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Barciurek · 07-04-2008, 6:05 PM

Hi
I was wondering.. does anyone know why does Europe have GSM and not CDMA? CDMA seems to be less popular around the world opposed to GSM... like Australia has turned off their CDMA and is now GSM only.

So why is that?

KyleAndMelissa22 · 07-04-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barciurek

Hi
I was wondering.. does anyone know why does Europe have GSM and not CDMA? CDMA seems to be less popular around the world opposed to GSM... like Australia has turned off their CDMA and is now GSM only.

So why is that?

They don't know any better...

I think CDMA is illegal in most of Europe, outlawed by the government.
CDMA is like a bomb to them, you can't own or use that technology.

I'd just like to see some more CDMA/GSM hybrid phones.

hillbilly44 · 07-04-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barciurek

Hi
I was wondering.. does anyone know why does Europe have GSM and not CDMA? CDMA seems to be less popular around the world opposed to GSM... like Australia has turned off their CDMA and is now GSM only.

So why is that?

The reason why is because all the countries in the EU settled on a Standard that all the equipment vendors in Europe could live with (Nokia, Ericsson, Alcatel, Matra/Nortel). Also at the time GSM was much farther ahead in development (it was developed in the early 90's) and no one even knew if CDMA would even work.

Barciurek · 07-04-2008, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleAndMelissa22

They don't know any better...

I think CDMA is illegal in most of Europe, outlawed by the government.
CDMA is like a bomb to them, you can't own or use that technology.

I'd just like to see some more CDMA/GSM hybrid phones.

where did you get that information?
especially having UMTS which is WCDMA

KyleAndMelissa22 · 07-04-2008, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barciurek

where did you get that information?
especially having UMTS which is WCDMA

I've read about the CDMA technology on various websites,
like CDMA Development Group, Wikipedia & Mountain Wireless

Not sure the exact website URL right now,
but there are many threads on WA that also explain that CDMA is against the law in most of the European Union.

Barciurek · 07-05-2008, 12:59 AM

Weird as I've never seen anything about CDMA being illegal in the EU.. There is even CDMA working, for example in Poland there is a landline CDMA system called "Sferia"

In March they have launched a hi-speed internet access (up to 2,7 Mbps) on EV-DO.

spleck · 07-05-2008, 1:14 AM

The GSM standard was first published in 1990 based on a resolution by European nations to create a standard for mobile phones. CDMAone was first standardized in 1995. That's the first answer.

Remember though that CDMAone/CDMA2000 are the standards like GSM, while CDMA and TDMA are the air interfaces.

GSM could have gone with a CDMA air interface. CDMA was used in GPS way before mobile phones. It was known that a CDMA system would theoretically have a larger capacity and resistance to noise and interference, but the implementation was difficult. TDMA could be implemented cheaper, smaller, and faster--especially with 1980s technology when they were developing the standard. Ease of implementation is answer number 2.

I believe that Qualcomm had patents for some of the critical techniques even before CDMAone was standardsized, so that would be reason number 3.

It's not that CDMA is outlawed in Europe, its that GSM was mandated by law. Wikipedia mentions a memorandum of understanding by 13 original countries. I'm not sure, but its likely that those 13 countries created legislature to back the international agreement.

RadioRaiders · 07-05-2008, 3:45 AM

The reason Europe is "only" GSM is because the goverments realized early on that it would be anarchy if each country had it's own technology, and all the countries agreed to conform to one technology for the sake of cohesiveness, so you could drive from Spain to Finland and not have to stop and buy a new phone with a different technology in every country. Call it "European socialism" but GSM was forced on everyone.

In the USA, then "free market" was left to decide what technology would win and which would lose. It seems GSM and CDMA both came out pretty much equal. Which you could say is bad in a way for consumers, because having 2 dominant technologies creates confusion (ie: how many people ask "can I use my Sprint phone with AT&T? No? Why not?)

For the history of GSM here's a timeline:
GSM World - GSMA History

PS- CDMA came later to Europe, and mostly in East Europe. But it's a very, very small presence. Alot of people don't even know it exists.
PPS- WCDMA (UMTS) is the successor of GSM, and is also based on CDMA, but used in a different way and not patented by Qualcom (as CDMA is).

