Welcome to Our WirelessAdvisor Community!

You are viewing our forums as a GUEST. Please join us so you can post and view all the pictures.
Registration is easy, fast and FREE!

CDMA & GSM buildout maps???

Discussion in 'GENERAL Wireless Discussion' started by DaveyJ, Mar 31, 2003.

  1. Kenster

    Kenster Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    0
    So what have we learned? Europe can be fantastic with cellphone roaming on the GSM standard but painful to deal with the many electrical plug/outlet standards whereas North America has an array of incompatible cellphone technologies but a uniform electrical plug/outlet standard.

    Also, in the UK the drivers sit on the right-hand side of the car but doesn't the rest of Europe have the drivers sitting on the left-hand side as they do in N. America?

    Polonius, admit your secret -- you've got thousands invested in Qualcomm stock? LOL. [​IMG]
    Ok that's it I'm embracing GSM!!! [​IMG] Oh God Save Mme!!! [​IMG]

    Seriously though, a lot of people are making good points here. We're seeing various perspectives out there from the globe trotters who favor GSM from the USA-only crowd that favor the provider that can provide the best coverage locally and nationally.

    You're right -- it would be a dream design to have the entire world on a single standard. Standards are good but there is one interesting example where the TCP/IP protocol has allowed the Internet to proliferate worldwide at such an incredible rate. The interesting thing is that the TCP/IP protocol became the defacto standard, requiring no Gov't to mandate a standard. One interesting thing to consider is this: What if the US gov't mandated a single-standard networking protocol that must be used for computer communications and picked some awful protocol? It may have been difficult for our capitalistic market and society to swallow -- kinda depends on what the gov't is trying to get their hands on. But the Internet/TCP/IP adoption by just about everyone around the world, making it THE defacto networking protocol was truly amazing. Hats off. But this was clearly an example where uniformity didn't require Gov't meddling. Wireless communications is a whole different ballgame though....

    By the way, what's happening with 802.11a/b/g wireless standard? Is this an internationally adopted standard around the world for Wi-Fi (WLAN) networks? Geez, wouldn't that be nice!!!
     
  2. polonius

    polonius Junior Member
    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, all the continent is left-hand drives cars on the right side of the road -- Sweden by the way, being the last to switch (in 1967). And since we're sharing trivia, the US is the only country to have both (US virgin islands like most of the Caribbean drives on the left).

    North America actually does NOT have one single receptacle standard -- the RJ-11 is used universally throughout the region for phones, but Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean are a disastrous combination of power receptacles and voltages. In the same country, sometimes even the same city, you will find both 110 and 220, and they use at least three (us flat pin style, "european" round pin style, and three round pins a row format I've not seen anywhere else). WORST of all, the receptacle style does NOT necessarily provide an indication of voltage -- I've seen buildings with US flat pin style receptacles with 220v current!

    But both the TCP-IP and the WiFi protocols ARE good examples of how a standard gets adopted without government interference. The primary reason I have "issues" with Irwin Jacobs is that GSM WAS on its way to doing the same thing with wireless telecoms, when Jacobs realised this was going to wreck his cash machine. So he has spent the last twenty years buying political influence to throw a wrench in the works and slow down the adoption of GSM every chance he gets. There are for example (I can't remember them off-hand) at least two or three competing wireless networking protocols other than 802.11b. The difference is, none of them has a guy with deep-pockets and IPR behind them, so they are quickly and quietly being forgotten. And the hypocrisy of being "pro-market" whilst using good old-fashioned, top down government control wherever he can buy it to promote cdma is particularly irritating. It not -- as Jacobs likes to suggest -- that GSM is pro-top-down and cdma is pro-bottom up. Korea's government, for example chose cdma and they are now reaping the benefits, in the form of Samsung and other successful break in to the handset market. And although I think the USA would better off if they adopted the global standard GSM (just as I think they would be better off if they switched to 220v and round pin receptacles), the second best option would have been if they had mandated cdma. At least then, all six national operators would be on one standard and we could get some consolidation. I feel I need make the difference clear -- I am NOT pro-GSM per se, what I want is ONE standard everywhere, whatever that standard happens to be. But of course at this point, that basically means GSM/wCDMA.

    So far, thankfully, nobody seems to be trying to interfere with the 802.11 standard becoming universal. There have been a few hiccups -- as I'm sure you know, it is unlicensed spectrum everywhere. But in some jurisdictions until recently (France for example) UNLICENSED meant anyone could use it, but NO-ONE could charge for it, so whilst open networks were appearing, or coffee shops offered it for free to entice customers to buy coffee, you couldn't have any commercial development. But those have been changed and Paris may become the first city in the world to be completely covered by a WiFi network. And Stockholm may soon follow.
     
