Looks like AT&T will be "keeping up with the Jones's...er...Verizon" and launch their LTE network this summer. Altho, it looks like they may have marketing problems since they already branded their 3G network as 4G, ha-ha. Looks like their marketing guys kind of dug a hole for themselves there, ha-ha ...as a technical guy, I have to point out that HSPA+ is 3.75G and LTE is 3.9G. There are no LTE Advanced networks live right now, and that's what would be technically speaking "real 4G" according to the ITU (the standards group who decides this). AT&T's new 4G network will launch soon in 5 cities - May. 25, 2011
15 markets by the end of the year? Compared to vzw with 175 markets by the end of the year? That is pitiful AT&T. And didn't ITU call wimax and lte 4g back in december?
Why would they have marketing problems? It seems that since T-Mobile branded their HSPA+ as 4G, the real 4G is now called 4G LTE. So just like Verizon is doing, AT&T can also market their real 4G as "4G LTE".
Since AT&T's HSPA+ can deliver speeds comparible to VZW's LTE, they don't really need to build their LTE network as fast as VZW does. VZW needs to build out LTE quick, because their (*ahem*) "3G" EVDO is really only 2G and limited to 3Mbps. Which they somehow get away with calling a "3G" network (again, marketing guys selling/branding a 2G network as 3G) LTE Advanced is official 4G, or basically a network using OFDM and delivering +100Mbps. This will be in the next 3GPP release, that's coming out this month, so basically nobody has a "real" 4G network at the moment. Have a look at how many of AT&T's phones have "4G*" next to it. That would lead you to believe they have a 4G network to support it, right? http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phones/index.jsp But if you look at the asterisk, it says: So when they sell LTE phones as "4G", how is the average consumer going to know? Are they going to put a new asterisk next to it and say "**Ok, not this is actually a real 4G device, and not the 3.75G devices we were selling you before labeled as 4G"
My guess is that they will label them "4G LTE"..... So basically for the market there are two kinds of 4G (HSPA+ and LTE). I think to the average consumer they won't know the difference since all they see is the number next to the G, but if you are a consumer paying attention to those details, I'm sure you can tell there is a difference between "4G" and "4G LTE". That's why Verizon has been advertising their network as "4G LTE" and not just "4G" as T-Mobile and AT&T are doing, kinda like to tell the audience that 4G LTE is better than plain 4G. I've also seen an AT&T TV ad saying that they are getting faster with "4G LTE". So again, I think they will use the "LTE" to differenciate it from HSPA+.
Thanks for the explanation Bob. I'm not in the US and not exposed to the marketing, except what I see in news articles and maybe a random banner ad on a website. I've just seen AT&T and T-Mob USA selling HSPA as "4G" which is just as bad as VZW saying EVDO is "3G". Kind of interesting that they will be "tagging on" LTE to the 4G acronym, never saw that one before. But since 3.75G was wrongly being sold as "4G", I guess they do need some way to differentiate. ...and when their current 3.9G "LTE" network gets upgraded to the actual ITU approved 4G of "LTE Advanced", then what? :headscrat Technology -- Technical Label -- Marketing Label HSPA+ ------------- 3.75G --------------- 4G LTE ----------------- 3.9G ----------------- 4G LTE LTE Advanced ----- 4G ------------------ 4G LTE (This time we really mean it) . ...I wish marketing would just listen to the engineering department for once. Then everything would be sold correctly and with less confusion. The problem is marketing wants to sell now and doesn't think ahead really. Like the used car salesmen who just wants the car with the leaky engine off the lot, so he wipes the oil off and says it's in perfect order, not really caring/considering whats going to happen tomorrow whent he customer finds a pool of oil in his driveway. Engineering department is more like the mechanic who tells you streight-up what condition the car is in
ITU specifically said LTE and Wimax deserve the moniker of 4G, regardless of tech specs, back in December. They kinda fudged around HSPA+. So really, the ITU signed off on all this 4G nonsense. In any case, AT&T is pitifully behind on LTE. AT&T customers deserve better.
Is this the press announcement you are referring to? Newsroom • Press Release There they say that LTE Advanced and mobile WiMAX/802.16m (referred to as "WirelessMAN Advanced) will be "true 4G". Here 3GPP says LTE Advanced will be starting with their R10: 3GPP - LTE-Advanced Here's their roadmap, R10 is finalized in March 2011 and commercial 3 months later. That means before June 2011 nobody is running "true 4G" in a live network. 3GPP - Releases AT&T is behind on LTE because it's not as critical to them, since their 3.75G HSPA+ networks can be milked a while longer. As an example, Verizon is limiting LET customers in most places to 12Mbps right now due to backhaul issues. https://www.lte.vzw.com/AboutLTE/VerizonWirelessLTENetwork/tabid/6003/Default.aspx There's people on T-Mobiles HSPA+ (3.75G) network are getting data rates of 21Mbps. 4G Mobile Broadband Provider | T-Mobile
ITU Redefines 4G. Again. | News & Opinion | PCMag.com And the speeds Verizon is advertising have little to do with backhaul, as users are reporting speeds well into the 20Mbps range quite often. Its just advertising a realistic expectation as the network becomes more saturated. And they aren't limiting anyone if people are getting faster speeds.
