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bobolito · 07-31-2008, 5:56 PM

AT&T Says It Will Cut Off P2P Wireless Users; But What About Pandora Users?
from the be-careful-on-that-iPhone dept

While those who like to claim that the US broadband market is more competitive than it really is like to point to the rise of 3G wireless networks as proof, they almost always ignore the fact that those 3G networks come with insanely restrictive terms of service, that allow the providers to cut users off for almost any activity outside of email or web browsing. For example, using such a service for video and music has been prohibited in some terms of service. Sprint was the most open with their 3G wireless until recently.

Now AT&T is admitting that if it discovers users of its wireless broadband 3G service are making use of P2P apps, it will cut them off completely, and claims that it makes this clear in the terms of service. It hasn't happened yet, but this bit of data will supposedly be used by a dissenting FCC commissioner this week to show that Comcast's traffic shaping is pretty tame compared to other "rules" out there on network usage (ignoring the very different nature of the networks in question, of course).

This raises a number of questions: If AT&T's biggest concern about P2P file sharing apps is clogging its 3G wireless network, why does it allow streaming apps to run on the iPhone? For example, one of the most popular apps on the iPhone is Pandora, whose customized streaming radio offering is super popular (and appears to work quite well). So is AT&T going to cut off users of one of the most popular apps on the iPhone? And how will AT&T respond when someone (inevitably, if they haven't already done so) develops an iPhone app for P2P file sharing as well? This really just seems like AT&T slipping an excuse into the terms of service to cut off anyone they don't like -- but in the long run it may backfire as people get pissed off at AT&T for limiting what new devices like the iPhone can do.

Techdirt: AT&T Says It Will Cut Off P2P Wireless Users; But What About Pandora Users?

http://www.ipdemocracy.com/archives/..._p2p_users.php

bobolito · 07-31-2008, 6:03 PM

Now this I have to agree with AT&T. Using P2P on 3G broadband is just abusive. Pandora is barely a small pinch compared to P2P. There's just no comparison. Now seriously, why not just use your home broadband connection for P2P? We have to understand the limits of 3G networks. 3G is not substitute for cable or DSL. The purpose of a mobile 3G connection is to have low bandwidth apps such as audio streaming and for quick file transfers, chat or web browsing, not to spend hours downloading large files at full speed.

Mobile Mike · 07-31-2008, 6:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobolito

Now this I have to agree with AT&T. Using P2P on 3G broadband is just abusive. Pandora is barely a small pinch compared to P2P. There's just no comparison. Now seriously, why not just use your home broadband connection for P2P? We have to understand the limits of 3G networks. 3G is not substitute for cable or DSL. The purpose of a mobile 3G connection is to have low bandwidth apps such as audio streaming and for quick file transfers, chat or web browsing, not to spend hours downloading large files at full speed.

The sad part is there are people out there who exploit anything and everything they can at the expense of those who follow the rules and don't take advantage of things.

Now AT&T is laying down the law on P2P and any other 3G bandwidth-draining applications/processes, it will be interesting to see whose really affecting by their policing.

Ddeere2 · 07-31-2008, 10:28 PM

This good AT&T is doing this. Itsl like bob said, its a wireless connection, thats why you have a home connection. One thing I don't get, is how will they be able to tell besides the abnormal usage of dl and ul?

bobolito · 08-01-2008, 1:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ddeere2

This good AT&T is doing this. Itsl like bob said, its a wireless connection, thats why you have a home connection. One thing I don't get, is how will they be able to tell besides the abnormal usage of dl and ul?

With packet analyzers it's very easy to tell what's going on in your network and who's doing it.

Ddeere2 · 08-01-2008, 1:34 AM

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. But they better becareful with that. Wasn't it Comcast that used deep packet scanning hardware then started to forge TCP packets that helped lead them to their current bad press.

RadioRaiders · 08-01-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ddeere2

One thing I don't get, is how will they be able to tell besides the abnormal usage of dl and ul?

New switches can be configured to detect and block P2P traffic behavior automatically.

RadioFoneGuy · 08-02-2008, 12:51 AM

You can tell by the ports that are using the bandwidth. Most P2P programs dont use the same port that is used by HTTP. Seems like most use between 2-4 ports.

SmArTeStChIlD421 · 08-08-2008, 9:09 AM

and keep in mind that serious P2P users generate a lot of traffic so of course they won't be screening everyone......that would just require too much processing power but they will watch data usage......especially upload I can imagine because if you're sharing your library you're uploading as much as you're downloading......

when they flag your account for obnoxious data usage then they'll snoop into what you're doing

YourDream84 · 08-08-2008, 12:21 PM

Does this include air cards? I don't have an AT&T card, but I do have a wireless card from another provider, and it is my ONLY means of internet connection.

I don't have a "home" connection persay, as my "home" is a semi truck...

