesn't allow me to think this is a big burden. And no, I don't work for Cingular ;)

    But sometimes it is more useful to look at the absolute $$ and not the percentage increase. With the new SMS rate, the new breakpoint is $4.99/0.15 or 33 SMS per month or 16 messages sent per month (assuming one reply). For that price you get 200SMS instead
     
    #45 viewfly, Dec 15, 2006
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2006
  16. karnec

    karnec New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    California
    viewfly-

    i recognize cingular's value, yet i don't understand the need for a contract if they are not bound by their own terms. sure a 50% increase isn't going to break the bank, but that is not my point. the point is, i have upheld my end of the contract and i would expect the same from the provider. i believe that's why there is a contract in the first place-- to protect both parties.

    k
     
  17. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6,003
    Likes Received:
    854
    My Phone:
    iPhone XS Space Grey
    Wireless Provider(s):
    AT&T; Tmobile SIM only
    BTW, welcome to the WA forums! My math wasn't directly at your situation; but I'm figuring that there must be other reasons someone wants out of a Cingy contract over this...the dollars don't really add up to a good enough reason.

    But I grant that you have a point, in that you felt that at the time of signing, your knownledge was that SMS, if you chose to use it, would be only 0.10$.

    And it would be different if you signed up for a messaging bundle, mediaworks bundle, phone insurance, etc at the time of your contract. Those should and are frozen. But if you didn't, then they are only options that, when you decide to take them in the future, you have to go at the current rate. I think it is pretty clear that your T&C apply to the minutes per month, rollover, etc. that are normally stated in the 'plan' web pages. Mediaworks is always an option, and you pay at the going market rate for that if you sign up after the initial contract.

    I think that is Cingular's logic with regard to SMS per use. Over the years, they have changed bundle packages, but I've been always allowed to keep my grandfathered package...but normally the price goes down so I change.

    I really doubt there is a legal leg to stand on, other than political pressure to Cingular. The ETF fee really mostly supports the low cost of phones to the consumers...those free to $100 phones retail at $200 to $400 each.
     
  18. nKrypteD1

    nKrypteD1 Software Architect
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,606
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    My Phone:
    Motorola Droid X
    Wireless Provider(s):
    Verizon
    I disagree bud, see the problem is cingular is breaking the contract by making a change to the base service, by that reasoning the contract is null and void. Meaning that anybody who wants out can argue this one and has a legal leg to stand on, all stipulations set forth by said contract are now null and void which is why cancellation without an early termination fee is plausible.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  19. Andy

    Andy Diamond Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,281
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    130
    Likes Received:
    7
    My Phone:
    HTC Thunderbolt
    Wireless Provider(s):
    VZW, Vodafone D2, Solomo, Swisscom Mobile
    Over on Hofo, some are now stating that this will also affect contract users. Also, some users are stating that PPU text messaging (at 10 cents per text sent/received) is outlined in Cingular brochures as included FEATURES.
     
  20. Andy

    Andy Diamond Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,281
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    130
    Likes Received:
    7
    My Phone:
    HTC Thunderbolt
    Wireless Provider(s):
    VZW, Vodafone D2, Solomo, Swisscom Mobile
    Looks like this is getting more and more media attention: RCR News is covering this today:

    Cingular raises text messaging fee from 10 to 15 cents

    By Mike Dano
    Story posted: December 15, 2006 - 1:00 pm EDT

    Advertisement
    Click Here for Advertisers Website!

    Cingular Wireless L.L.C., the nation’s largest wireless carrier, plans to raise the price of sending and receiving text messages from 10 cents to 15 cents per message. The move comes shortly after rival Sprint Nextel Corp. also raised the price for its text messaging from 10 cents to 15 cents.

    Cingular’s price increase goes into effect Jan. 21.

    Interestingly, Cingular said the pricing change will not affect its early termination fee. Subscribers will still have to pay the fee to cancel their contract.

    “That doesn’t apply here, this is simply a pricing change for pay-per-use text messaging, which is an optional service,” said Rochelle Cohen, a spokeswoman for Cingular.

    When Sprint Nextel raised its text messaging price, the carrier said the change would allow affected customers to cancel their service without paying the carrier’s ETF.

    Early termination fees typically run about $200 per line.

    Cingular’s Cohen stressed that the carrier offers “great values” for text messaging. Cingular’s text messaging plans run from 200 messages per month for $5 to 3,000 messages per month for $20.

    The carrier’s pricing change only affects those customers who are not on a messaging plan, meaning, those who pay for each text message they send or receive. Cohen declined to say how many customers the change affects. Cingular counts around 58 million subscribers.

    Cohen said the pricing change is “in line with the competition,” but declined to give a further explanation for the increased text messaging charges.

    T-Mobile USA Inc. and Verizon Wireless currently charge 10 cents to send and receive text messages.
    http://www.rcrnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061215/FREE/61215010/1002
     
  21. Andy

    Andy Diamond Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Messages:
    10,281
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    130
    Likes Received:
    7
    My Phone:
    HTC Thunderbolt
    Wireless Provider(s):
    VZW, Vodafone D2, Solomo, Swisscom Mobile

    Wow..."Great values." Go to T-Mobile, and everyone on your family share plan can have unlimited Texting for a total of $15 a month. Go to Sprint and you can have unlimited texts for $15. Go to Verizon, and at least they offer unlimited IN Texting plus buckets to use for people that are not with Verizon. ALLTEL offers unlimited texts. Cingular has the worst text messaging rates of any carrier.
     
