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Best on the move GSM,CDMA

Discussion in 'GENERAL Wireless Discussion' started by Jerro, Aug 14, 2005.

  1. viewfly

    viewfly Mobile RF Advisor
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    :rolleyes: Just that your original question struck me at first a bit unclear. Differences between driving, boating and in a plane?

    I first imagined driving a car around small racetrack (all within range of the same tower)at the fastest speed possible. Or the same with a boat. I assumed that your question was about cell to cell tower handoffs and not how fast one is moving, less you are travelling really fast :D
     
  2. Jerro

    Jerro Bronze Senior Member
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    Yes moving, (flying in a plane, also to include General aviation, and Heliocopters,or boating (moving) or driving (moving). Any substantial movement in distance, near or far within a system.

    Although, handoffs are a primary issue when moving so is the issue of holding a call and the fidelity of a call within a cell. So, without restriction to technical specificity, I ask; which technology, in the opinion of USERS, seems to simply work better when moving (traveling). Secondarily; I'm asking the user to input their own experiences using each technology while in motion, fast, slow within a cell,or moving away, and / or handing off. No restricted to either.

    So, your example of driving around a stationary point would be good input as would moving in a line through several cells.
     
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  3. Andy

    Andy Diamond Senior Member
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    For General Aviation there's a few things to consider:
    A GSM phone will give you that GSM type sound/interference with your radio and also play games with your GPS(it has happened to me), but CDMA does NOT. CDMA's problem, flying high above a city, would be the phone seeing too many PN offsets and not knowing which one to use when you try to initiate a call so call connect times might be long.
     
  4. Jerro

    Jerro Bronze Senior Member
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    Interesting about the GSM and the GPS , wonder if the VOR receivers are effected given the frequency and type of modulation. I have to try both cdma and gsm, with the transponder powering up,to see what happens to the phone.

    As you mentioned contacting many cell towers is an issue, but in GA say at 1500 feet for example it can't be much worst than someone at the window of a skyscraper on a short call. But of course the skyscraper is stationary, hopefully! So can we assume moving high and fast will get you dropped?
     
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  5. Andy

    Andy Diamond Senior Member
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    No, moving high and fast on CDMA doesn't mean you will get dropped. I've held calls flying over urban areas on CDMA without a problem, but like I said, connecting might sometimes create a problem if you're seeing too many PN offsets. My Moto does much better in those situations than my old LG ;)
    GSM never affected my VOR from what I remember, the only thing it affected was my radio with that GSM type sound even once in a while when the phone was not in use, and it sometimes messed with my GPS. CDMA never did any of that. The only CDMA problem I sometimes have is connecting the call.
     
  6. Jerro

    Jerro Bronze Senior Member
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    Recently the most significant thing that I noticed, is that my GSM friends seem to drop calls more than CDMA when driving.

    But when stationary, no real difference except more background noise including other conversations in the same otherwise quite room can be heard more on GSM phones. With CDMA the secondary conversations and other background is heard less. My experiences.
     
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  7. Andy

    Andy Diamond Senior Member
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    YOur experience with GSM dropping more calls than CDMA in your area when driving has nothing to do with the technology, but rather with how the networks are set up. That specific GSM network in your area has some things it seeds to straighten out- whether the dropping of calls happens because of capacity issues or because of coverage.

    And your background noise observations are correct, that's the CDMA vs. GSM difference.
     
  8. Jerro

    Jerro Bronze Senior Member
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    Yes, I do believe that it has a lot to do with the local network, which was the former Comcast and more recently ATT Philadelphia system. Although it would be interesting to explore the handoff situation in general, I have heard both (GSM, CDMA) arguments, some very vigorous as was the background issue.
     
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  9. moogle10000

    moogle10000 New Member

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    Personally I've had really good luck with CDMA -- as long as I'm in a well covered area -- I drove to the airport the other day (in Phoenix - about a 30 mile drive for me...) while talking to a friend of mine -- No breakups or distortion at all.

    Yeah, the whole GSM speaker/radio thing really sucks -- One reason CDMA is better lol...

