Chinook Wireless to Replace CDMA w/ GSM Network

Cingular doesn't need to take on any new debt. "Why buy the cow when the milk's free" or, at least, cheap.

A carrier like this needs to be the price leader, but the investors also want a good return on their money. What attracted you to be one of their customers in the first place?

Have Alltel and Verizon stepped up their advertising locally, and have they added extra staff to help sign up new customers? We need carriers like Chinook to survive, I hope they don't blow it. Being the only GSM carrier in the area will be a big advantage.

 

I was originally a land line customer of Blackfoot Telecommunications (a cooperative phone company), the only carrier in the area I lived. When Blackfoot added the wireless division years ago, I got a cell to complement it. Then I moved out of the Blackfoot land line area, got a QWest land line, and kept the Blackfoot cell, as the cdma network was adequate. Since then, the quality of the cdma network deteriorated. Then Blackfoot sold their wireless division to Chinook (or merged it with Three Rivers, how ever you want to look at it). So I got swept along the way, with a year left on one contract, and 18 months on the other. Didn't mind having contracts with a Coop I was invested in. But Chinook hasn't let me out of them yet. Or I'd be gone. I may just break the agreement anyway, if things don't get markedly better, fast.

Yes Alltel and Verizon have stepped up their advertising. I'm sure that they are poised to suck up Chinook cast offs. I do know that many people from out of state who visit here are thrilled about the GSM network (my brother from Texas included).

I think that for coverage in this part of Montana it might come down more to tower placement, and number of them, than technology, to ultimately provide good coverage.

On the upside, I did get a good capital credit check from Blackfoot this year; reaping the rewards of investing in a Coop, and sharing in the profits from selling the cell division (or is that celling the sell division?) ;-)

Jim

 

Okey dokey, I thought of breaking contract with Alltel (and selling my V3C on Ebay) when Chinook went GSM. THAT was a stupid thought to have ever had. See stupid me, I knew Chinook was crazy-expensive (and Blackfoot was dirt cheap, but I thought that maybe, just MAYBE that'd change with GSM. It got WORSE.

WHY anyone would pay $59.99 for 900 minutes that die at the edge of Columbia Falls, when $49.99 will get you 1000 minutes on Alltel that go up into West Glacier (not to mention far better cell density in town).

Chinook, get it over with - get bought by Cingular.

And T-Mobile - PLEASE come on into Montana!

 

One more note, their CDMA network has been entirely shut off - your CDMA phone working is working on Alltel or Verizon's network. That *is* roaming and you should be charged for that use

 

In way T-Mobile is in Montana
The only problem is that the network is setup for being a license saver network. This means they have towers but you can use them. T-mobile only has towers so they don't lose the licenses they have in Montana.
So T-Mobile could sell wireless service in many parts of MT, but they don't. :crying:

 

There are going to be many unhappy campers there once they get their bills and see the roaming charges... Seriousluy, though, Chinook's CDMA coverage wasn't as great as VZW and ALLTEL put together, so I don't know how within a few months they want their GSM network to be better than VZW/ALLTEL(they roam on each other). I also assume that there would be tons of problems, and wildrock proved that...I guess we'll see.

 

Blackfoot was a horrible joke when I had them. I don't think their GSM'll be any better, certainly not geographical coverage wise around here (yes I know they added coverage elsewhere in the state). Again - why pay Chinook $59.99 for 900 nationwide minutes (with 7pm nights included) that die at Columbia Falls when Alltel offers up 1000 for $56.99 (most comparable plan - 7pm nights addon) and they go up into West Glacier?

Sorry, unless ur only looking local service and get in on the promo 5000 offer, there's nothing to see here...

 

Today I stood in line at the local Chinook outlet. Tried to call all of their phone lines for two days, but nothing but busy signals and full voice mail boxes. Figured I'd ask why my text messaging wasn't working. There were about fifty people in line, many to get their text messaging working, too. Seems the csr's forgot to put in the text message service center number in many phones they handed out prior to switch, so as to not activate the messaging service. They could have just put a note on the website and/or on the store window (next to the note that listed the next 20 phone numbers for people who could pick up their phone that hour), and we all could have done it our selves. Couple menu selections and type in a phone number. But no, make everybody wait in line with all the other disgruntled customers. Yes, Chinook customer service has disintegrated into a hour long standing-in-line tedium. At least the several boxes of Krispy Creme doughnuts sitting there and coffee gave me something to do. :yumyum: Sugar and caffeine breeds an odd sort of revenge.