  22. Fire14

    Fire14 Easy,Cheap & Sleazy
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2002
    Messages:
    8,446
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    293
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Union County NJ
    My Phone:
    EnV
    Wireless Provider(s):
    Verizon
    I think a solution that Cingular could do & prevent a lot of this negative news reports and customer complains, would be to change there current SMS plans to more attractive ones & more then just the 2.
    People would most likely get the plans if they had more options, especially like the Verizon "IN" texting abilities.
     
  23. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6,003
    Likes Received:
    854
    My Phone:
    iPhone XS Space Grey
    Wireless Provider(s):
    AT&T; Tmobile SIM only
    3000 minutes for $20 is pretty much unlimited. That's 100 SMS per day every day for a month, or about 7 SMS per hour, every hour for a 15 hour day, every day for a 30 day month.

    Sort of like unlimited N/W and even Rollover where many people have 5,000minutes in reserve that they are not likely to use.
     
  24. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6,003
    Likes Received:
    854
    My Phone:
    iPhone XS Space Grey
    Wireless Provider(s):
    AT&T; Tmobile SIM only
    I don't think so. It's not a real change to the base contract. But like I said, political and perception pressure will make them change, but not a legal argument.

    IMO, anyone who wants to leave Cingular over a variable price increase (that is soley dependent upon their opton to use SMS) up to a few dollars max, has other reasons to want to terminate...and they are just itching for a way to get out of the EFT for free.

    This is not an exact analogy, but one buys that new car without the A/C option. Dealer says, 'no problem, you can add it later for only $600...that's the beauty of this design'. Two years down the road you go for it...except now it costs $1200. It happens. Should have bought it with the new car.
     
  25. Matt

    Matt Twin girls!
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2001
    Messages:
    4,882
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    2
    Likes Received:
    8
    Location:
    Lititz, Pa.
    My Phone:
    MyTouch 4G
    Wireless Provider(s):
    T-Mobile
    Looking at the T-Mobile T&C, it seems pretty clear to me that TM could change almost anything other than your base monthly rate plan, and not let you out without paying an ETF. OTOH, from a customer service perspective it's not woth the hassle to fight this stuff, and when TM increased their SMS rates earlier this year they allowed you to quit without ETF.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  26. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6,003
    Likes Received:
    854
    My Phone:
    iPhone XS Space Grey
    Wireless Provider(s):
    AT&T; Tmobile SIM only

    I agree. It's not worth the hassle both c/s and the customer. Cingular probably knows the numbers and how many people are complaining. They will decide if it is so few to let it go without ETF, or if they were likely to lose the customer anyhow...grap some extra bucks from them.

    BTW, with Cingular, the messaging bundles, like Mediaworks, is per line on a family plan. Each member must and can have separate and different SMS plans Meaning that a family does not share the SMS bundle. Unlike, N/W, Rollover, shared minutes, which are shared this is even more evidence that SMS per use is not part of the base plan, IMO.
     
  27. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    4,467
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    My Phone:
    Pixel XL
    Wireless Provider(s):
    Verizon Wireless; MTS

    Yes, but that's a dangerous path to take because a similar logic can be applied to overages. What if Cingular decides to raise the overage rate to $2.00/min? Overages are definitely "optional", are they going to not let people out without an ETF in such an event as well?
     
  28. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Messages:
    6,003
    Likes Received:
    854
    My Phone:
    iPhone XS Space Grey
    Wireless Provider(s):
    AT&T; Tmobile SIM only
    No, it is not the same. That would be breaking the contract, since the charge for overages is always stated clearly with number of minutes for a given plan. It is part of the plan contract.

    That would allow getting out of contract without an ETF.
     
  29. dmapr

    dmapr Silver Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    4,467
    Likes Received:
    1,177
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    My Phone:
    Pixel XL
    Wireless Provider(s):
    Verizon Wireless; MTS
    The last time I've seen any paperwork was back in the TDMA days (I did GSM over the phone) but back then all charges were stated on the contract I signed -- including the features such as VM, text messaging, etc. Without the actual paperwork it's hard to tell what falls where :(
     
  30. Fire14

    Fire14 Easy,Cheap & Sleazy
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2002
    Messages:
    8,446
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    293
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Union County NJ
    My Phone:
    EnV
    Wireless Provider(s):
    Verizon
    Reading this from the plans terms & conditions, it doesn't say anything about SMS cost within the US, EXCEPT "they are charged at their standard rates"
    What I don't like about the T&C's is there is no way to know when they change them for updates, and unless someone has a copy within the last year, it's hard to prove if they did change them & if the original had the 10 cents per SMS.

    So if this is their orignal T&C, then you can not get out of the contract without paying the ETF.

    I wish I had the old Blue T&C to see if it had the rate in it, since Cingular bought all of the Blue customers & Contracts.
     

Share This Page

Copyright 1997-2022 Wireless Advisor™, LLC. All rights reserved. All registered and unregistered trademarks are the property of their respective holders.
WirelessAdvisor.com is not associated by ownership or membership with any cellular, PCS or wireless service provider companies and is not meant to be an endorsement of any company or service. Some links on these pages may be paid advertising or paid affiliate programs.

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice