BEWARE OF T MOBIL

T-Mobile has been fine for me. Sounds like I'm a lightweight based on everyone elses minutes.

 

It sounds like you need to do the following:

First, go through the detailed bill. You are going to have to do this. See if there are calls from when you know there would NEVER be calls - for instance, if you were Orthodox Jewish, there would never be calls from about 4pm Friday to about 6pm Saturday, due to Shabbat. If you were devout Christian, there would never be calls during the time you went to church. If you're a devout foodie (like me) there would never be calls during dinnertime.

Next, try and establish patterns. See if you find, for example, a 14-minute call that appears every three days. That sort of thing would indicate a software glitch. I should tell you that 1- and 2-minute calls are not going to be very useful in establishing patterns - you want to check for longer calls.

Finally, starting from the most recent, find people whose cell phones you called, call them from a landline so you don't eat your minutes, and ask them to check their bills. If you have an 11-minute call to 408-555-1234 at 10:08am and the person at 408-555-1234 doesn't have a corresponding 11- (or 10- or 12-minute) incoming call, there's something wrong.

Finally, stop calling customer care. Call the billing department, or start writing letters. In California, when you have a dispute with a utility that doesn't get resolved by the utility, you can file a complaint with the California Public Utilities Commission (http://www.cpuc.ca.gov). You will, however, have to send the disputed amount to the CPUC; if they find for you, the check is returned to you, and if they find against you, the check is cashed and the funds are distributed to the provider.

One final note... one of the joys of reading this forum is the mature level of discourse displayed by most of the posters. Regardless of relevant content, when I see personal attacks being traded, my first response is to skip to the next thread. This is not to say that I don't occasionally get emotional and make a personal attack (we all do at some point or another), but I try not to. Don't be goaded into a flame war. You are all above that.

 

OK Semper a few responses -

But you did agree to it, thats the whole point. If you don't like their plans work (not bumping you up to a different rate plan everytime you go over your minute amount), then you shouldn't have signed it.

You made your bed, now you have to sleep in it.

Again, you're talking but nothing is coming out of your mouth. 'irregularity' = what? it either means (1) their billing is wrong, (2) your wife talked a lot more that month then previous months. Both are possible, there's a first time for everything. The simple solution on your part would be to prove that it was the first case. So far, that hasn't happened. If you can't prove that its wrong, repeatedly mentioning 'irregularity' isn't going to cut it.

No I don't have any interest in T-mobile (except being a happy customer), but you're right, I do think it is a ridiculous charge. I think its kind of ridiculous to talk on a phone for 2000 minutes a month much less something as high as 4500. But either way you still are responsible for every minute that she actually talked, how exorbinant the bill gets doesn't resolve you from your responsibility.

You say you dont think anyone would disagree, but yet here we are, almost every single person disagreeing with your argument. Coincidence?

Again, my point is that you need to convince T-mobile that they should be feeling nice and cut you a HUGE break. You're tied into a contract, and knowing your wife's habits, it looks like they're going to make some more money off of you guys whether they cut you a break or not. They might get more money out of you in the long run if they do it your way, but maybe thats not something they're interested in finding out? Maybe they're concerned with the possibility that you could convince them to drop $600 off your bill this month, and then you turn around and cancel your service next month, paying only a $200 cancellation fee. Again, are they feeling generous? [Personally, it doesn't sound like you'll be a very satisfied customer no matter how nice they are to you, so what is their real impetus to give you a break and lose all that income?]



They're legally in the clear right now, so unless you prove them wrong, its your job to beg/coax/kiss their ___ enough into cutting you some kind of deal. If you're not willing to do that, then you're up sh!t creek, and ranting on the internet and pulling of this 'entitlement' attitude isn't going to make the bill get any smaller. The questions/criticisms people here are giving you are going to be the exact same questions you have to face when you talk to the BBB or the local news. If you can't face the music, dont go to the party!



ps - my analogies rule!

 

Much of what Semper has said is that TMobile is wrong and if any of us don't think they are wrong, then we must have some hand/stake/care/investments in TM.

Not once has he come back and told us of any research that he or his wife have done to dispute the bill; those irregularities he speaks of; other than an unusal amount of minutes this month than previous months, he has still not shown TMobile where they have gone wrong.

To think that they should just switch him to a better plan that would incorporate more minutes is not going to happen unless he ASKED them to do so. No company looks at the minutes you use and says to themselves, "hey, let's call so & so and give them a new plan with more minutes!"

Semper is more than willing for TM to give him so kind of trade off; but at what cost?

Semper prove your case! Document those alleged irregularities instead of ranting and raving about the amount you think is wrong. Prove them to be wrong!

I agree with ZaphodB, stop calling customer care; in all this time you should have been calling the billing department; all you are doing is making your situation worse by harrassing CS.

 

Honestly, if you talked to *5* agents the way you are talking in this forum, no wonder they brushed you off...

 

I think that you're just being plain rude...

 

This is getting pretty crazy. Let's cut to the chase: Examine your phone bill carefully. If you really used 4500 minutes that month, which is roughly 2.5 hours every single day (wow!), then T-Mobile (notice the correct spelling) has every right to charge you for the service it provided, per the contract you agreed to.

if call quality wasn't satisfactory, you have a right to request credit for the wasted minutes.

It is up to you to monitor your usage, not the company. You agreed to a specific number of minutes, after which you would be charge a per minute rate. That's how all cell providers work.

That the company is willing to compromise at all is great. Pay the piper and pay more attention to your usage in the future.

Peace,
Gene Steinberg

 

semper, in another thread not quoted, your reply to me, you said it was legal for T-M to charge the fees they were charging. In this thread above, you ask is it "right" to charge 800 if the next higher plan is only 100? The terms of your contract are clear. you talk about swindling and loopholes. There aren't any loopholes. The overage charge is clearly stated. Swindling? Tricking? I doubt it. They've done nothing illegal, given what you've stated. You think it is wrong that T-Mobile is trying to hold you to the terms of the contract. It's not wrong. It is their right. If they choose to give you a one-time credit, it is something they are not required to do. I find it surpirsing that you or your wife did not realize that the phone usage was going to be so high. Maybe not the specifics, but just a general feeling of "wow, I've been on this phone a lot this month!"

 

i'll tell you what i think is BS, all of you people attacking this guy for making his comments and then insulting him. isn't that what this forum is for, people getting sh*t off there chest. i will not ever go with tmobil from what this guy says. i have been with verizon for over 6 years, and i would leave them if i found better phones and plans from someone else. i'm not happy that tmobil and att t720 users can do alot more than i can on my phone like using it as a camera, downloading ringtones and games from other people's sites other than get it now. i'm not insulting anyone nor making fun of anyone, but i am making a comment, maybe when some of you kids get out of school you should learn the same.

 

the biggest BS about digiphone planes are that when i buy gas, i get to use all that i pay for, but it is a guessing game with your digiphone. i know how to check my minutes and keep track of them. i have 1000 min anytime, 1000 night and weekends, free mobile to mobile, free first incoming min, free long distance. and i have had this plane for over 4 years. it was promotional, and i never changed it because for $55.00 a month you can't get a good plan like that. but i never come close to my anytime nor my weekend minutes. the reason i have this plan is because i went over my original plans minutes and verizon refunded me and changed my plan to compensate for my overage. i've been with them ever since and never had 1 problem with customer service. i work with customers too, and know how i like to be talked to. but i think your bill should be based on a new system of charging. one that is based on between minutes. rather then on 1 set time. like instead of 300 anytime minutes, it should be between 300 to 400 anytime minutes. and if i go over, it is atuomatically upgraded to the next highest between minutes plan. that way i atleast get more for what i pay for. thank you for your time

 

How many cellular companies sit there monitoring your minutes for you?

They are not going to sit there and say hey, we'll have to change him/her to the next available plan because he/she went over this month.

For what I have gathered from all that Semper has vented about, for the next plan up, that would cost about $100 and give him more minutes. Common sense would say get that plan and not run the risk of going over minutes and TMobile, in his opinion, should do that for him.

In real life, it doesnt happen just like that. If he wants a higher plan with more minutes it would be his responsibility and not TM, to make the call and change the plan. In the meantime, there is an overage that has been used and until he can show proof that those charges are wrong, then pay is what he is going to have to do.

If mobile companies upgraded customers to the next pricing plan everytime they went over their minutes; just to save the customer a few dollars, who would be loosing money?

 

again, how did you get blindsided? its in the contract, clearly...

there is no blindsiding going on... you walked right into that punch with your eyes open.


And again, you're making excuses for people not falling in line with your view, first we're T-mobile agents, now we're people who need to get a life.... OR maybe we're just lots of normal people who think you're being unreasonable.


BY THE WAY... you have failed to mention (again) whether the bill is actually incorrect.

 

Well, having watched on the sidelines, I finally can't resist jumping into this fun-fest.

The customers, and they would be happy about it.

