Cingular/Tmobile GSM vs AT&T GSM in NJ...who rules?

Thanks Bobolito for showing this dumb-a** the true light to the situation.

 

Also, to 'batigolaso,' the fact that Deutsche Telekom bought T-Mobile even proofs my point more that Deutsche Telekom has alot of money, a whole lot. They are partly owned by the German government; You think they don't have money.
Also, don't think that Voicestream had no choice but to be bought out; they were bought out because they wanted to make themselves not just a national service provider, but the ONYL, ONLY seemless International Service Provider.

 

You're welcome Chris. However, I wouldn't resort to name calling under these circumstances.

 

bobolito: I simply took the data from the voicestream website. I don't know if it's accurate or not, but given that it's on their website, I would expect it to be. If not, then we can't know the current cingular situation either as there might be some webiste out there that claims something differently than their website. As for Cingular being an affiliate:
T-mobile doesn't have towers in Ca, NV, or the carolinas (I assume, since they're roaming on Cingular there). Last I checked the population of CA was 54 million. If this is then true, T-mobile can not have 97% of the population covered without considering cingular as their "affiliate".

aiwapro: not once did I call you any names. I'm simply stating facts that you choose to ignore and instead attack me. You couldn't come up with any better comments about your being so far ahead with the EDGE? As for Deuthe Telekom: not once did I say they didn't have money. Companies without money do not buy other companies The reason T-mobile was bought out had nothing to do with their own desire to be international. It may have had something to do with DT's desire to be international though T-mobile had very little say in the matter. Second, they were bought out, and since the buyout, both companies have seen their stocks tumble. Third, voicestream, according to business.com is the smallest major US. provider with 8 million users. last year alone they lost 3 billion dollars. Also, business.com reports that DT is trying to sell them. What does that tell you about their future? The point is: it doesn't even matter. DT has a ton of money, i'm sure. But the fact they're trying to unload them, as well as the fact that "voicestream" is still losing billions, is not an indication of good things to come for voicestream.

You can read the article I'm referring to here: http://www.business2.com/articles/web/0,1653,40706,FF.html.

EDIT: also, this article published on dec. 24th still talks about cingular still possibly merging with tmobile or atat.
http://www.post-gazette.com/businessnews/20021224telecom1224p3.asp

 

I don't care what these supid articles say. T-Mobile themselves said that they are keeping T-Mobile U.S. What everyone else sas doesn't matter.

 

Quick question aiwapro...2 actualy.

1.) Why do you have 3 seperate lines from one company? (If you don't mind me asking)

2.) Aiwapro is an intresting name...anything to do with the Electronics company?

Just curious.

 

I got a phone for my mother, my grandmother, and my friend.

Yeah, I was just looking at my stereo a long time ago, and then look at the control stick to my videogame, and I put the two together. My control stick was called a "SGPropad6" or something like that, and my stereo was and still is an "Aiwa."

 

1.)
I agree with you. It does take time and testing. My point was simply that alot of the MONEY that would be spent for the process of building new towers/site would have already been spen a long time ago by someone else and that giving the US comprable GSM coverage to Europe would be alot faster if this were the case.

2.)
What is the big deal with 3g anyway. For right now the vast majority of users don't want/need it. True, being in the position of having it when they do is very important. But how good will it be anyway. Any details on Tmo's 3g integration would be greatly appreciated.

3.)
Your right about ATT GSM being crap by the way. They day they turn it on for good is the day i find another carier.

 

Cingular/Tmobile GSM vs AT&T GSM in NJ...who rules?

Did we ever answer the original question?

 

My answer to the original question is in the first page of this thread.

 

bobolito: Excellent responses. All accurate and well stated. I hope you get a tower from T-M in 2003! Hey I'm using the new one in Fair Lawn all this week! (BTW 8.9 million subs as of 9/30)

batigolaso: One of this things to keep in mid when making comparisons is the TDMA vs. GSM area. Yes, Cingular does have many more subscribers than T-M, and it is more revenue. But the real idea behind any potential merger between the two companies is in the GSM area. In this case, T-M leads the way both in network coverage and subscribers. Network comparisons are GSM since TDMA is going away, and the numbers show that T-M has more licenses.

Cingular is not an "affiliate" of T-Mobile. The Affiliates are companies like Iowa Wireless LP and Cook Inlet Inc who own or partially own some of the licenses T-M uses due to FCC regulations. Also, be careful of how you talk about losses. While the numbers are technically accurate, they do not give a true picture of the company's financial state. In this case the $3B figure is there b/c the Gov't changed the way in which carriers are required to amortize their licensing costs, forcing them to do it at once instead of spreading it out over 30 years. So be careful tossing numbers around unless you know why there are there. It's a paper loss, not "real" money that affects day to day operations.