Don't know when those 5,000 new customers they are looking to attract are going to be able to squeeze in to get new service. Might as well put the tv commercials and radio ads on hold and save some bucks. Oh, and they've run out of most of the decent phones for their existing customers who didn't bother to get a phone pre-switch. They left the store with really pleasant looks on their faces. And they ran out of SIM cards. Were having some flown in from someplace. Sign here, pay that, here take your phone, your SIM should be here tomorrow...or the next day. We won't transfer any phonebooks till the end of next week, at the earliest, another sign says. And it was real fun watching the csr's trying to call the home office to verify some tidbit or ask a question. They must have had the same numbers I did, as they kept getting busy signals and intercepts on their speakerphone desk sets they use. How do you do business this way?

The free time let me think about making some ads for the competition. Nice video of a line of people stretched out on the sidewalk out side the local store, grumbling about their cell. Pan back, zoom in on Chinook sign above store, Caption says "Customer service, Chinook style, get ALLTEL". Telephone booth in front yard. Zoom in, cell hanging from chain, one bar blinking. Caption: Chinook thinks they've got you covered. Buy ALLTEL." Room full of people standing in line at the Chinook store. Somebody's cell rings. It is the same default cheap stub most people in the room got for nothing, piercing through the hubbub. Same pathetic high pitched default ring. Everybody grabs for their phone, and then begin to laugh. Except for the one dork who doen't get it, and holds his up and says "mine doesn't ring, what's so funny?" Get ALLTEL.

Oh, and I did tell quite a few people milling about the store about the free month service I got from the CSR manager I complained to for having to eat all the money I spent on my new Nokia 3 months before Launch. They really appreciated that and thanked me for the tip!

Haven't had much time to check out coverage. Other than the first day of total phone schizo, I seem to have better signal in my house, where the cdma signal was totally hit or miss. Have to get out in the country for a drive. Oh, and did I mention how much I love the free Motorola c139 they gave me? Didn't think so. I told a bunch of people in the store about the good deals I saw on eBay for unocked GSM phones that were cheaper than the 2 year contract prices on the wall. They liked that too. At least I got my free SIM when they had some.

OK, enough of this silliness... gotta make a call (maybe).

Jim

 

Thx for the update, it was bad here too. I went down the day after the switch to inquire about plans. I left - prolly 30 minute line of disgruntled customers out the door. But no different than the Alltel store here always is I should note... Went in Saturday, there was a line but not bad... but found out that unlike the "Internet Phone" in the ad, they have no data services yet

 

Prior to August 17th, when Chinook took on the Herculean project of switching over form CDMA to GSM, I really had my doubts. I really wasn't sure what was going to happen...if my newly issued GSM handset would work...or would I be hung out to dry. I have to tell you, I was completely psyched about getting GSM Digital in MONTANA. FINALLY--a technology on par w/ the rest of the world!! If you've moved to MT. from anywhere else and have had GSM b4, CMDA seemed like a "Model T" compared to GSM--a "Lexus."

August 17th came and went, and my handset did not work...however, I went to their website, and on the front page, were instructions to on resetting your handset..."power it off and on" to reset it...and what do you know--it WORKED! So obviously, before they flipped the switch, they must have encountered the glitch, and scrambled to get the word out b4 or at 3am.

When Cellular One switched to Alltel back in February, Alltel had the same shortcomings as far as customer service is concerned: inadequate and poorly-trained CSR's, a billing system that was completely frustrating, long lines, pissed-off customers, etc., etc.. It must lingering hangover inherent with most or all wireless companies.http://forums.wirelessadvisor.com/images/smilies/new/mad.gif

But how is my GSM service you ask? As I expected with GSM--crystal clear. I'm very happy with it, as was I when I had GSM outside of MT. I may be one of the lucky ones, but my coverage has improved and quality is 2nd to none. I work in a building that was built as a Civil Defense structure in the 1950's with 12" and 18" thick concrete walls, and I still get service!!

What's interesting (reading another blog site), is that no one in the wireless industry has ever attempted to completely switch over their customer base from CDMA to GSM--so glitches, backed up lines, and all of the other problems they are experiencing, I suspect, are to be expected and short-term (as with any new technology). The benefits of GSM now and down the road here in Montana will far-outweigh these problems. My hats off to these ballsy folks for "going where no man has gone before!!"
Tom

 

Ok,

This may be a dumb question, but now that Chinook has switched to GSM, I can no longer roam anywhere. Is this because they are the only GSM carrier in the state, and my pathetic Moto c139 doesn't know how to roam anywhere but GSM? The only thing it ever tells me is either it is connected, it is searching, or it has "emergency service only." Being new to GSM, are there any phones that have the capability to roam on say, analog or something else, as I used to be able to do with my cdma phone? Don't want to stand in line at Chinook for an hour to ask the question. I do have roaming on my plan.

