4G Defintion starting to shape up for 2009/09 release

So I know Sprint is doing Wimax but what name goes with the other carriers?

 

AT&T and T-Mobile (and any other UMTS operators) = LTE

Verizon (and any other EVDO operators) = UMB

WiMAX isn't really related to any previous technology (well, maybe related to 802.11in a way...) so whoever builds a WiMAX network starts from the ground up with a whole new network. UMB and LTE is just a continuing evolution of existing 3G networks (kind like how 2G GSM went into GPRS, then EDGE, etc...)

But 4G will happen mostly in the core network, so don't wait for any ground-breaking stuff in the radio access network anytime in the near future...ok, well everyone is now working the OFDM, but that's not really "new". Actually 802.11a has been using it since 1999, but for whatever reason, suddenly now everyone realized it's good at overcoming multi-path fading. OK, better late than never...

 

I get 30 MBps on MIMO enabled 802.16e wimax devices, that certainly fits the bill for a 4G network.

 

Only in a lab environment. In the real world it won't work that well. Since most WiMax systems 2500Mhz is still going to make site spacing important. I don;t think they're going to get the 30mile coverage they claim.

 

Sprint is playing with fire here. By taking the WiMax route, they stand to be an oddball in the wireless industry, just like Nextel is/was with nobody to roam on to help them. They won't be able to roam on Verizon or Alltel or any other carrier that chooses the UMB path. T-Mobile and AT&T will have each other to roam on.

That's not a very high expectation for 4G. That's almost as good as 3G/3.5G will be in the future. 4G has to do much better than that. Like they said in the article, the expectations are in the area of 100mbps.

 

Here's a presentation from Ericsson that's a year old (May 2006) and they mention getting 20 Mbps with HSDPA, and soon expect rates of over 100 Mbps:

http://www.ericsson.com/ericsson/investors/events/2006/doc/cmd/cellularevolution.pdf

In Germany earlier this year HSDPA was demo-ed with 160 Mbps (sorry, in German only):

Forscher bei Nokia Siemens Networks verdoppeln Uplink-Kapazität durch Virtual MIMO im LTE-Netz. Reduktion von Herstellungskosten und Stromverbrauch be - PresseEcho.de

....of course all of these mega-high bit rates will require a really good raido enviornment! (That's the same for WiMAX also!)

 

And a serious amount of backhaul that the LEC's here in the US aren't capable of providing right now.

 

WOW thanks

 

Found it in english!
Researchers at Nokia Siemens Networks double the capacity in uplink using Virtual MIMO in LTE networks. Reduction of user equipment cost and power consumption

 

HAHA now I can actually understand it .,

 

It is unfair to dismiss an entire technology based on one experience of a product that has yet to even reach the market (in an official certified release). Nobody expects WiMax to stand still, I see daily throughput breakthroughs as it progress toward certification. (Again, the mobile variant, I know Wateen and others have put out nomadic WiMax)

Europe is investing in WiMax. Asia is very interested in WiMax. Also WiMax won't be the only signal to each device. I've made voice calls on GSM and CDMA phones with WiMax data support. Roaming will be no different than it is today.

As to raw throughput, anyone who honestly gets excited by these numbers must be expecting to by the only user on a system. Assuming a gigabit switch on each access point, your backhaul throughput decreases with each user. So unless you move all your mobile data at 3am, broadband modem speeds are the more likely reality. Which is still pretty good considering the relative slower actual speed of 3G today.

 

Yeah right now Sprint can only roam on 1x with Verizon not sure about alltel so honestly I dont think it would make a big difference.

 

Some European networks are looking to WiMax (I believe Vodafone is), but they are also looking to LTE. Personally my money is on LTE to become the dominant standard across Europe.

 

WiMAX won't be a "wash" like iDen was, but I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket with them either and say it will be the dominant 4G technology. UMTS/HSDPA infrastructure allready exists, so it's alot easier for existing operators to just continue to evolve along that path with LTE, instead of building a WiMAX network from basically scratch.

WiMAX networks do exist in Europe, but mainly as a replacement for fixed line ADSL in rural areas where it's not cost effective to lay cables in the ground. Mobile WiMAX was just ratified in the last year or so, so it's still a "new" technology. The only thing that's really pushing it is Intel, and they will try to embed it in new laptops, which is a powerful force. However, if no operators are willing to roll out large-scale networks, it will wind up dead on the side of the road. Sprint is taking a gamble. Time will tell if it pays off. If I look in my crystal ball, I think they'll have limited success, but LTE will be dominant. Let's wait 3-5 years and see...

 

That's going to be a big (ie: costly) problem for the operators. Altho the costly PDH/SDH and ATM links will be replaced by all IP, that's still a way away. And operators tend to always "forget" about backhaul transmission, since it's not as visable and sexy as the radio access network ;-)

 

yeah, more like .30 mile

 

My concern as well.

 

What is the rationale for Sprint to be rusing towards WiMax so quickly? They seem to be cantering along at a jolly pace whereas most other networks around the world are still focusing on their 3G efforts.

 

Probably because their 3G deployment is pretty much done. Almost all of the corporate owned markets are EVDO Rev A.

 

Sprint is running WIMAX on 2.5ghz. What else runs at that frequency. In a brief web search I didn't see anybody trying to sell CDMA or GSM gear at that frequency. What other choices do they have for that spectrum?

 

I understand those arguments, but isn't it somewhat risky to be implementing a new technology so quickly when they don't yet know what shape the 4G world will take? As bobolito said above, does Sprint perhaps run the risk of being, to use bobolito's term, an 'oddball'? Does Sprint have any plans to use other 4G technologies as well as WiMax?

 

They may be the oddball for this. But getting the Iphone made ATT the oddball but they did well as well as the first Razr. So who knows maybe this will hold true being the oddball these days.

 

@RJB

In what way did getting the iPhone make AT&T the oddball?

 

IMO this made them the oddball because noone else has anything like this and so they were different.

 

@RJB

I understand, but that isn't what I meant with regards to Sprint. If WiMax isn't adopted to any great extent by other major networks around the world Sprint might find itself part of a relatively small market, which may result in them not getting as many and/or the same quality products as networks who are using more widely adopted technologies. In that sense Sprin would be an 'oddball'.

 

Re: 4G Definition starting to shape up for 2009/09 release

Verizon will be taking the LTE route. UMB may end up dead on the national level. I guess US cellular and Alltel may go UMB, but that is guessing based on that they are CDMA.

 

Wow, this thread is a month old. Everyone knows about VZW already.

 

Re: 4G Definition starting to shape up for 2009/09 release

Yea, Verizon announced that a few days after I posted that. Verizon taking LTE was a real shocker Looks like the Qualcom/CDMA road will hit the dead-end sign sooner than expected Verizon is/was their biggest customer. Without them UMB may not just be dead on a national level, but on a global level as well...

 

Re: 4G Definition starting to shape up for 2009/09 release

Which of these platforms will use smart chips? Anybody know?