1/11/11: Verizon's Big iPhone Announcement

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

Too funny! I nearly spit up my soda.
Wonder which is older, the iPhone or Justin Bieber?

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

I pretty much agree with you Yankee. Back in 2007 GSM 3G was not common in carriers in the US nor in phones. The situation was very different elsewhere, as in Europe and Asia(Japan). Apple relied on Wi-Fi as being more useful than ATT's 3G service back then. Even so, the Apple 2G was not a big seller: it was overpriced and wasn't forward thinking by the lack of 3G regardless (for those that cared...a small group). So it was a mistake for Apple, IMO.

But a powerhouse like Nokia really was frustrating. Nokia makes hundred's of phone, yet I couldn't fine one phone that had what I wanted: They would give you one feature in a phone...but take another away. I just couldn't find a phone that had quad bands and the right US 3G frequencies. They just wanted to keep US and Euro flavors separate.

That is pretty much why I finally dumped Nokia. Nokia was years behind everyone else in just coming out with Quad bands...and my friend Charylee can testify to that, as we were both waiting for a phone to come out ( and settled on a Nokia flip). A really poorly managed company...which is why management heads are rolling over there and profits are sinking. Nokia could become the next niche phone company! As anyone knows, all product manufactures pace their product roll outs to make more money...but Nokia was taking it to an extreme.


The reason why I was surprised by the lack of a GSM/WCDMA/CDMA phone was because leaked photos of a new iPhone showed the same new exterior design as the current ViPhone...but with a slot for a SIM card on the side.

So either it was a new iPhone 5 with an updated antenna placement, matching the ViPhone...or it was a world Verizon iPhone, meant to capture that market. So for certain there will some merger in the next year or two, and certainly with LTE coming into service.

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

But the iPhone 3G released only 1 year later, did AT&T really improve on their 3G so much in 1 year to make a difference?

I generally like Nokia as a company, but if they don't change something, and soon, they will be in a nose-dive together with RIM. Yea, Nokia would just flood the market with a million designs and most of them sucked. I think now they are focusing more on "flagship" devices, like the N8, which is a really nice phone, but lack of a keyboard killed it for me. Plus they are still sticking to Symbian, which I guess they have to, but if they keep tanking, I don't see any other option for them except to raise the white flag and go to Android.

Actually, Motorola's handset division was just about to hit the ground when suddenly Android combined with some nice hardware re-designs pulled them out of it. The handset market is so volatile it's nuts. Samsung came out of pretty much nowhere to take the #2 spot. The granddaddy of mobile phones Ericsson had to merge with Sony to keep alive, and even then still got knocked back to the #4 or 5 spot. And Android as an OS is only what, 2 years old and it's already the dominant (or will soon be) OS? It's nuts, really. Anything can happen.

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

was very surprised by the results of our polls here on WA, granted it is a very small sample size but I don't see a overwhelming interest to go over to Verizon for the iPhone, infact nobody said they absolutely were.

If this had happened before Android took off, I am sure the results would have been much different.

Just my 2 cents.

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Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

Really? It doesn't surprise me at all.

I don't think many ATT users on WA were interested in the iPhone before Android either. True, WA is a small sample...the average members logged on is only in the 50's each day (compared to a peak of 3,000 a couple of years back).

But given that the current smartphone US market share is nearly split 1/3 between iPhone, Android OS and RIM...there are only 3 or 4 iPhone users on WA? Pretty underrepresented for a phone forum. So I doubt any poll would favor ViPhone.

But I guess there were only 3 or 4 Nokia 6230 users too Charlyee. You, me, Bobolito, and maybe another 2? Now that was a great phone in its day. Still have it. But no one else on WA seemed that interested.

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

I recall when the iPhone first came out and the subsequent couple of years, the many WA members wanting and expecting a CDMA version and the many times a news source was cited as it was coming and people getting excited about it.

The Verizon subscriber poll surprises me even more, I definitely expected way more saying "about time, we have waited 3.5 years for it", again based on the posts here.

I am interested in seeing the actual numbers after the CDMA iPhone arrives, what actually happened vs what people were clamoring for. I definitely think the numbers would have been much higher a year or so back.

Btw, yes Nokia has been a major disappointment.

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Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

I don't think they'll be any huge rush on a VZW iPhone right now. Most of the people who really wanted an iPhone got one already, regardless if AT&T was the best provider in their area or not (and complain loudly about it). I guess the majority are locked into AT&T contracts and can't bail too easily, or maybe just got used to AT&T and will stay with them for whatever reason (maybe service improved, or they got a microcell, or have freinds/family also on AT&T, etc.).

I also think alot of people who are unhappy with AT&T and do want to bail will wait until June when the iPhone5 is released (or at least a "world" CDMA/GSM/UMTS iPhone). The iPhone4 is already a half-year old, and that's a dinosaur in phone-years Also, for existing VZW customers, I think alot of people have probably just grew tired of waiting for a VZW iPhone, got an Android and are happy with it (see MobileMike for more info )

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

I tend to agree with your thoughts and they are mirrored on the at&t forums. Prior to the Verizon iPhone announcement, there were a lot of at&t iPhone users decrying at&t and threatening to leave "the minute we get a Verizon option". Either they are already "gone" in eager anticipation (LOL!) or it was mostly tough talk. There is at least a 10 page thread over there with only about two users indicating they plan to leave for Verizon next month.

It seems to mostly be 1) people will wait until the summer to see what happens between the iPhone 5 on at&t vs. an LTE iPhone on Verizon 2) people are locked into contracts on their iPhone 4 and so don't mind waiting a bit to make a decision vs. making the jump "right now" and 3) the lack of simultaneous use of voice and data on CDMA.

I guess anything can happen though - even if I don't expect there to be a huge number of current Verizon users who will switch to the iPhone at this point in time. I think it would have been tremendously different even just one year back - but now Android is too close a competitor, has it's obvious benefits, and people are accustomed to/enjoy using it.

I was literally "stopped in my tracks" stunned when I first heard that at&t sold more iPhone 4's during the first quarter of it's existence than any other iPhone model to date. I suppose it's sales volume was aided significantly by the fact that at&t really wasn't releasing any decent Android models at that point. I completely understood the overwhelming response to the original 2G iPhone. As even though it was lacking in terms of features, it still changed the device world for the better, imo, whether you are an Apple fan or not. But I can't really comprehend the tremendous response to the iPhone 4. And I wish more at&t iPhone users would leave for Verizon so that maybe my 3G SE W518a would be faster than my 2G SE W580i.

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

That is one thing I am hoping will happen, that at&t concentrate more on Androids, every other provider is ahead of at&t in the Android game.

Obviously at&t can not multi-task, and so could only focus on the iPhone for the last 3.5 years.

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

Yep - that's why my expectation is that it will be a blip on the radar screen in terms of Verizon or other CDMA provider users switching to an iPhone at this point. IMO, Apple/Verizon's one great hope would have been to capitalize on at&t user's dissatisfaction - and the timing of this release does not do that well at all. Most at&t users who seem to still entertain the idea of switching are waiting for an LTE Verizon iPhone. (Will that solve the simultaneous use of voice and data issue? I've lost track of the specifics with so many versions of the various technologies under discussion these days - many of which are "fake", but the "rename" has been deemed to be "OK". lol. Sorry - but at some point my brain shut down in all the confusion. )

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

Hmmm, Charlyee. I just realized that your X10 has only a virtual keyboard. I'm very surprised you went that route!

How is that working out for you?

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

It is working out much better than I expected to and i am just as profient on as I was with a keyboard.

I do have a modified keyboard not stock, so that helps as well, and ofcourse spell check, although word suggestion/completion can be sometimes a curse.

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

AutoComplete?

Then you should check this website. Warning...it is not for the prudish. An example...

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

lol, yes I have seen that and it can easily happen.

Here is Consumer Report's 2 cents:

More:

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

Thanks for the good laugh Charlyee That was probably better than 'Damn you autocorrect'

I especially like the backhanded way Consumer Reports disses the iPhone 4 via Verizon's CDMA service:

Drawbacks:

It suffers CDMA's shortcomings. Because it uses this network technology, the Verizon iPhone 4 will lacks a few tricks that GSM phones, including the AT&T, can do. You can't simultaneously access the Web and place a voice call on a CDMA phone. And where you can use GSM phones with relative ease in much of the world, the same isn't true of CDMA phones, which won't automatically roam onto wireless networks abroad.

So after complaining that Apple doesn't put the iPhone on all carriers...when it does...it then disses Verizon so that it can fault the ViPhone4? Geez.

Poor CS, they rated the iPhone 4 the best smartphone last year...but couldn't recommend it...yet it became the biggest selling single phone hardware in 2010. How sad for them.

How many phones running Android (30 to 40) out there are middle aged too?

I think the ViPhone will sell its full 6-7 million inventory come Feb very easily. In June, there may be a GSM-CDMA phone with new features for those that want it. But very few Verizon customers get Verizon world phone regardless. So that impact will be small.

But I think of all those adults...and teenagers of Verizon adults that will want their new or first smartphone to be the iPhone 4. Apple will do well. Young adults certainly don't read CR...nor does this old man here...

The raw CS blog is here.

CS is very unwilling to admit that they blew it...

I did some consulting for CS many years ago....well, I'll say no more...

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

This whole "verizon can't do voice and data at the same time" thing is absurd. It is being blown way out of proportion. I am usually on wifi as it is, so that drawback is irrelevant. Even if it were capable, I don't think I really ever run into a situation where I need to access data while on a call. Even if I did, I would need to use a headset or speakerphone to do it. All of that is pretty annoying. At least all my email is cached on the phone.

As for the international travel thing, this topic has been covered before. A huge majority of users will never leave the continent. Most of North America has CDMA anyway.

 

I for one cannot do without simultaneous voice and data or international capability.

Just about every time I am on hold with someone, I am web browsing, often waiting for an email from them or looking up ammunition for the call I am on.

As for international, that's where I travel 90% of the time.

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Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

I have to agree 100% with you there Charlyee

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

I guess I am just in such a habit of being on wifi (due to Verizons (and sprints) shortcomings here) that I never have that problem. I have my phone on wifi at home, at school, and remembered just about every open AP downtown, haha.

I also have never left the US, other than Canada, so I am not affected by CDMA roaming.

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

That's what I would have thought too re: the simultaneous voice and data, but I've been very surprised by how many GSM users seem to believe it is very important for them - even non-technical, non-business users. I've always felt it was a negligible feature at best (but recognizing it may be more important for a business user) as I've never had a phone call shut down my data even with the 2G devices. The data activity is suspended for the phone call and then it resumes once the call is ended. Plus the fact that I really don't like using a headphone for calls (my calls are too short to be worth the trouble), so I wouldn't be able to browse while actually speaking/listening anyway. lol.

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

...was there a problem with the iPhone 4 antenna?

:lmao:...so I guess Apples "unique" external iPhone4 antenna license fees will be attenuated...er...reduced?

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

Well considering so many users on WA are changing phones almost every 6 months, it doesn't make much sense to buy a phone with a feature that you won't be able to use until 12 months later does it?

I'd rather put my money in that niche company than its competitors like Dell, HP, etc.

Not in the year between the original iPhone and the 3G, but it did finally improve enough to make a difference during the year between the 3G and the 3GS. For all the crap it got, I think Apple still beat AT&T's coverage to market for all but major cities.

I personally know of a few people that I've referred to WA and HoFo, and no one was interested in coming back to WA to talk about the iPhone. It's not very welcoming.

You're underestimating how many people are strangely willing to bail on a contract and get hit with an ETF (and are also probably the same people who have major credit debt). There's been a rush on iPhones every year even by the current owners on 2 year contracts...

I think the people that will actually jump are planning to jump ASAP. It's possible the iPhone 5 may be $249, making some consumers feel they got a deal by grabbing an iPhone 4 early. Lots of other things that could play out too to prevent people feeling like they got suckered in early.

Not sure if you saw Anandtech's write up: Understanding the Verizon iPhone 4 Announcement - AnandTech :: Your Source for Hardware Analysis and News

They confirmed that Apple actually used a diversity antenna system in accordance with VZW's requirements. They still saw about 20 dB attenuation, but that was in pretty good signal conditions, so I think the next debate will be how the diversity was implemented and when it "switches". I suspect it will be a non-issue on the VZW considering all the rumors of how much "help" Apple got from both VZW and Qualcomm.

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

You lost me, why would people have to wait 12 months? GSM/UMTS/CDMA "World" devices exists right now and there are Blackberry's on Verizon (and Sprint ) with it. I believe the DroidPro is also a World Phone

I believe you said that at least once before, I am sorry you feel that way. I read and enjoy reading all your posts and everyone else's post. This is not an anti-iPhone Forum, the only time there has been negative reaction is when an iPhone owner overlooks any shortcomings and insistes that the iPhone is the only way to go.

I feel Verizon got a better deal with Apple than at&t did, I think at&t was way too eager to become the iPhone exclusive.

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

I don't know much about CDMA, as I'm a GSM/UMTS guy, but why would a CDMA handset have different antenna requirements than a UMTS (WCDMA) handset? The advantage of 2 antennas is almost always used at the base station, either for space diversity (ie: put 2 antennas 5 yards or so, and the base-station can choose the better signal, or combine them), or polarization diversity, or (ok, here, read about diversity)...but none of these would really have an advantage in a handset because the 2 antennas would be literally right next to each other, or post-processing (like RAKE receivers) do basically the same thing without the need for more hardware. Or, if MIMO is used, then 2 antennas would be required, but CDMA does not use MIMO to the best of my knowledge.

The only reason CDMA may need 2 antennas, that I can think of, would be one for voice (CDMA) and one for data (EVDO). In which case, it's still really only "one" antenna, because it's not any kind of "double" or "redundant" antenna, but two separate ones. And "death-grip" would still apply I guess.

Apple's stock is phenomenal, it just keeps going up, it's like gold or something.

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

Oh, definitely it hurts that you can't get a "world" VZW iPhone in Feb. I was just referring to the first iPhone not having 3G, and the VZW iPhone not having LTE. Personally, I didn't get 3G coverage from AT&T in Middle GA until November 2009, so my iPhone 3G was almost 18 months old when it finally get 3G at home. I should have had 3 different phones in that time!

Regardless of CDMA, supposedly VZW requires diversity antennas to get through their stringent approval process. That was one of the VZW iPhone jokes early on, that there was no VZW iPhone because Apple couldn't build one good enough for VZW, which was followed by the suggestion that Apple was powerful enough to get an exception.

I think the requirement is older than the predominance of smartphones and even Bluetooth headsets. Could be another reason that VZW's network was seen as superior to AT&T's in so many areas.

As far as how its implemented in the mobile, I have no clue. It looks as though the "antennas" are the top and side, so probably polarization diversity. I thought it would help with the death grip, but if polarization can attenuate up to 34 dB according to Wiki, then it wouldn't help if you're covering the properly oriented antenna with 20+ dB of death grip... but then again, if you tilted the phone 45 degrees, you might still be in business. Even with that said, the SAR reports on the FCC sure look like all the death rays come from the center of the phone right below the Apple logo.

There were a few threads on HoFo I think, when the Droid first came out and advertised its diversity antenna system. Some tried to suggest that it was necessary for SV-DO, etc, but nothing from VZW about that, and I think the requirement is older than EV-DO. Some CDMA guys said it was standard fare for all CDMA phones though... curious why you'd need it for CDMAOne/CDMA2000, but not WCDMA?

You saw that Steve Job's reality distortion field, err, AAPL, dropped 5% in pre-market trading? Still down now, but not as much, and the earnings call is tonight.

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

At the great risk of this turning into another, once again, antenna thread...which I hope it doesn't.

Nearly every Motorola mobile phone has a 'dual diversity antenna' employed (it is pretty common knowledge), along with powerful algorithms that utilize them. You know...motorola that great company with decades of experience...:wink:

But they also can be affect by a 'death grip' (re: Droid X) as people show...and of about 15dB. Well, there is something to the fact that in field test mode, the meter reflects only raw signal , but not how the final RF is actually utilized...so...it doesn't mean that much, so... well that is all that confidentially agreements will allow me to say...

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

I too hope that this thread doesn't turn into another antenna thread, even though it looks like it is already headed in that direction. :O

I am curious as to what people you are referring to in regards to the Droid X "death grip" and the -15db signal loss?

Is there a link to this claim besides the bogus video that Apple posted (which has been proven wrong by the way)?

According to the article (see link below), to get the Droid X signal to drop, you have to hold the phone in an "awkward, two-handed grip." So maybe that is the aforementioned "death grip," but people do not hold their phones that way during normal everyday use.

Apple's Droid X 'Death Grip' Claim: Bogus | News & Opinion | PCMag.com

I too was unable to reproduce the "death grip" unless I was in a very weak signal area to begin with (i.e. 5-6 miles from a tower with a -105 db signal), and held my phone with two hands.

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

I agree with Gamer. Every phone can be susceptible to signal loss, that is not a question. Sure, you have to take 2 hands and cover the antenna on the Droid X (or just about any phone) for it to happen, but it happens. The difference is that on the iphone, you can create a total signal loss just by touching one small part of the antenna with a single finger. That is a problem. Hopefully they corrected that obvious design flaw in the CDMA version, but we will have to wait to see.

Maybe we should just all go back to external extending antennas?

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

I agree with you, Yankees368. I also hope that the AT&T iPhone 4 antenna flaw has been corrected.

Now, I will try to bring this thread back on topic.

It looks like Verizon is worried about shortages with the iPhone. This is to be expected, since there are shortages for most popular phones when they first come out:

Apple iPhone shortages may worry Verizon | FT tech hub | FTtechhub - Industry analysis

 

Re: 1/11/11: Verizon's Big Announcement

I can only say guys, just don't worry about it or get hot and bothered. The 'death grip' is not a normal hold. On the iphone, which is not what I was talking about, it only takes one finger: other than that...you can hold the iphone in any death grip you wish. The idea that the external antenna, in general, is the problem...is just plain bogus. period. Spread by people that have no real rf antenna design background.

The rf signal meter just doesn't tell the whole story....that is about all that I can say. get over it.