Thanks, Jim

 

Oh, and one more thing. Here is an article that was in the Missoulian today about customer frustration.

Jim

Chinook Wireless users vent frustration
By TYLER CHRISTENSEN of the Missoulian

Some of the Chinook Wireless cell phone users at the company's Missoula office Monday were angry. Some were merely confused. All of them were having problems with their phones.

Effective Aug. 17, Chinook Wireless completed a network conversion that, for many customers, hasn't made for a smooth transition. [More]​

 

Wildrock is right about the c139...not my first choice as a replacement phone. very archaic and huge for a 'bar'. A 'clunker' if you will. However, the 5000" promo is pretty plush...very worthwhile once they get over the hiccups of the switchover.

On their website, www.chinookwireless.com, they are now advertising Spill-Ovr minutes...much like Roll Over minutes from Cingular...you keep the minutes you pay for. Not bad.
Tail.

 

Had to do the reboot just to get on the network. Then all the other problems started. Still having intermittent connection problems. 3 bars one minute, athen a few minutes without service, then three bars again. Seems like they are doing some rolling "reboots" or something. And I would love to have the 5,ooo minutes. But it's for the first 5 THOUSAND new customers. Current customers disallowed. Makes me want to complain loudly. Take care of the rest of us first!

Jim

Yay!~! I got my green bar

 

"my pathetic Moto c139 doesn't know how to roam anywhere but GSM? The only thing it ever tells me is either it is connected, it is searching, or it has "emergency service only." Being new to GSM, are there any phones that have the capability to roam on say, analog or something else, as I used to be able to do with my cdma phone? Don't want to stand in line at Chinook for an hour to ask the question. I do have roaming on my plan."

CDMA phones have broken 3-way calling and call waiting (my biggest frustration with CDMA) to retain analog compatibility. The back-end network must be the same. The GSM MAP is only compatible with GSM systems (well, you CAN build a CDMA network on it using what Qualcomm calls GSM1x but I don't know that it's ever been done comercially - tho China played with it).

GSM phones will only see the GSM network. Where your phone says "Emergency Only" - that means that it's seeing Alltel GSM but that it's not allowed to roam on it. Emergency is allowed due to FCC regs that 911 calls MUST be routed by any network capable.

And yes, Alltel has GSM. They don't sell it to their own customers. The coverage is VERY limited. The network is incredibly poorly built. It exists only because they were the ONLY game in town for GSM until now so they got $$$$$$$$ from roamers...

 

So the net effect for Chinook customers is a decrease in statewide coverage. When Chinook was telling us that they would increase coveage, it was limited to their network coverage. But with the loss of any meaningful roaming off network in Montana, it is a net loss in total coverage. Big minus. Even with cdma, and being able to roam on Vzw and whomever else, there were far too many dead spots. One can only hope that Chinook breaks the logjam for GSM in Montana and Alltel and Cingular et al. start building out. I guess the reverse is true in Montana, also, with Chinook shutting down its cdma network. All the other carriers will suffer by losing the coverage that only Chinook provided, as I know there isn't anywhere near 100% overlap between the various cdma players.

I wonder how Chinooks selling of towers to Global Towers will play out in this whole scenario? Sounds like Chinook is hoping that Global adds towers, But will they make them available to other gsm carriers? Not sure how all of this works.

Jim

 

Well, Chinook didn't get along very well with other CDMA carriers. The roaming rates they paid were insane, and neither Verizon nor Alltel phones will/would use a Chinook CDMA signal except for 911. They all weren't exactly friends. IIRC, that was part of the reason for the switch - so Chinook could get a fresh start getting roaming agreements.

Chinook only sold their towers - the physical poles. Not the cell sites on them. They now have to lease back space on these poles. But they don't have to lease the land they're on anymore, or maintain them, or anything like that.

Some companies own many or most of their towers - Alltel, T-Mobile, and Sprint spring to mind. Some lease space on tower company towers for the most part - Verizon and Cingular spring to mind. If you own your own towers, you'll always be top-of-the-tower (much better coverage radius than lower down), you get money by leasing space to other companies (sometimes 5 cell sites on a tower...), etc.

Chinook just wanted the money they'd get from the towers being sold and had no real interest (visible) in being in the tower management business.

 

Can you explain what you mean by broken 3-way calling and call waiting? I use both on my cdma phone without difficulty.

 

Yes, Chinook has put a 'spin' on the change in roaming coverage. Since they had difficulty in securing reasonable roaming agreements from CDMA carriers, they were assured roaming on GSM would be more economical...and it is. The net result is Chinook GSM phones should roam over more territory in the U.S, but not in MT! No analog, no CDMA.

So if your roaming involves getting on a plane and flying out of the state, you'll get more coverage (mostly on Cingular). Get off the Chinook network in MT, you have no hope other than maybe 911 on Alltel.

More cell sites? They are budgeted for 120 new & replacement sites. Once those are installed, that could be it. They may roam on Union in WY, and maybe not.

 

He means he has trouble with it when in analog.

 

No, call waiting and 3-way calling only partially work on CDMA.

Examples - you can't end one call on your end without ending the other (for CW, or 3-way), you can't take an incoming call waiting call and make it part of a 3-way.

So it only partially works...

 

On three way (on VZW CDMA), you can disconnect the third party only... like the landline version. So, in comparison, CDMA 3-way and landline 3-way are the same.

 

Oh, huh, I haven't had any trouble like that. But I don't use it a ton.

 

Had another talk with Chinook CS this afternoon. I've had some calls to me routed to an intercept, so I thought I'd let them know, and add it to their trouble tickets. See if it gets resolved soon. I guess the news with that is that I was able to call CS and get through to a person in 10 minutes. That's a bonus compared to the rest of the last week. CS rep seemed nice and well informed, so he's obviously had a good workout recently. I guess Chinook brought him in from Georgia, where he used to work for Cingular CS. Good to see them seeking out some good help.

So I also brought up the issue of poor roaming off network in MT with the move to GSM. I was told that the coverage I'm seeing right now isn't going to be indicative of the final situation. Give it a month or so. They still don't have all of their towers switched over and up and running. He said they are still adding in new towers every day, and working out the kinks. And will be installing new towers in areas previously unserved. He also mentioned that the Cingular towers aren't all available to Chinook yet, either, and that they will be adding in T-Mobile roaming in the state in the next few weeks. So it's obviously a work in progress. I guess time will tell. So maybe, with the sale of Chinook's towers to Global, they and Cingular and T-Mobile will all invest in improving coverage in MT. It would seem that everyone would stand to gain. It also seems like Chinook would be ripe for a takeover, after their conversion is complete, by either Cingular or T-Mobile in the future, if either wants to start selling GSM in MT.

I looked over Alltel and Vzw plans in case I bail out, and have to say that my current plan that I have is considerably cheaper than theirs. Also, there's that certain pleasure I take in being able to look over a far greater phone selection for GSM than was available via CDMA here. I like the concept of unlocked phones, SIMS, and multiple vendors (are those eBay deals really that good for unlocked GSM phones???) instead of phone prices tied to contracts--Chinook has said that they aren't implementing any restrictions on using unlocked. Thinking about the Nokia 6131. Get the kid a RAZR v3i. My computer geekiness (what I do professionally) is spilling over into mobiles now. I could have worse hobbies.

Jim

 

Ramcell here has lost it's oppertunity cingular is massively building out the network here, I would be surprised to see no 3g in the next 7 months.

 

"Chinook has said that they aren't implementing any restrictions on using unlocked."

Because they *can't* with SIM cards there's no way and if u wanna use GSM u gotta use SIMs. Why do you think no CDMA carriers except in communist China (where the gov mandates it) use R-UIMs?

 

For some reason I thought that it was possible to match a SIM to a phone, or to restrict a SIM to the phone that the carrier had sold you. Bear with me here. I'm trying to get up to speed about this all as fast as I can. I've yet to find a concise description of what all is contained on the SIM, or how you can access it. Being the closet hacker I am, I'd love to find a way get in the backdoor of these things and see what lurks (beyond syncing). Any ideas? Still prowling the rest of this forum and trawling for info.

Jim

 

You can restrict phones to only use your SIMs, but not SIMs to only work in your phones. This is the way GSM was meant to be to assure competition in the phone market (as you're seeing). CDMA could do it with RUIMs (heck, my old Blackfoot phone years ago had a RUIM slot that was disabled), the Chinese gov. requires it so it's done there.

While Chinook (and other) advertise the benefits of SIMs, they'd also dump them in a heartbeat if they could. Carriers HATE the things. Great for customers bad for carriers.

Basically it's just a smart card with storage memory (for contact list, etc) and an encryption system just like your TV access card or whatever for network access... That's simplified but still.

 

Telus Mobility has announced to have them, but I don't know if anything has happened yet.