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antenna type??

Discussion in 'PRE-PAID Cell Phone Companies and Plans' started by TWX, Jan 12, 2007.

  1. TWX

    TWX Mobile Enthusiast
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    Does anyone know what kind of antenna's these are? They are Cellular One's, are they omni-directional (the big black antennas)? [​IMG]
     
  2. hillbilly44

    hillbilly44 Senior Member
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    Alienware;

    They are definitely omni whips. must be out in the boonies. :browani:
     
  3. TWX

    TWX Mobile Enthusiast
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    Lol yeah, I do live in the boonies! ;)
     
  4. TWX

    TWX Mobile Enthusiast
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    That tower is also broadcasting EDGE, I just found that out today......
     
  5. hillbilly44

    hillbilly44 Senior Member
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    Omni's are also why CellOne (Dobson) is in trouble with the FCC for not complying with Phase 2 E911 requirements.;)
     
  6. TWX

    TWX Mobile Enthusiast
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    really? So is Dobson going to have to replace the omni's with sectorized panels?
     
  7. hillbilly44

    hillbilly44 Senior Member
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    If they want to come into compliance with the FCC, most likely.:cool:
     
  8. wirles

    wirles I'm baaaaaaaaaack
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    Not really. The problem is that their current vendor (TruePosition) doesn't know how to properly locate on an omni directional transmitting site. The GeoMetrix product team came up with a patented solution for this using a proprietary algorithm on the GSM channels that uses time difference of arrival, along with something called 'bore sight'. Making assumptions of the azimuth (within a range) based on the antenna being used on a multiple antenna site (such as pictured) and timing to determine distance they can be compliant. Remember, the compliance is calculated using the erlangs (call volume measurement) in a given boundary (usually a state). As long as the entire state isn't omni directional coverage, they are fine. Also, they can use neighbor site hearability using BCCH to assist in the 'bore site' direction by mapping where you are based on statistical probability of the particular neighbor sites location and your timing to it's wireless location sensor.

    BTW: Those antennas are called Bogners. That is the name used generically these days for big fat fiberglass whips, usually relatively high power. It originates from Richard Bogner of Bogner antenna. His broadcast antennas
    account for a fair proportion of all full power antennas. He is one of
    the RF pioneers of the TV age. A popular design type made by Bogner is the pictured tubular design with its surface populated with discreet radiating elements. These form antenna arrays.
     
  9. TWX

    TWX Mobile Enthusiast
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    thanks for all the input guys! :D
     
  10. hillbilly44

    hillbilly44 Senior Member
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    wirles;

    I would agree that TruePosition is part of their problem but unless they are going to eat alot of money that's who they'll be using for E911. The best system seems to be a combination of GPS based handset and triangulation based systems but even that will have holes (like a DAS system);)
     
  11. TWX

    TWX Mobile Enthusiast
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    Ic, why did Dobson put omni's up in the first place, why didn't they go with sectorized. Do they use the omni's only out in the boonies, because they are really powerful???
     
  12. wirles

    wirles I'm baaaaaaaaaack
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    A DAS is easy to deal with on GSM. It is called fixed site locate. You create a centroid lat/long in the database that gets provided to the PSAP on a 911 call made via the DAS radio. If it is a large structure (DFW airport, or Bill Gates' home) you can sectorize strands of the fiber from the hub and each one has a centroid of it's own. This, along with the 'averaging' of accuracy for the market maintain compliance. Andrew (GeoMetrix) is the innovator in 'virtual' site locates using this fixed method and proprietary patented devices that work in tandem with a DAS. I'll take a properly designed and installed TDOA/AOA system over A-GPS anyday.
     
  13. wirles

    wirles I'm baaaaaaaaaack
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    Initially many carriers used an omni design because they didn't need the capacity of a sectorized system. They wanted less sites with larger propogation rings. In larger markets (not the boonies :) ) they need smaller sites capable of more call volume, therefore sectorization and more precise coverage areas.
     
  14. RadioFoneGuy

    RadioFoneGuy Powered by HTC FUZE
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    Yes those are Bogner style antennas. Those are 20ft tall 12 db gain and were designed for max distantance and were designed for analog service where the towers where alot farther apart. These are found mostly in RFB and in the thumb area. There are alot of these still in use in the sticks so to speak. Panel antennas are a better alternative as they are cheaper and are rated for 18 db gain and cost $1000 over $15000 for Bogners.
     
  15. TWX

    TWX Mobile Enthusiast
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    Do you think cellone will switch them to panels? or will they keep using the bogners??
     
  16. RadioFoneGuy

    RadioFoneGuy Powered by HTC FUZE
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    We have already converted alot last year. I know they have plans to do alot more. When or where I dont know yet.
     
  17. Kevi

    Kevi New Member

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    I have 30 to 40 Bogners for sell BCR12 12db gain A,B,D,H,O some new and some used. How much do u think i can get for each now days? (cell 318-537-0700 Kevin)
     
  18. RadioFoneGuy

    RadioFoneGuy Powered by HTC FUZE
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    Couldnt tell you for sure. I dont know what the demand is for those anymore. The industry is pretty much trying to get away from using alot of omni sites and going with panels. The Bogners area a pain to deal with cause of their size.
     
  19. Kevi

    Kevi New Member

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    Ya thay are big I'v put one up a 300 foot tower.
     
  20. rubenyona

    rubenyona New Member

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    Yes those are definately omni directional antennas
     

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