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Cingular in New York Metro

Discussion in 'Northeastern US Wireless Forum' started by Guest, May 28, 2002.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Can anyone tell me when Cingular will be in NYC? I know they say "this summer" but what does that mean? my sprint pcs phone is dead and i don't want to stay with them. if cingular's not in nyc soon, i'm thinking of signing up with cingular in southern california and then switching to a new york number when they are up and running.
     
  2. dobby10

    dobby10 Senior Member
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    Cingular was supposed to start at the end of last year. Now I am guessing the end of next month. Why not just sign up for Voicestream? Cingular will be using voicestreams towers to supply service to the metro area.
     
  3. Dukedog

    Dukedog Senior Member
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    Cingular will be in NYC in June or early July.
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    How will this work out for Cingular?
    I live in the NYC metro area and the "A" side is ATT and the "B" side is Verizon. I notice when I enter Fairfield County Conn. the "A" side becomes Verizon and the "B" side is Cingular.
    Very confusing.
     
  5. Dukedog

    Dukedog Senior Member
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    From what I know A scan carrier (means non-wireline carrier) and B scan (means wirelinr carrier) and what that means is that most B line carrier provides local (Landline phones) and A line carrier doesn't, I might be wrong, but that what I think it means. So with that in mind, my guess in that Cingular is A line. I even heard if C,B,D<E, so they could be one those too.
     
  6. Matt

    Matt Twin girls!
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    Cingular GSM is using/sharing VoiceStream's spectrum in NYC metro (they swapped some a while back but they are throwing it all together). I think it is C block, but I'll have to check.

    In CT, Cingular is the former SNET Southern New England Telephone TDMA.
     
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  7. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Dukedog, Matt, Anonymous, 'whoever',

    It's not confusing at all.

    Cingular operates on the 1900MHz PCS frequencies in NYC and most everywhere else in New York State. They are NOT an 'A-side' or 'B-side' CELLULAR carrier there.

    Not sure which of the PCS bands they are on -- but when talking about PCS there are 6 PRIMARY bands (A-F) with several of those being subdivided (A-1, A-2, etc). So to say that someone (Cingular!?) is 'A-band' PCS makes no statement whatsoever about the 800MHz cellular carriers.

    In CT Cingular is indeed the sucessor carrier to SNET. SBC bought SNET. SBC owns Cingular. SNET Wireless became Cingular. In CT SNET was (is!) the 'B-side' cellular carrier. (Verizon and ATT are 'A-side' in different places..) All Cingular CT service is 800 TDMA.

    It will be 'exciting' for current CT Cingular customers commuting to NYC. They now 'roam' on ATT in the city..
     
  8. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    Anonymous, you can sign up with Cingular right now if you want. My sister living in Queens has Cingular using AT&T TDMA towers. I don't think Cingular will give you a California number while having a billing address in NYC, but I got a Central NJ number from Cingular although I live in the NYC area.
    When they start GSM in NYC later on this summer, you can change your number if you want.

    I am not sure how the spectrum works for GSM systems but as far as I know, the A and B system bands were assigned to carriers that offer analog service long time ago. They are now the current CDMA and TDMA carriers across the US because they carry both digital and analog in the 800Mhz band. The C, D, E and F bands were assigned to the digital-only carriers in the 1900Mhz band. That includes Sprint, some AT&T markets and whoever else uses the 1900Mhz spectrum.

    By the way, Cingular operates in 800Mhz in the A system in most markets across the US. In NYC they use AT&T 800Mhz towers. Your phone may switch to 1900Mhz or the B system depending on the agreements in other areas of the US. In CT, you can use Cingular in 800Mhz B system but in some regions your phone can switch to 1900Mhz. In NYC, Cingular doesn't have its own system yet although later on this year, they will start a joint venture with Voicestream to offer GSM service.

    In the meantime, Cingular uses AT&T 800Mhz in NYC which is in the A band.
     
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  9. FlyBoy

    FlyBoy New Member

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    Bobolito,

    It does get confusing, I know. But BOTH the cellular (800MHz) and the PCS (1900MHz) services have an 'A' and 'B' band. PCS A and B are even subdivided into A1, A2, ... and B1, B2 etc... PCS A and cellular A are definitely different

    This link is one of many on the Web that shows how the cellular and PCS frequencies are organized.

    PCS frequency link
     
  10. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    You are right but I never heard of subdivisions of A and B. I do know that in 800Mhz there's system a and b (lowercase) and for 1900Mhz there's A,B,C,D,E and F (uppercase). I didn't write it correctly the first time. Those subdivisions though are really patches of extra spectrum added to the 800Mhz bands.
    I wish people didn't use the term PCS to distinguish between 800Mhz and 1900Mhz. It's companies marketing strategies that keep misusing the term. There's nothing different between the services offered in either 1900Mhz or 800Mhz.
     