  3. polonius

    polonius Junior Member
    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, I just picked one operator at random - others may be slightly differnet, but probably not significantly (although TMO Uk is probably cheaper than Vodafone, and Comviq Sweden probably cheaper than Telia). But overall, the rates look similar -- the only countries we both included were Thailand, Germany and the USA -- and I think I gave you Orange Thailand rates. But I suspect they are exactly the same, as generally they use a standard contract. Does FET quote the rates in NT$ rather than local currency? I did give you the t-mobile deutscheland rate for germany, and yours is SLIGHTLY higher by today's exchange rate, but if they're guaranteeing NT$ rates (rather than offering them as a "guideline") the way that all the US operators are now, then they must have to put a cushion in there for currency risk.
     
  4. Kenster

    Kenster Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    0
    "North America actually does NOT have one single receptacle standard"

    Yeah you're right about Mexico -- Hotels and businesses I've been to use the 110V US standard and I thought that that was the norm. But then can we safely say that the US and Canada is pretty much standardized on one receptacle standard? Now there are of course exceptional cases...such as special 20/30AMP "twist" receptacles for things like UPS's, but I'm talking about the normal cases.

    Yes I had thought that the 802.11 standards were universal but wasn't quite sure. If that is the case then that would be great -- especially for the globe-trotters.

    In any case there's going to be some interesting developments out there such as India and Costa Rica, for example. It would be interesting to see how Reliance (new CDMA2000 network) will fare in India and I *believe* Costa Rica is still pondering what their 3G path will be. But of course, it means that CDG has been going for the kill -- LOL. They've been trying to influence Costa Rica to migrate to CDMA2000.

    p.s. Anyone who hasn't been to Costa Rica, check it out! It's a nice place to visit and people are nice. Although the US is big and powerful, I believe that they have to cut back on the arrogance of portraying themselves as such because I have also been to 10 or so different countries (mainly latin america) and I truly enjoyed the humbleness, tranquility, kindness and genuine friendliness that all of these people/countries offer.
     
  5. Bugwart

    Bugwart Bronze Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Pennsylvania
    My Phone:
    Samsung SCH i760,
    Wireless Provider(s):
    SKT, Verizon, China Mobile, EPlus
    I chose Vodafone because it had better coverage than One2One and about the same as O2, by my personal and limited experience in London last year. One2One was cheaper, but my phone would never hold a One2One signal for very long.
    Actually, FET quotes all rates in NT$, but states that they are a guide, since the actual rates are in local currency. This works against us right now in Euro Land after the recent run up of the Euro versus almost all other currencies.

    There is at least one competing wireless LAN standard. This is Apple's Airport. I was at Cal Poly University recently. They had Airport in the student union, but nothing that my 802.11b card could identify. However, I have not seen any commercial hot spots using Airport. Clearly 802.11a/b/g is the worldwide de facto wireless LAN standard.

    I need to go south and explore. I have lived in both Eurpope, Asia, and both coasts in the US, but the furthest south I have been in the Americas is Puerto Vallerta, Mexico.
     
  6. polonius

    polonius Junior Member
    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0
    Bugwart, I checked out FET's and some of those rates you gave were higher -- tmo deutscheland (I'm trying to remember now), I think was around NT$20, not 29.


    But more importantly -- Airport is definitey NOT a competing standard -- Airport is 802.11b, and the new Airport Extreme is 802.11g (54mb/sec). Some would even argue that it was apple - one of the pioneers in mass marketing wireless home networking -- who really helped 802.11b beat out all the competing technologies. There are a few others, a couple of which were used by some systems sold in fairly large volumes just a few years ago, but Airport is not one of them. But not being able to log on to a network is still fairly common -- sometimes intentional, as they are "secure" (right!), rather than public -- but more often just vendor incompatibility or configuration problems.
     
  7. polonius

    polonius Junior Member
    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0

    Costa Rica has chosen the 1800 band, PRESUMABLY because it wants to conform to IMT-2000 and keep the 1900 band reserved for 3G (and before Bugwart points it out, I hasten to add that this doesn't EXCLUDE that cdma 2000 3x COULD be used on those frequencies alongside UMTS or exclusively). But I do expect that they will resist pressures to allow IMT-2000 spectrum (including the so-called "PCS" band at 1900) to be used for 2/2,5G deployment. I have travelled quite a bit in Central America, but unfortunately my only Costa Rica experience has been changing planes in San Jose. I do hear great things about it though and hope to get there some time.

    The CDG is making big noises about Reliance telecom, but they consistently fail to mention the fact that this a fixed wireless service ONLY, using a CDMA link to provide "last-mile" connection as of course this is always the most expensive and riskiest part of network infrastructure investment. India's regulator has consistently resisted CDG's pressure tactics and GSM is mandated as the only standard licensed for MOBILE wireless.
     