That's a pretty strange press release, because they define 4G: "IMT-Advanced (ie: LTE Advanced) is considered as “4G”. The next sentence is strange: "although it is recognized that this term, while undefined, may also be applied to the forerunners of these technologies". How can 4G be "undefined", when they just defined it a few words before as "IMT-Advanced"? To me, it says that they recognize some operators are mis-using the 4G label by applying it to 3G networks. As for backhaul, that's pretty much a major limiting factor in almost all networks right now. The air-interface of HSPA+ is reaching 21Mbps and will go up to 100Mbps in the next few years. LTE currently is reaching up to around 100Mbps on the air interface. The problem is most sites have PDH (E1/T1) backhaul that isn't matching those speeds. Alot of carriers are rushing to deploy fiber connections to their sites, but that takes a while. Sure, there's people getting 80Mbps on VZW's network right now in some places, and that's great, but it's not a speed you'll reach contiguously throughout the network, so they can't market those speeds, because the majority of subscribers won't be reaching that.
What that press release really means is that network operators (VZW, Sprint, and I'm sure a few others around the world) made some donations to the ITU so they could honestly call their networks 4G. I can assure you that every Verizon LTE cell site has fiber connections. That's part of the build out plan.
Ok, time for me to chime in on this thread. When it comes to "4G", I subscribe to the Mickey Papillon (aka the cell phone junkie) standard. The G's are just a marketing term, everyone here knows that. However, there used to be some meaning to it. On the CDMA side, 2G was 1xRTT, slow pokey dial up speeds, but it was a generational leap the mobile data before it, which wasn't practical. When EVDO was released, they branded it was 3G. This again was a generational leap over 1x in that speeds were vastly faster than 1x, as Rev. A reaches near 3mbps. That is a huge difference for the user. Enter 4G. On the LTE side, you are again getting usable speeds many times faster than what we had previously. This is really a generational leap. On the other hand, we have HSPA+ "4G." Generally, in real world usage, users are only seeing a slight bump up from what they had on 3G, if anything. Heck, the availability of this 4G is still so limited, AT&T does the best they can to hide any signs that you may be on or off the real HSPA+ network "with enhanced backhaul." Users generally don't see more than 5mbps on AT&Ts 4G, if ever that high. Heck, our own Charlyee lives in a "4G" area and didn't even know it until I showed her the map. What it boils down to is what the user experiences. When I had 4G on WiMax from Sprint, I would often times hit 10mbps (until they oversold the network and ran out of money to get more backhaul). That is a huge gain over 3G, as is the same with LTE on vzw. HSPA+ just doesn't cut it.
I absolutely agree. I was expecting much higher speeds with 4G and never dawned on me that I was on 4G. Back in September of last year I had d/l speeds of 2.6-3.5 as high on a non 4g phone on a 3g network. Now I have just about the same highs on a 4g phone.
Here is a little rant I wrote in response to someone on HoFo saying that it is the users fault for not knowing where AT&T HSPA+ 4G with enhanced backhaul is. "I totally, 100% disagree. How is it the end-users "problem" that they can't find this hidden map? If AT&T really wanted to show your their true "4G" coverage, they would put it front and center. To actually find this information, you have to go to their home page, then click coverage viewer, then switch to the data view, then match up the color of your area to the key at the bottom which reads "Mobile Broadband." Oh, ok, what exactly is mobile broadband? Click on it to bring a several page long breakdown of "coverage legend terms, get 1/3 down to see that mobile broadband = 3G. Then you scratch your head. Most people, if they have even gotten this far, stop there. The rest actually find the link on the left that reads "The Nation's Fastest Mobile Broadband network is getting faster with 4G" and click on "Learn more" Only then are you presented with the 4G info page, where you then have to click on the coverage tab on the bottom, which brings up a map of......3G coverage? "4G coverage not depicted." Finally, you then have to scroll over a city to then finally see the real 4G HSPA+ coverage....at a fixed zoom level that manages to cut off the edges of coverage so you have no idea where it actually ends. Quite simple, really. It's only about 9-10 steps."
Yea, I'm pretty sure it was pressure from some US operators that made the ITU cave in and let HSPA be tagged "4G". Same with them allowing EVDO to be tagged "3G", IIRC, 3G was originally required to support simultaneous voice+data, something that EVDO doesn't support ....well, ok, in the last year there are now CDMA/EVDO phones with dual radios, but anyway, nobody cares now. And now that I think about it, I don't see any other country in the world, besides US operators, labeling HSPA as "4G". Of course LTE is branded as 4G everywhere, even tho it's not LTE Adavanced yet, but it will be in the coming years, so that's not too big of a marketing lie.
"Generational leaps in user experiences" can still happen within a standard. For example, EDGE pumped up the data rates on 2G GSM, so EDGE was (unofficially) called 2.5G. Same with HSPA, it's still happening within the 3G UMTS system, but significantly bumped up data speeds, and was (again unofficially) called 3.5G. As it pumped it up even further with MIMO it was called 3.75G. From an end-user perspective, it makes sense. But still the "base" technology was respected. If you call HSPA+ "4G", you're disrespecting the 3G UMTS base standard and insinuating it's an all new system, which it isn't. That's the same reason I don't agree with calling EVDO 3G, because it's a "bolt-on" to the 2G CDMA system. LTE is an all-new system and can/should be called 4G. Globally speaking, Canada is basically the US, but with better hockey and beer...and a twist of socialism
While I agree with the better beer part (mmmm....labatt) what really makes the difference is their crazy 3 year contracts!
At least they are generationally consistent??? I have just as fast/faster data speeds on a non 3G phone on a 2G network as I get on the 3G phone/network.