    I would imagine that the GSM radio bug would interfere most with VOR/COM radios... it may also interfere with 121.5/406mhz ... Which would really suck if your ELT couldn't transmit because of interference (or if the FSS couldn't do a DF steer - though those aren't really done too much anymore thanks to GPS.)
     
  10. Jerro

    Jerro Bronze Senior Member
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    I never noticed any interference, yet I don't use the cell aloft, only on the ground. I did get knocked off a call, on the ground running up. I can't imagine any substantial interference with and ELT on either freq.

    I have had long CDMA calls in the car too, they do tend to hang on. However, this is a hilly area so we give the carries some slack there too.
     
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  11. COtech

    COtech Bronze Senior Member
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    It sounds like you have discovered what my avionics textbook calls "propeller modulation". It was something to watch out for on NAV radios, and could be altered (and confirmed) by varying the RPM of metal props. It's a mechanical interence, rather than electronic or electrical.

    Think about how old fighter aircraft have body mounted machine guns, firing through the propeller, without shooting off the prop tips. The trigger has to be inhibbited as a prop blade passes in front of the muzzle. At 1500 RPM with a two bladed prop, a tip goes by over the engine cover 50 times a second.

    The GSM handset is transmitting 217 times per second, and it's not synced to the prop at all. Sometimes all's clear, sometimes a pulse is blocked, and sometimes pulses are reflected through divergent multiple paths (partially cancelling at the cell site antenna for a weaker signal). lt's not surprising you had a call drop; and the further the handset's antenna is from the prop, the smaller this effect will be. (A rear seat passenger would have a better chance of completing a call in progress.) Loss of pulses degrades the connection.

    Makes sense?

    COtech
     
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  12. Jerro

    Jerro Bronze Senior Member
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    Interesting, and good information, however my cut off was on CDMA and with a twin. Could have been anything, the cell site is about a mile away in the clear and full signal at the airport. I think it was the transponder that knocked the call off or someone elses. When you mentioned, props speeds, avionics etc. it made me think fondly for a moment, "gee this is September 2005,has it really been 31 years since I started flying"?
    1974 was a good year and spread spectrum was in the realm of the military,my DME had vacuum tubes; whats a personal computer. Gee!

    Given that, it was CDMA, what is your thought?
     
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  13. COtech

    COtech Bronze Senior Member
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    Yes, could have been anything. Next time have a call going, turn on XPONDER first before engines, and see. Transponders receive on 1030 and reply on 1090 MHz, so that doesn't seem close to either cellular or PCS bands.

    The prop modulation would still put holes in CDMA's continuous bitstream, by blocking and reflecting. More than could be error corrected, so the call drops.

    I started flying myself then too, in 1975 through about early 1980. Made PP-SEL, about 150 hours, started instrument instruction. I WANT a Grummen American Tiger AA-5B (will accept Cheetah AA-5A)--fastest, cleanest non-complex aircraft made, IMO (have 15 hours in it). In 1980 I married and started buying a house. Still married and nearly paid for! Youngest child is a college senior, likely going on to phamacy school. I will resume flight, at least at the ultralight level, soon. No telling what it will take to get a duplicate Airman's certificate in this age from our FAA.

    I did get my first computer in 1978, rationalizing that electricity was cheaper than AVgas. 1974, we were looking at the prices and datasheets of the Intel 8080A chipset, or the Motorola 6800 set, or the MOS Technology 6502 family, and saying "this is neat stuff!".

    COtech
     
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  14. Jerro

    Jerro Bronze Senior Member
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    Pham. school, lucky you, at least they will be making a living relatively soon; I' LL be buying med. next year. Oh well.

    Only thing about the Cheetah, tiger etc. is the nose wheel steering. Sure its somewhat slower but a nice Archer or even Warrior at least has a steerable nose wheel and speed mods are available.

    Anyway I'LL try your suggestion.

    Still, getting back to ground level; when driving do you notice any more dropped calls or other issues in either CDMA or GSM ?
     
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