  8. jmyeosf

    jmyeosf Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2003
    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    0
    Most parts of Asia is going CDMA
     
  9. Bugwart

    Bugwart Bronze Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Pennsylvania
    My Phone:
    Samsung SCH i760,
    Wireless Provider(s):
    SKT, Verizon, China Mobile, EPlus
    I would use slightly different wording, since my friend Polonius will be quick to point out that China is the world's largest GSM market and many East Asian countries have very good GSM coverage. I would say that CDMA is growing in East Asia.

    East Asia has a large variety of wireless technologies. Many of these are growing. One case in point would be Thailand which has AMPS, NMT, GSM, GPRS, CDMA One, CDMA 1xRTT, and is in the process of building a wCDMA system. Another is Japan with PHS, PDC, iMODE, CDMA One, CDMA 1xRTT, and wCDMA. All of the high end technologies are growing rapidly.
     
  10. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2002
    Messages:
    12,735
    Cell Tower Picture Gallery:
    50
    Likes Received:
    53
    Location:
    in front of my computer
    My Phone:
    iPhone SE
    Wireless Provider(s):
    T-Mobile
    So there's no GSM in Japan?
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
  11. polonius

    polonius Junior Member
    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0

    Nope -- PDC, PHS, cdma and UMTS. That's one of the achievements of the GSM association is getting everywhere but the US on the same frequency plan, and, by bring Japan and Korea in the UMTS world, closing the last two significant holes in the global coverage blanket. By this time next year, when the last few hold-outs launch GSM, Korea launches UMTS, and quadband GSM/UMTS handsets are available, you will be able to roam everywhere except possibly Haiti, Guatemala, Djibouti, Eritrea, Guyana, Nauru, Tuvalu, and Palau with a single handset. If Argentina recovers economically, they may even extend their GSM overlay to their current TDMA coverage on Antarctica by that time.

    (Actually the USA DID sign the IMT-2000 frequency accord, but at the US insistence, a clause inserted stated that stated that although these were the designated 3G frequencies, no timetable for making them available was committed to, leaving each jurisdiction to make these frequencies available and allocate to operators at their own speed)
     
  12. Bugwart

    Bugwart Bronze Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Pennsylvania
    My Phone:
    Samsung SCH i760,
    Wireless Provider(s):
    SKT, Verizon, China Mobile, EPlus
    Assuming of course that UMTS/GSM handsets hand off as hoped. And assuming that the bugs are worked out of wCDMA over the next 12 months.

    I still believe that an even better multimode phone would be GSM/wCDMA/CDMA2000. Once Korea gets wCDMA up and running, I would expect that Samsung will be producing such a phone. QCOM is building the chipsets that will make this possible.

    Once we have a tri-mode GSM/wCDMA/CDMA2000 phone, not only will we be able to roam worldwide, we will also be able to get a signal most places in the US, Korea, and Japan.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Cyber

    Cyber New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2003
    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    AT&T should have EDGE running in many of its major markets this year. And yes they do sell the 6200 which runs EDGE.

    Oh yeah ..and Beta was and is still a BETTER FORMAT. ask any A/V pro.

    Man this thread is huge
     
  14. Bugwart

    Bugwart Bronze Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Pennsylvania
    My Phone:
    Samsung SCH i760,
    Wireless Provider(s):
    SKT, Verizon, China Mobile, EPlus
    Yes, and I hope that you will pardon me if I do not hold my breath waiting for AT&T to actually get EDGE running with operating EDGE hansets in the hands of subscribers.
    [​IMG]

    The important word in your post is "should".
     
  15. polonius

    polonius Junior Member
    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0



    Is this a new post, or did you just copy, paste and search and replace "GSM" with "EDGE" from a 1992 posting? I'm getting a definite feeling of "deja vu" here.
     
  16. Bugwart

    Bugwart Bronze Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Pennsylvania
    My Phone:
    Samsung SCH i760,
    Wireless Provider(s):
    SKT, Verizon, China Mobile, EPlus
    No, I did the copy and paste from a 1999 post on GPRS, and a 2001 post on wCDMA.
    Why do you ask?

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  17. polonius

    polonius Junior Member
    Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    0

    I'm really tempted to offer you some sort of wager, but I have to think of how to precisely define the terms. But I'll only offer it if the loser agrees to something particularly humiliating, like work in Sprint customer care for a day.
     
  18. Bugwart

    Bugwart Bronze Senior Member
    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2003
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Eastern Pennsylvania
    My Phone:
    Samsung SCH i760,
    Wireless Provider(s):
    SKT, Verizon, China Mobile, EPlus
    If one spends a day in a place that does not exist, is return possible?
     

Share This Page

Copyright 1997-2022 Wireless Advisor™, LLC. All rights reserved. All registered and unregistered trademarks are the property of their respective holders.
WirelessAdvisor.com is not associated by ownership or membership with any cellular, PCS or wireless service provider companies and is not meant to be an endorsement of any company or service. Some links on these pages may be paid advertising or paid affiliate programs.

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice