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$5 Billion Opener For Verizon

Discussion in 'Wireless News' started by DandyDon, Apr 8, 2004.

  1. DandyDon

    DandyDon Senior Member
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    I thought VZW valued this Spectrum @ $7 Billion? Looks like they are pulling out all the guns to prevent Nextel from getting this spectrum. The FCC will rule soon, will be interesting.
     
  2. jayc

    jayc Bronze Senior Member
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    Wow... bold move from VZW. [​IMG]
     
  3. MrFlashport

    MrFlashport Junior Member
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    HA HA HA...well, 5 billion is certainly more than Nextel says the spectrum is worth according to their Scam Plan....looks like they are hosed. I can't wait until the FCC starts requiring Nextel to clean up their crappy sites within 60 days or else...well, do I have the honor of pulling the plug on those crummy iDEN base stations that wreak havoc on my trunking system? How about a few rounds from the ol' Glock 22 into the power supply, that would make for a nice fireworks show[​IMG]

    Now the FCC can't refuse the auction process like they did the first time when Nextel tried this scam before (anyone remember NextWave?)...
     
  4. Fire14

    Fire14 Easy,Cheap & Sleazy
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    Sure leave it to Verizon to cause a problem that is suppose to be a solution to a Public Safety issue. Now i really hate Verizon, they don't care about Police, Firefighters or EMS being safe.
     
  5. mcf04581

    mcf04581 Senior Member
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    Why would you hate them? If you were running a business, you would do the same thing. While it may be the supposed answer to a Public Safety Issue, to Verizon its not the best and they are just out to prove it.
     
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  6. GoodmanR

    GoodmanR Silver Senior Member
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    I hate to break it to you but they care no more or less than Nextel. None of these companies care that much about anything but their bottom line. Nextel isn't pushing this plan to make public safety better off, they are pushing it to give themselves the spectrum they need to stay in business. If public safety radio was thier #1 priority, they would have worked these issues out on a case by case basis a long long time ago. Verizon isn't doing anything here that Nextel hasn't already done.
     
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  7. Fire14

    Fire14 Easy,Cheap & Sleazy
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    Well having been following this issue for a while now in all the fire and EMS trade magazines that i get, and Nextel has been working on resolving this problem for the last few years to make it better knowing they were causing a problem and wanted to do something about it, now they have the solution and Verizon want's to basically block it so they can get the frequencies and still have a problem for us public safety people. Unfortunatly the FCC was not making it easy for Nextel to come up with a usable plan till now.
     
  8. MrFlashport

    MrFlashport Junior Member
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    Hey Fire14, take it from someome who works on your radios and systems for a living brother, I am not on Nextel's payroll (like APCO is...see their 501(c)3 tax documents...it's all there) and you are totally wrong about Verizon on this one.

    They aren't the ones causing us interference like Nextel is. They aren't the ones who wanted to play cellphone company on the wrong band. They are not the ones buying off FCC commissioners and past chairmans like Nextel has, and they certainly aren't the ones spreading lies and misinformation based on ZERO technical fact like Nextel is...

    all they want is an open bid process on radio spectrum like we are supposed to have. If Nextel wants it, let them bid competitively like everyone else.

    Nextel's poor business decisions and interference to us is their own making. Let them lay in it.

    It is about time that we start being responsible in this country even when we make big mistakes and that means paying the consequences. If Nextel were to go out of business because of it, so be it. No one said life was easy.
     
  9. Fire14

    Fire14 Easy,Cheap & Sleazy
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    Don't get me wrong, I did say that it was a problem with the FCC & Nextel, and the only problem i have with the open bidding is, they may not get the frequencies to help the problem and then what?

    Maybe i am being hard about this and bias'd and sorry for that, I just am concerned about my fellow brothers & sisters out there. Again i am sorry if i have been harsh or angry sounding.
     
  10. Airb330

    Airb330 Silver Senior Member
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    It's Nextel's and the FCC's fault. I don't like the fact Nextel seems to be getting a lot of stuff for free. Either way, the citizens of the US suffer due to police, fire, etc. having poor radios thanks to Nextel's interference.
     
  11. GoodmanR

    GoodmanR Silver Senior Member
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    I appreciate where you are coming from and what you are saying...but to say that public safety is goal $1 for nextel is completely wrong.
     
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  12. Fire14

    Fire14 Easy,Cheap & Sleazy
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    Understood, and again sorry for being harsh.[​IMG]
     
  13. WirelessBeachBum

    WirelessBeachBum Soylent Green is People
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    Wow...do you realize how much money 5 billion dollars is?

    According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census, the resident population of the United States, projected to 4/9/2004 at 12:44:47 AM EDT is

    292,979,386

    If every resident in the US were to pay for this spectrum we would have to pull 17 dollars each out of our pockets....