 

Matt, I knew where those #'s were coming from. However, 3 billion dollars, regardless of how or when it's used is still a lot of cash, cash which t-mobile unfortunately dosen't have (hence the debt). As for the affiliation: I understand the fact that there are regional affiliates and those are who they're referring to. However: T-mobile says it reaches 95% of the US population with it's "affiliates". Since Cingular is the main GSM provider in all of CA (unless I'm mistaken), that would mean that in order to cover 95% of the population, they would have to consider Cingular some sort of affiliate. If not, 280 million in the US - 54 million in CA, and there is no way you're at 95%. Do you see what I'm saying?

As for the merger talk, I'm aware that it's because of the gsm issues. Cingular wants more coverage, and tmobile wants someone to buy them out so that hopefully the new company can actually make some money. I think it's a great deal for both of them. Maybe not for teh consumer, but it's a good business deal (as I see it).

 

You don't know what you're talking about. Cingular is not an affiliate of T-Mobile.

What you're referring to in Cali: That network IS NOT Cingular's. It is no longer Cingular's. When the two made those agreements, the network turned from being just Cingular's to being a 50/50 share. You now have to refer to the Cali area as a T-Mobile/Cingular network, not just T-Mobile roaming on Cingular. It's the same thing with NYC. It's the same agreement. In fact, the Cali agreement was in exchange for NYC. Cingular needed NYC area, and T-Mobile need the California area. They both got what they wanted and they both share the network 50/50, towers, base stations, repair, etc. If anything goes wrong with the network, they split the money to repair it right down the middle.

You are dead wrong about the merging situation. T-Mobile doesn't "wants someone to buy them out so that hopefully the new company can actually make some money." That's is so stupid. T-Mobile is well on their way to making money on their own. They are bringing in the more and more customers every quarter. Many of the other top carriers are loosing customers. T-Mobile was just looking to see what was out there. What were their options. The fact is, their better than every other GSM carrier, and they don't need any of them. It would be a one sided deal. Sure Cingular has more customers, but T-Mobile is taking those customers without having to merge with anyone. Also, merging with any other carrier would cost them more money, because of all of this upgrading they are having to do from TDMA to GSM. T-Mobile is ready to upgrade from GSM to EDGE. They don't want to have to wait another year and get left behind, because they have to clean up another carrier's mess. It just doens't make since.

Therefore, T-Mobile chose to stand alone.

 

batigolaso. The quote you are referring to talks about licenses. T-M and its affiliates have licenses to cover over 95% of the population. T-M owns numerous licenses in CA, inclusing those that have nothing to do with Cingular. Cingular and T-Mobile have agreed to share their licenses and network in CA, NV, and NYC metro. As aiwapro noted, those networks are not singularly owned anymore. It is called "The Factory" by Cingular and "GSM Alliance" (I think) by T-Mobile. While the hardware is owned by the "original" owners, it is a true joint operating agreement.

BTW the population of CA is 35 million, not 54.

http://eire.census.gov/popest/data/states/tables/ST-EST2002-01.php

 

By referring to the FCC, you can see that there are two owners for the PCS block A license in NYC. One is T-Mobile and the other is SBC (Cingular).

 

does it matter........i love cell phones and cell technologies.....i may have my opinions about certain things but i try to help out as much as i can with out being too controversial...............

 

I was just asking because you used the personal pronoun "We" when referring to Cingular. Sorry if I offended you.

 

no offense taken.....you seem to know ALOT about cell technology.....wish i knew that much...keep up the good work

 

Do yourself a favor. Get all the zip codes of all the places in Jesrsey you EVER see yourself going to. Take these zip codes into a Tmobile store and ask them to use the companies internal coverage website and show you almost exactly what the coverage for them in those areas is. This will gove you your TMobile/Cingular info. ATT is still a mystery. The general concensus among the city's private wireless dealers thouh is that ATT TDMA is great, ATT GSM will doom the company.

 

AT&T GSM in New Jersey now in the past couple of weeks it has started to turn on and is the best to go with

 

Just some news for all of those people with such high high hopes for AT&T GSM. They have announced that instead of launching a 3G network in the 16 original cities that they had chosen, it will on be 4. It will take them until the end of 2004 for this to happen. They are gonna fall so so far behind. 4 cities, 2 years, LOL.

 

Just out of curiosity, Aiwa, has T-Mobile announced when they will have WCDMA?

 

I don't know about recent press releases, but I know along time ago, they said they would begin EDGE upgrades at the end of 2003. As you and many others have probably noticed, T-Mobile don't really talk and have press conferences on every step they take like many of the other providers. T-Mobile just oes it, they sometimes don't even advertise it, like MMS. They have that, but don't advertise it.

 

No official word from T-M on EDGE or w-CDMA. That's the best course of action IMO. No need to set a date and then miss it my a year or so. All of the new cities since last summer were built with EDGE equipment installed, and I imagine they are adding that to the rest of the network....but w/o any phones it doesn't really matter anyway.

I think T-M Germany is launching w-CDMA this year.

 

Good points.