Balloons in addition to Towers--What Next?

In theory it sounds good. I have to think about the safety of such a program. Hydrogen balloons. Anyone remember the Hindenburg? Also having the electronics eject and parachute to earth. What if this happens over a populated area? What if the parachute fails and this thing falls from the sky and kills someone? What if it lands in the middle of a busy interstate and people get in an accident trying to dodge it in the road? If someone makes a 911 call (GSM network) on one of these floating towers how can their location be triangulated if the "tower" is always moving? The release of the electronics package should be manually controlled, and only done where the likelihood of it landing in a highway or populated area is remote.

-Jay

 

I think even taking in consideration the likelyhood of those events and its associated expenses (lawsuits, repairs, compensation, etc.) it seems it is still cheaper to run the ballons rather than install a terrestrial network.

However, you're right about the E-911 system. It would be virtually useless.

I think running unmanned blimps with controlled landing and take off will be better but a little more expensive.

 

This is very interesting. Why not just use a satellite phone in these areas?

 

I have a lot of doubts about the workability of this idea, but, as a former resident of North Dakota I can tell you the odds of the electronics doing much damage when released are slim to none up there. North Dakota has 9 people per square mile...literally. Ok, I think it's actually 9.3 to be exact. Bismarck, Fargo, Grand Forks and Minot have about a half of the whole population of the state. Dickenson and Williston in the west are the only other "major" population centers. Just don't let the release happen over those areas and there's nothing left to hit. And as far as "busy" interstate routes...I-94 is the only east/west interstate, so not much problem there either. Seriously, there are no people up there.

If one consults the coverage maps of the major carriers, you start wondering who they are actually trying to reach with this whole balloon idea. Most of the major carriers cover the major population centers and I-94 and the north/south (I think I-29) between Fargo and Grand Forks. Seems like a lot of money, even if it is cheaper than towers, to reach a few farmers here and there.

 

This did sound good till hearing about the ballons not lasting long & having to jettison the pod, which could be a problem especially as Steve said in populated area's.
I think the unmanned blimps would be a better idea and I can't remember the name of the company that actually started testing using these blimps for this purpose, which in the long run seems safer & makes more sense.
I guess we will see what happens in the near future and how/if they could come up with some type of E 9-1-1 system to comply with the FCC regulations.

 

I live in ND and am interested in watching this project. I want to see how they technically can make this work. The battery power needed to make two uplinks and two downlinks is what I see as an issue. As far as coverage in ND, yes there are places that are poor but considering our population density I think we have pretty fair coverage. Furthermore, 2006 is on track for one of the biggest buildouts that we have seen in rural areas of ND. Between Alltel and Verizon Wireless there may be close to 50 new sites.

Also, as for the balloons...the National Weather Service has been using them for years. Do not ever recall of hearing of an incident with them.

 

That's true, but I don't think they Jettison anything off of them before the ballon bursts, like they are talking about in the article.

 

Actuallly, when a weather balloon does fianlly make its way back to the ground there is a small box of equipment that is attached to them. I have found them in the farm fields on ND before. They are a small device that explains what it is and to please drop it in any USPS post office box. They weight only 1-2 pounds.

As for the comment about using sat phones in remote areas: many oil and energy companies out here use them. Pipelines are mandated to have redundant communications between their control centers and the people in the field. Generally, most pipeline workers have a cell phone, 2-way radio and a sat phone in their trucks.

 

I'm confused.....How long would a balloon last? Can they predict when one is going to fail and have another in its place just prior too? Or does your cell service come and go based on whether the balloon is up or down? Whoops...can't call today the balloon is down.....

 

You raise a good point. How exactly do these balloons uplink back to the rest of the network? Via satellite or some repeater back to the ground?

 

As another former ND resident, Toddman answers the questions pretty well.