    So if Verizon pays for it each Verizon customer would be paying about $137 dollars...based on 37 million customers....
     
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  14. ehcruzan

    ehcruzan Bronze Senior Member
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    If the FCC was regulating properly they would have reined in Nextel a long time ago. They new Nextel was causing interference from a long time ago and they allowed it to fester into such a huge problem. I don't think they should be beneficiaries of spectrum for a price far below what others are willing to pay. Nextel knew that their system was causing interference with public safety communications but continued to expand without consideration. They obviously could care less about the safety of first responders.
     
  15. coalminer

    coalminer Senior Member
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    What I wonder is when Verizon is going to use all of the PCS spectrum they have now, I think they FCC needs to take some of that back because they have not built it out. And now they are going to spend money on buying more?????? They are going to waste money that could be spent on making their network even more superior on that 10mhz of spectrum they will never use. Here is a link to show where they already own PCS licenses, now how many of them are used now or will be used????



    VZW pcs license map

    By the way, I dont know who created that map, but nice job on it.
     
  16. DemoMan

    DemoMan Senior Member
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    Even if Verizon did acquire the new spectrum, is it within the frequency range of current CDMA handsets?
     
  17. ShoresGuy

    ShoresGuy Euer WA Experte in Europa
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    More news about this here:

    Link
     
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  18. agentHibby

    agentHibby Iowa Cellular Guru
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    That many reason I see why Nextel wants this 10 Mhz above PCS band is to discontinue iDEN and go with CDMA.
    buildout rules on current SMR licenses is iDEN only. So if Netel puts up CDMA they will still have to send out iDEN signal. Nextel wants to phase out iDEN.

    Verizon with this is doing it for 2 possible reasons
    A They don't want the 10 MHz and are doing what Nextel did in auction 35 (last PCS auction) to rase the price of cheap PCS licenses to a decent price. Verizon may just want an auction.

    Other reason is EV-DO.
    You will notice that the areas Verizon started EV-DO, Verizon uses both Cellular and PCS there. When Verizon lauches EV-DO nationwide in markets that are only Cellular the blocked calls are going to increase. Verizon could use the 10 MHz just for EV-DO and not have to worry about a major increase in blocked calls.

    What is the correct answer??
    Verizon will not tell us yet [​IMG]
     
  19. agentHibby

    agentHibby Iowa Cellular Guru
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    Yes it probably would be.

    Current PCS blocks A-F range is 1850-1910 1930-1990

    The rage for this new license is 1910-1915 1990-1995

    Would this be called PCS block G or SMR??? I don't know yet?
     
  20. jones

    jones Silver Senior Member
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    And some POSTERS Here said the 1900 MHz is not good at Building Penetration, that's why T-Mobile is not good because it uses 1900 MHZ.
    Are they saying it's ok for VZW but bad for others?
    How come VZW is offering 5 Billion for this Gooffy Freq Band?
     
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  21. xikle

    xikle For rent: inquire below
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    More bandwidth.

    As I understand it 1900 mhz doesn't penatrate buildings as well as 800 mhz, but if you have a tower that is closer to the building that is 1900 mhz and one farther away that is 800 mhz then the 1900 mhz tower will penatrate better because it is closer. Now if the towers were the same distance from the building the 800 mhz tower would give better coverage in the building.
     
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  22. coalminer

    coalminer Senior Member
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    There is only one reason Verizon wants to bid on this, so Nextel does not get it, plain and simple. Has nothing to do with them needing more spectrum.
     
  23. Fire14

    Fire14 Easy,Cheap & Sleazy
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    1900 Mhz when built right will give you the same building penatration that 850 will, it's all in how it's deployed. I know 2 coworkers 1 with T-Mobile and 1 with Cingular get full coverage in the basement of our work building, where i do not yet get coverage in the basement with AT&T. I do know that AT&T is putting up antenna near work and they are deploying 850 so i will have coverage there too. But they have it already on 1900, since that is what T-Mobile and Cingular have in North Jersey.
     
  24. bobolito

    bobolito Diamond Senior Member
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    Building penetration is different between 1900Mhz and 800Mhz. When you have a situation where you get good signal in a basement with 1900Mhz and weak to no signal on 850Mhz, that only means that the 1900Mhz site is much closer than the 850Mhz site. So in that case, you are just looking at cell placement advantage. Therefore, that is not a well balanced comparison because the 1900Mhz site is at an unfair advantage for the sake of comparison. It is like having an SUV try to pull a trailer truck uphill and compare it to a Toyota Corolla going uphill with just two people inside. Of course, the Corolla will reach the top of the hill with a lot less difficulty, but that doesn't mean the SUV has a less powerful engine.