CM

 

CommuteMan, I am sure Semper will pat you on the back....hell, even kiss your feet after what you posted.
The only people that know why TMobile didnt go along with the bargain Semper wanted is, Semper, his wife (maybe) and TMobile.
All cell companies are going to gain/loose people for whatever reason.
Some of us are happy with our providers and some of us aren't, that is the nature of the business.
I have seen many threads were people have been advised to switch if they are that unhappy.
The same would apply if I werent happy with whom I am with; I would have to look into switching.....but I am curious to know this:

How long do you have to be a customer to be considered a loyal customer?

 

it'd be nice if my cell phone company came over and tucked me in bed every night too, that'd make me stay their customer forever!

who's version of 'in real life' are we living in? In today's economy companies are slashing services left and right to stay profitable. They're dumping human operators and automating as much as possible, they're giving you less and expecting more. Companies that do this have happy customers, but they don't necessarily stay in business. How often do you think a company can afford to write off hundreds of dollars of income and not lose $$$ per customer? There's a lot of things they could do to be nicer, but they don't all make financial sense and there has to be a practical limit. (I mean consider the fact that they do give you detailed billing and a running minutes summary IF you actually check)

The Amazon analogy is flawed in that there's a difference between suggesting a product someone MIGHT want based on previous purchases, and retroactively changing the product someone DID purchase.

Basically the 'Semper model' of cell-phone business states that we should be able to talk as much as we want, regardless of what contract we signed up for and then expect the company to automatically charge us for the cheapest contract we actually used.

Sure it sounds great. but thats not what they do. My point (and I think scandelex's) was that if thats not what you signed up for, don't be pissed off that you're not getting it. No where on the contract does it say you should get it, so the 'entitlement' defense doesn't hold water...

damn, here i could have been paying $19.99 a month for all those months!

 

Interesting question. I take it you're referring to the fact that Semper's wife was only a T-Mobile customer for 5-6 months? I think you misread his original post, since he referred to being a Voicestream customer for some unspecified time before that.

BTW, I'm not defending him -- I have no idea how you rack up that kind of usage. I'm just pointing out that T-Mobile's behavior is moronic and short-sighted. Bad CS is ALWAYS inexcusable, and they are shooting themselves in the foot by alienating a potentially profitable customer.

More interesting question: At what point is T-Mobile (or any company) better off without the customer?

The current best practice is to think of you as a valuable customer only if you are profitable. In other words, once the margin on doing business with you has covered the acquisition cost, then it is worth keeping you happy. It's FAR cheaper to keep an existing customer happy than acquire a new one.

Many businesses fail to recognise that there are many customers that are not profitable, will never be profitable, and they should not expend energy to keep them. For example, if you take out the cheapest plan, get a free phone, never upgrade, but are always calling in to CS, then you are costing the company money. Why should they treat you as "loyal"? It's not a question or right or wrong; it's a simple business decision.

On the other hand, someone who normally uses 2000+ minutes per month is clearly a customer with a very high potential life-time value. If T-Mobile had worked PROACTIVELY with this customer to optimize his experience, then this could be a very profitable relationship for both of them.

The real reason that companies don't act this way is their organizational structure -- the folks running CS are not the same folks looking at customer acquisition and turnover rates. One part of the company is desperately trying to drive down customer turnover, the other part couldn't care less. CS management is not usually compensated on long-term customer value, although more and more companies are starting to get it.

CM

 

The version of real-life I'm living in is the one in which businesses (like the one I work for) ONLY survive if they interact profitably with customers. Any modern business text will tell you that it is more profitable to keep customers happy. Customer LTV (life-time value) has become the most important measure of a customer's importance.

If you're paying attention, you'll notice that businesses are slashing service to the least profitable customers, and improving it for the most profitable.

It's not a question of "writing off hundreds of $$", it's a question of making money by keeping customers.

It costs T-Mobile hundreds of $$ to get a customer
They're losing money until their operating margin exceeds those $$.
After that point, they have a steady revenue stream, if the customer is profitable and HAPPY.

The Amazon analogy is perfectly correct. To date, the cell phone companies have done a very poor job of proactively marketing to their customers based on their behavior. Given that T-Mobile already has the systems in place to track minutes, they are leaving lots of money on the table by NOT contacting customers to RECOMMEND changes to their plans based on usage.

Here's a bizarre thought: It would be good business strategy for your wireless provider to contact you and recommend a CHEAPER plan if it better suits your needs. Why? If you're paying too much, and not using the service, then you could well switch to another provider. If they help you find the optimum plan, then they are building a long-term relationship with you that will build loyalty, decrease the probability you wil defect, and ultimately improve the margin on your business.