Me, I think Mr Ed is trying to make his company more viable and keep costs low, by not using other carriers towers where he doesn't have to. I thought I read in our paper today that the batteries last about 2 months. I like the idea - re-usable, rather than a tower that messes up the aesthetics of the landscape, you don't have safety issues that come with building & maintaining a tower - the lights to warn air traffic, etc.. And when technology changes (CMDA to GSM), you change the equipment going up in the balloon all at once, rather than a tower at a time.

I'm a fan of Ed Schaffer - he's a car guy. What more can you say? They can BS with the best of them, but they really do think out of the box.

 

Ok these balloons are only for rural areas not for Metros.

These Balloons are used as repeaters not cell sites.

The FCC law last I knew for a wireless signal with and Cellular, PCS cannot go no more than 25 miles from base station. This does include repeaters. So even if this does work the FCC would have to change the law.

If This does work T-Mobile could have a network across the country in no time. :browani:

 

I understand they can't be used for urban metros. There's just no way to carry that much capacity needed for a metro area in a balloon. Even terrestrial cell sites have to cut their range to reuse spectrum because capacity is limited. So there's no way to do a metro area with balloons due to the massive capacity needed, plus the abundance of concrete will always block the signal indoors.

So if these balloons are repeaters and not the actual cell sites, where will the actual cell sites be? Why does the article presents these balloons as a replacement for terrestrial cell sites?

Another problem I see with these balloons is the GSM timing advance limits the distance from the base station to 22 miles. These balloons will be at about that altitude. This means your mobile will be at just over 20 miles away from the balloon if you are standing vertically under the balloon. In other words, the balloon is passing above you. However, most of the times you will not be vertically under the balloon, which means your straight distance to the balloon will likely exceed the GSM limit of 22 miles because your path to the balloon will be at an angle. Given these facts, I fail to see how these plans will come to reality.

 

Extend America, The carrier that is proposing this is IDEN.

 

website does not mention wireless.

 

I see that, at least not wireless voice. Not sure how it worked out, but Extend America was an IDEN carrier that was some type of an affiliate with Nextel or Nextel Partners. I do belive they sold off the IDEN network to Nextel or Nextel Partners.

 

There are many different SMR providers out there. Most just do push to talk services. I know in Des Moines of 3 SMR providers Nextel Partners, The Beeper People, Illowa Communications. Only Nextel does telephone service the other 2 will refer you to nextel if you need that.

Extend America could just be doing push to talk right now or starting over with a new iDEN telphone network.

 

But isn't Nextel transitioning away from iDen, to eventually operate a CDMA PTT network? If Nextel abandons iDen, iDen's future in the US seems quite bleak.

-Jay

 

But if Extend America can keep iDen cheap & accessible for the rural areas of NoDak - it would be feasible, wouldn't it?

Will/Do they make phones to do IDEN as well as GSM/CDMA?

 

So each of these balloons are supposed to cover huge rural areas. Even in rural areas, there are highways and roads, and people do use their phones. So if one of these balloons covers a radius of, say, over 100 miles, wouldn't there be quite a bit of capacity, even if it's rural? What about when the balloon floats over a 'metro' area...wouldn't this cause problems?

 

they should try this in Utah.

 

To quote Verizon, "It's the network"

 

you must recall - even a populated area in ND is quite sparse.

Fargo is the biggest city - about 200K - last I knew. The metro area - about 300K. And they're going to have towers that supplement.

 

Utah has plenty of Trees
so they can just tie these Balloons to the trees.
Yup, its the VZW Network of people w/ Balloons.

 

There are no metro areas in North Dakota. So don't worry about it. The idea is that in more populated areas they will have terrestrial sites that will pick up the slack and compensate for capacity.

 

Dude - I just said that.

Will they not believe me - I have to be a knowledgable super mod?

 

I didn't mean something as large as a metro area, Like DC or NY, but certainly there are cities & towns somewhere in the state, and the electronics should not be released anywhere near those types of areas.

-Jay

 

well, i for one dont think it will work, very well. they should do satilite. my satilite radio works verry well in the boonies.

 

The attachment includes a Picture/cut off article from the recent issue of RCR wireless News Concerning the balloon towers.