    To give you a more precise example, I sampled signal readings today while in NYC. I was with both an AT&T TDMA 800Mhz phone and a Cingular GSM 1900Mhz phone. Standing outside I got a reading of -66dB on the Cingular 1900Mhz network and -75dB on the AT&T 800Mhz network. Inside the building, the readings switched places. I had -95dB on the 1900Mhz network and -87dB on the 800Mhz phone. I mean, both services worked just fine inside the building, but the readings indicate how much easier 1900Mhz signals fade compared to 800Mhz signals. Because of this, it is clear that it will take a more powerful 1900Mhz to beat an 800Mhz network for indoor coverage.
     
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  25. agentHibby

    agentHibby Iowa Cellular Guru
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    If verizon does EV-DO in cellular markets that they don't do PCS, they will need this and EV-DO will not be problem.

    I do agree primary reason is they don't want nextel to have it.
    10 MHz nation wide should at least go for 10 billion in my opinon. 2 billion went for NewYork in auction 35 witch Verizon won and did not get. [​IMG]
    how much more should it go for a nation wide license.
     
  26. DandyDon

    DandyDon Senior Member
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    Of course VZW doesn't want it, they are just making a complicated issue more complicated. Not to mention it would DO NOTHING to solve the interferance issues during this time of hightened Homeland Security.

    Think about it, the most offered for 10MHz of spectrum was $3.3 Billion, but was never paid. The most ever paid was just 1/5, or 20% of VZW's offer. Remember, this is the same company, SBC, who had Cingular bid an outragous amount for AT&T Wireless.

    This move by VZW is so they have someone to sue when the FCC rules.
     
  27. Fire14

    Fire14 Easy,Cheap & Sleazy
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    I agree, i was just saying if 1900 is built "right" then you would be ok. 850 is a major improvement vs 1900 and would rather see 850 everywhere. I believe in europe most are on 1800 with some at 900 and they have good to excellent coverage with 1800 if i am correct since they built it right. Correct me if i am wrong Bobolito.
     
  28. @TheRealDanny

    @TheRealDanny ALL IN
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    DandyDon, I think there is a lot more to the situation than any of us are aware of. It looks like it has become more of a debate of: "my carrier vs your carrier," and not anything at all about public safety. I really don't think either company truly has public safety in mind or this would of been taken care long ago. Verizon and Nextel both are guilty of stupid lawsuits which have not been beneficial for either party. Remember: "You stole my phone," or, "You can't say PTT we made up those words..." Nextel has more to lose, so naturally they'll jump on any opportunity to gain more spectrum. Bottom line, Nextel needs it to offer next generation services. Verizon doesn't immediately need it, but it will be useful for them in the future as they continue to roll out high end services. It is the FCC's fault it has gotten this far. But it would be responsible for Nextel to own up to the situation as they are the ones who have profited off the network so far and do what it takes to take care of the problem. If it means playing by the rules enforced by the FCC and bidding for spectrum fairly, so be it. Verizon has a majority of the market share, and a lot of cash. You don't always have to be the best to win in the wireless world. It's kind of like stepping on someone when they are already down. I think Verizon is aware of that and will hamper any opportunity for Nextel to grow. Dirty? Not fair? Probably. I think we have to wake up and realize that all major wireless carriers don't operate on a, "Mom and pop," "Mi casa es su casa," "We care about you not your money," basis. When this blows over, Verizon will sue Nextel for stealing CDMA secrets then Nextel will countersue over rights to the name "phone."
     
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  29. MrFlashport

    MrFlashport Junior Member
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    Now that's good, some pro-scam planner finally admitting that Nextel's ongoing jamming to our radio system IS a matter of HOMELAND SECURITY.

    Why don't we just go ahead and give Nextel their PCS under one condition:

    GET THE HECK OFF 800MHz within say, 12 months max, and respond to open complaints (like mine) with absolute resolution within 60 days.

    Then it is time to get Congress to rebuild the FCC "from the ground up"...let's start with getting rid of these numbnuts like Kathleen Abernathy and other such clowns who know nothing about RF, spectrum managment and put some bite back into the enforcement of current laws (such as the Comm Act of 1934 with regards to interference with public safety radio, etc).

    Do I want Nextel to get a "freebie" on the PCS block? Absoultely not, but it will cost them a several billion to build out a new PCS network, and phase out their noisemaking 800MHz iDEN crap anyway. So they WILL end up paying.

    At least they will be out of our hair and can actually be a real celphone company instead of impersonating one on an ESMR band and stepping all over us.
     
  30. NYCDru

    NYCDru Sprint Newbie
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    Hmmm..Scary thought......Nextel Stops selling Cell service to non public saftey and starts actually being a public saftey EMSR? Yeah right...itrll' never happen.....on the opther hand...public saftey will ALWAYS BE THERE.....what better a customer base?
     

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