CM

 

oooh, semper has made a new friend, isn't that nice. great.


But ignoring semper because despite his patting himself on the back, he doesn't seem to realize that people viewing this thread are reading about 90 posts condeming his point of view (and like two people actually agreeing with him).... back to commuteman, since its obvious thats where the meat of this thread is moving (about customer service/loyalty) -

Does customer loyalty as seen in other markets really exist in the wireless market? The market as it exists today is for the majority of consumers to swap back and forth between companies with the wind. All the plans are becoming interchangable, the services are practically interchangeable (what is the difference between cingular and t-mobile quality wise now?) - this is one of the main factors why they're forcing you to stay in longer and longer contracts... (cause thats the only way they can keep people from leaving!)

Customer loyalty is very nebulus. It can disappear with one sale on a sexy new phone at Circuity City.... They could forgive $700 from Semper, make $60 more a month from him for 6 months, then poof he could just as easily be gone despite their generosity. At some point the $400+ they're going to blow on being nice to a semper and dealing with potential future complaints, etc would be better spent on attacting a new customer (if we use the "$300-$400 to attract a new customer" fee, which I think is probably over inflated...)

My point is that there's a practical limit on how nice they will be to someone. They can't bend over backwards at your every whim. At some point even someone who talks as much as a Mrs. Semper becomes a loss.

I guess the key difference in our points of view is where we see that limit to be. I think $800 and his attitude ('entitlement') are definitely on the wrong side of that equation...


And about the 'amazon analogy' - its kind of a chicken and egg thing, if everyone was doing that, yes, t-mobile would presumably lose customers by not doing the same, but no wireless company does this, because they see it as a way to make large amounts of $$$ off of human nature. And they know that thats the rules of the game so no matter what they can take advantage of it. Don't like it? gee, all the companies are the same! Yes its a bit cold-hearted, but thats the nature of the industry. Some accountant has probably figured out the costs associated with the two versions of billing and figured out that its making them more money based on projected incomes, projected customer loss rate and projected customer life. And as long as the wireless market remains an oligopoly, those equations aren't likely to change.


This can change of course a little public pressure would help... at some point Chrystler figured out that if they stopped fighting airbags like they had been doing for decades and instead embraced them, there'd be a windfall...

 

i think the whole point behind this post is that they are not losing money if they simply charge him for the next plan up. the reason the bill is so high is because of going over his minutes. but if you think about it, if they have a plan with more minutes and less $$$ how are they losing money? this guy will tell everyone he knows about his experience and they will take that into consideration when they see a tmobil booth at walmart. think of it as when you go to mcdonalds and you order a large fry, a big mac and a large drink. well if you had paid attention to the price of each item, it cost more for these items seperately than in a combo. is it up to the customer to let the cashier know he wanted the number 6 combo for a cheaper price then to tell him all he wanted and the cashier charge the higher price for each item seperate? then the cashier says " well i can't give it to you for the cheaper price because you didn't pay enough attention when you ordered." maybe if they did change your plan when needed without having to tell you (and with computers, they can. they send a letter when my bill is late!!!) THEY ARE NOT LOOSING MONEY if you guys don't agree with this, you must be a cashier at mcdonalds! some of you are acting like the kids that work at mcdonalds!!! like i said in my earlier post, verizon is my wireless provider for as long as they are in business. when they changed my plan for me to match the minutes i had used, i stayed with them. if what happened to this guy happened to me, i would have taken my business somewhere else. and with a $250 a month account with the 5 phones i have for MY business. they have made ALOT more then what they would have made off me by the end of my contract that was still good for another year. they will stay in business because i brag about their service to MY customers every chance i get. in the past 4 years i know for a fact that in just my customers, i have gained verizon 100 or more customers who are still to this day (my customers who i see frequently) happy with verizons customer service. most people i talk to think i work for verizon, but i tell them "if you have a good service then promote them. if you have a bad experience, tell the world" i know that for every happy customer i have they will tell 1 friend...and so on. but for every unhappy customer, they will tell 10 people. well 10 years in business, and i'm still growing every year, and it is not because i charge people too much!! and with other customer like me that are with verizon, happy trails to tmobile.... and you do know that this is in the hot topics area which is causing alot of people to read this thread. and i'll tell you this, everyone is taking this to heart, but most people who do agree with me and him.... are not as childish as to fight with you people who just will NOT shut up and keep going off about " it's your fault, it's your fault" wait till it happens to you. unless your with verizon and than this wouldn't!!!!!!!!!!!!!