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  11. FlyBoy

    FlyBoy New Member

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    Complain to the FCC. I didn't make the rules.

    'PCS (Personal Communication Service)' is a LEGAL term for the digital communications services offered in the 1900MHz frequency range. The legal term for the 800 MHz is 'Cellular Radiotelephone Service'.

    If you're a carrier, there ARE differences. If you hold one of the 800 MHz 'cellular' licenses, you MUST supply and support ANALOG (at least for the next few years). You MAY operate digitally if you want. If you hold a PCS license, you may NOT operate analog, and you must operate digitally only. There are some 800 carriers that do not (yet!) support digital. Mostly small and mostly rural.

    And I know, it's a distinction lost on all but the really, really weird (like many of us on WA!)...
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    okay, so if all 800MHz is classified as cellular and requires support for analog, why doesn't Nextel support analog? Apparently their proprietary iDEN system is acceptable in the 800MHz range...
     
  13. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    Anonymous: Flyboy is talking about the carriers in the a or b bands. Nextel uses a different band although is still 800Mhz.
    Flyboy: Read again, I am talking about the services offered in 800Mhz and 1900Mhz are the same. You can do SMS, Wireless Web, voice quality is the same, and the same air technologies are available in both bands (TDMA and CDMA). I wasn't talking about licensing rules. While officially, PCS was defined as a digital cellular service in the 1900 MHz band only, in practice, most providers are using their 800 MHz allocation to offer PCS or digital cellular services. There's nothing you can do on 1900Mhz that you cannot do on 800Mhz.

    For more info, go to: http://www.arcx.com/sites/Technical%20Comparison.htm


    << ...The FCC started formulating plans for a whole new set of frequencies for a system to be called "Personal Communications Service", or PCS for short. It would be completely digital, and would accommodate not only voice transmission, but data transmission as well.

    Confusion has surrounded the use of the term PCS. Some people claim that for a service to truly be called PCS, it must work at 1900 Mhz (the new set of frequencies allocated for this purpose). They say that services using identical technology on 800 Mhz (the old cellular frequencies) are not really PCS at all. As far as I am concerned, this is a worthless argument, since it means nothing to the subscriber. The technologies work just as well at 800 Mhz as they do at 1900 Mhz. Don't let yourself get roped into this argument, unless you like pointless controversy.
    >>
     
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  14. MTS2000

    MTS2000 Junior Member
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    << okay, so if all 800MHz is classified as cellular and requires support for analog, why doesn't Nextel support analog? Apparently their proprietary iDEN system is acceptable in the 800MHz range... >>



    Nextel isn't cellular, it is an enhanced SMR (specialized mobile radio) network, and it is interleaved in the 851-864MHz band, which is why they interfere with us public safety users in the 851-870 band. Nextel wants us to move to solve a major problem that THEY created (public safety was here long before Nextel on the 800MHz band) and want US (taxpayers) to pay for it. Also, companies with major investments in 800MHz SMR channels will lose out bigtime, such as Fedex, who operate a nationwide package tracking system.

    For more about Nextel realignment and public safety interference:

    http://www.ita-relay.com
    http://www.apco.org/project39

    The iDEN system does not support analog operation, nor does it even support conventional two way (unit to unit talkaround)without being on the network. Also, remember that Nextel is in a different part of the 800 band, cellular is above at 870, and is a different radio service altogether. I did verify that Nextel now offers roaming in Canada on ClearNet, a Canadian SMR provider.

    Hope this "clears the air" on this issue.

    Correct URL for APCO project 39 is here:



    http://www.apcointl.org/frequency/project_39/
     
  15. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    Cell phones in the A and B bands transmit in the 824 - 849Mhz and their towers transmit from 869 - 894Mhz. Where does Nextel fit in? In the 850Mhz - 868Mhz block? or below 824Mhz?

    Refer to the Cellular Frequency Chart posted by Flyboy above.
     
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  16. MTS2000

    MTS2000 Junior Member
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    << Cell phones in the A and B bands transmit in the 824 - 849Mhz and their towers transmit from 869 - 894Mhz. Where does Nextel fit in? In the 850Mhz - 868Mhz block? or below 824Mhz?

    Refer to the Cellular Frequency Chart posted by Flyboy above.
    >>



    Nextel's base stations are iinterleaved with other services in the 851-864MHz band, with base stations transmitting on 851-864 and the handsets transmitting at 824 and below. Under their new realignment, public safety would occupy this spectrum and they would get contiguous spectrum from 864-870, including the NPSPAC channels in the 866-870 band, which are now exclusively public safety. Supposedly, this separation will eliminate Nextel-public safety interference, but the real reason behind it is so that Nextel can get contiguous spectrum, which is the only way to implement 3G, as their allocations are currently spread out all over the 800 SMR band. Without contigous spectrum, they cannot implement more modern platforms such as wCDMA.
     

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