~*Ash*~

Jay2TheRescue · 08-08-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YourDream84

Does this include air cards? I don't have an AT&T card, but I do have a wireless card from another provider, and it is my ONLY means of internet connection.

I don't have a "home" connection persay, as my "home" is a semi truck...

~*Ash*~

Are you downloading torrents @ 75 MPH?

-Jay

SmArTeStChIlD421 · 08-11-2008, 4:13 AM

most companies do cap and if they don't they tend to notice if there is a seruious amount of trffic is being generated

EDIT: out of curiosity.....what company is your air card on???

YourDream84 · 08-11-2008, 8:27 AM

Torrents at 75mph.. Possibly...

The card is through Verizon.

~*Ash*~

SmArTeStChIlD421 · 08-11-2008, 8:57 AM

oh well then you re kinda screwed. if you maybe go over 5GB/ month slightly they may not care but I think if you do over 5GB/month many months in a row and it's drastic you will attract attention.....and of all carriers AT&T and Verizon would be the ones to be hard

es about it

Jay2TheRescue · 08-11-2008, 9:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YourDream84

Torrents at 75mph.. Possibly...

The card is through Verizon.

~*Ash*~

If I may recommend "Buick Electra" by Black Helicopter...

-Jay

07-31-2008, 5:56 PM	#1 (permalink)
bobolito iPhone 3G 16GB (White) Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Sanfrakota Posts: 12,364 Phone(s): iPhone 3G, RAZR V9, Sierra 875 3G Aircard, HP iPaq Classic 110 Provider(s): AT&T Mobility Devices: WiFi cards/Access points Thanks: 3 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts Images: 50 My Auctions	AT&T to cut off wireless 3G users on P2P AT&T Says It Will Cut Off P2P Wireless Users; But What About Pandora Users? from the be-careful-on-that-iPhone dept While those who like to claim that the US broadband market is more competitive than it really is like to point to the rise of 3G wireless networks as proof, they almost always ignore the fact that those 3G networks come with insanely restrictive terms of service, that allow the providers to cut users off for almost any activity outside of email or web browsing. For example, using such a service for video and music has been prohibited in some terms of service. Sprint was the most open with their 3G wireless until recently. Now AT&T is admitting that if it discovers users of its wireless broadband 3G service are making use of P2P apps, it will cut them off completely, and claims that it makes this clear in the terms of service. It hasn't happened yet, but this bit of data will supposedly be used by a dissenting FCC commissioner this week to show that Comcast's traffic shaping is pretty tame compared to other "rules" out there on network usage (ignoring the very different nature of the networks in question, of course). This raises a number of questions: If AT&T's biggest concern about P2P file sharing apps is clogging its 3G wireless network, why does it allow streaming apps to run on the iPhone? For example, one of the most popular apps on the iPhone is Pandora, whose customized streaming radio offering is super popular (and appears to work quite well). So is AT&T going to cut off users of one of the most popular apps on the iPhone? And how will AT&T respond when someone (inevitably, if they haven't already done so) develops an iPhone app for P2P file sharing as well? This really just seems like AT&T slipping an excuse into the terms of service to cut off anyone they don't like -- but in the long run it may backfire as people get pissed off at AT&T for limiting what new devices like the iPhone can do. Techdirt: AT&T Says It Will Cut Off P2P Wireless Users; But What About Pandora Users? http://www.ipdemocracy.com/archives/..._p2p_users.php __________________

07-31-2008, 6:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
bobolito iPhone 3G 16GB (White) Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Sanfrakota Posts: 12,364 Phone(s): iPhone 3G, RAZR V9, Sierra 875 3G Aircard, HP iPaq Classic 110 Provider(s): AT&T Mobility Devices: WiFi cards/Access points Thanks: 3 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts Images: 50 My Auctions	Re: AT&T to cut off wireless 3G users on P2P Now this I have to agree with AT&T. Using P2P on 3G broadband is just abusive. Pandora is barely a small pinch compared to P2P. There's just no comparison. Now seriously, why not just use your home broadband connection for P2P? We have to understand the limits of 3G networks. 3G is not substitute for cable or DSL. The purpose of a mobile 3G connection is to have low bandwidth apps such as audio streaming and for quick file transfers, chat or web browsing, not to spend hours downloading large files at full speed. __________________

07-31-2008, 10:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
Ddeere2 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Laredo, Texas Posts: 386 Phone(s): Blackberry 8100 Pearl, Motorola Razr 2 V9, Nokia N75, LG C2000 Provider(s): AT&T Devices: XPS 1530 and a 80 gb iPod Classic Thanks: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: AT&T to cut off wireless 3G users on P2P This good AT&T is doing this. Itsl like bob said, its a wireless connection, thats why you have a home connection. One thing I don't get, is how will they be able to tell besides the abnormal usage of dl and ul? __________________ "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through walls topped by barbed wire; it wafts across the electrified borders." -Ronald Reagan

08-01-2008, 1:34 AM	#6 (permalink)
Ddeere2 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Laredo, Texas Posts: 386 Phone(s): Blackberry 8100 Pearl, Motorola Razr 2 V9, Nokia N75, LG C2000 Provider(s): AT&T Devices: XPS 1530 and a 80 gb iPod Classic Thanks: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: AT&T to cut off wireless 3G users on P2P Oh yeah, I forgot about that. But they better becareful with that. Wasn't it Comcast that used deep packet scanning hardware then started to forge TCP packets that helped lead them to their current bad press. __________________ "Information is the oxygen of the modern age. It seeps through walls topped by barbed wire; it wafts across the electrified borders." -Ronald Reagan

08-02-2008, 12:51 AM	#8 (permalink)
RadioFoneGuy Pimpin the Tilt! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Everywhere. Posts: 1,183 Phone(s): Nokia 6103, 6010, 2260, HTC TILT, moto V400, 55, Nokia 6682, 6085, to many phones Provider(s): The death star formally known as Cell One. Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Images: 6	Re: AT&T to cut off wireless 3G users on P2P You can tell by the ports that are using the bandwidth. Most P2P programs dont use the same port that is used by HTTP. Seems like most use between 2-4 ports. __________________ Cellular One of Georgia 1994-96 ATTWS 1999-2003 and VoiceStream 2001-2003 Cellular One from Dobson Cellular 2003-2007 AT&T JR 2008 to Present.

08-08-2008, 9:09 AM	#9 (permalink)
SmArTeStChIlD421 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 3,639 Phone(s): Motorola RAZR V3m (Red) Provider(s): Sprint Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: AT&T to cut off wireless 3G users on P2P and keep in mind that serious P2P users generate a lot of traffic so of course they won't be screening everyone......that would just require too much processing power but they will watch data usage......especially upload I can imagine because if you're sharing your library you're uploading as much as you're downloading...... when they flag your account for obnoxious data usage then they'll snoop into what you're doing __________________ SERO F&F 500: 500 Flexible Anytime Minutes, UNLIMITED Nights and Weekends (7PM), UNLIMITED Mobile to Mobile, UNLIMITED Power Vision, UNLIMITED Messaging (Text/Picture/Video), Pick 3

08-08-2008, 12:21 PM	#10 (permalink)
YourDream84 Playing with my iPhone... Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tahlequah, OK Posts: 849 Phone(s): iPhone 3G, Razr V3xx Provider(s): Cingular (The New AT&T) Devices: 60gb Apple Ipod Video 5th Generation Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: AT&T to cut off wireless 3G users on P2P Does this include air cards? I don't have an AT&T card, but I do have a wireless card from another provider, and it is my ONLY means of internet connection. I don't have a "home" connection persay, as my "home" is a semi truck... ~Ash~ __________________ "The world may be ready for a black president, but they are NOT ready for 'The Hoff' without a tan." ~Chelsea Handler (From Chelsea Lately on E!)

08-11-2008, 4:13 AM	#12 (permalink)
SmArTeStChIlD421 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 3,639 Phone(s): Motorola RAZR V3m (Red) Provider(s): Sprint Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: AT&T to cut off wireless 3G users on P2P most companies do cap and if they don't they tend to notice if there is a seruious amount of trffic is being generated EDIT: out of curiosity.....what company is your air card on??? __________________ SERO F&F 500: 500 Flexible Anytime Minutes, UNLIMITED Nights and Weekends (7PM), UNLIMITED Mobile to Mobile, UNLIMITED Power Vision, UNLIMITED Messaging (Text/Picture/Video), Pick 3

08-11-2008, 8:27 AM	#13 (permalink)
YourDream84 Playing with my iPhone... Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tahlequah, OK Posts: 849 Phone(s): iPhone 3G, Razr V3xx Provider(s): Cingular (The New AT&T) Devices: 60gb Apple Ipod Video 5th Generation Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: AT&T to cut off wireless 3G users on P2P Torrents at 75mph.. Possibly... The card is through Verizon. ~Ash~ __________________ "The world may be ready for a black president, but they are NOT ready for 'The Hoff' without a tan." ~Chelsea Handler (From Chelsea Lately on E!)

08-11-2008, 8:57 AM	#14 (permalink)
SmArTeStChIlD421 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 3,639 Phone(s): Motorola RAZR V3m (Red) Provider(s): Sprint Thanks: 4 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: AT&T to cut off wireless 3G users on P2P oh well then you re kinda screwed. if you maybe go over 5GB/ month slightly they may not care but I think if you do over 5GB/month many months in a row and it's drastic you will attract attention.....and of all carriers AT&T and Verizon would be the ones to be hardes about it

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