RadioFoneGuy · 07-05-2008, 9:53 AM

The had us beat by years here, they ditched their Analog in the early 90's. Here it is over 17 years after Europe ditched analog and we still dont have compatible standards in the US.

Its kinda funny really that they took the American Standard TDMA made it better 8 timeslots versus TDMA's 3 and put GSM into use in the early 90's and in the US alot of carriers didnt use the TDMA standard until the mid to late 90's.

TDMA also was re-created in Nextels iDEN as well as resurrected in EV-DO

scotsboyuk · 07-05-2008, 2:52 PM

I often see mention of CDMA being illegal in Europe, but that is not the case, as others have pointed out. There are CDMA networks in Europe although they tend not to be very big and some are used for providing internet access to remote regions rather than for mobile networks.

Certain frequency bands are mandated for certain technologies in the UK e.g. 900 and 1800 MHz are only to be sued for GSM networks. Perhaps that is where the confusion comes from as one wouldn't be allowed to create a CDMA network using those frequencies although one could, in theory, create a CDMA network using a different frequency band assuming one had a license to do so.

It's also worth pointing out that there is no one body that makes rules for all of Europe. The EU doesn't cover all of Europe, and it is up to individual nations to decide what they will do with their telecoms infrastructure.

scotsboyuk · 07-05-2008, 2:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioRaiders

In the USA, then "free market" was left to decide what technology would win and which would lose. It seems GSM and CDMA both came out pretty much equal. Which you could say is bad in a way for consumers, because having 2 dominant technologies creates confusion (ie: how many people ask "can I use my Sprint phone with AT&T? No? Why not?).

I agree. To me the choice between network standards is largely irrelevant to consumers. As far as I can see most consumers care about how much their service will cost; if it will do what they want it to do, and if it is reliable. What technology is being used, whether it be CDMA, GSM, HSDPA or two tin cans on a string doesn't appear to be a major factor.

spleck · 07-05-2008, 3:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioRaiders

PPS- WCDMA (UMTS) is the successor of GSM, and is also based on CDMA, but used in a different way and not patented by Qualcom (as CDMA is).

Qualcomm does have patents that affect UMTS running on WCDMA. They may even have some that affect OFDMA in 4G UMTS (LTE).

Telekom · 07-05-2008, 5:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barciurek

Hi
I was wondering.. does anyone know why does Europe have GSM and not CDMA? CDMA seems to be less popular around the world opposed to GSM... like Australia has turned off their CDMA and is now GSM only.

So why is that?

"In 1982, the European Conference of Postal and Telecommunications Administrations (CEPT) created the Groupe Spécial Mobile (GSM) to develop a standard for a mobile telephone system that could be used across Europe.[6] In 1987, a memorandum of understanding was signed by 13 countries to develop a common cellular telephone system across Europe."

See: GSM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically it was a mandate by the EU to have an EU-wide standard that would work seamlessly across the whole of the EU. GSM was that answer. Other countries in the world saw the success of GSM in Europe and decided to adopt the standard in those non-European countries. If you read the wikipedia article above it will give you some information on what has happened and what's happening with GSM.

Telekom · 07-05-2008, 5:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleAndMelissa22

I've read about the CDMA technology on various websites,
like CDMA Development Group, Wikipedia & Mountain Wireless

Not sure the exact website URL right now,
but there are many threads on WA that also explain that CDMA is against the law in most of the European Union.

How about a link to something official saying CDMA is illegal in Europe. A WA thread is not proof.

Barciurek · 07-05-2008, 5:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telekom

How about a link to something official saying CDMA is illegal in Europe. A WA thread is not proof.

Exactly. I've never heard of anything saying that CDMA is illegal.. and I don't see any reasons.

spleck · 07-05-2008, 6:26 PM

Each country used their own legislation to conform to the memorandum of understanding. Some of them most likely required GSM only, hence CDMA would be "illegal". Others simply specified that GSM be used on certain frequencies. That's where the rumors probably started. Much like in the US, blocks of the spectrum are designated for certain services.

KyleAndMelissa22 · 07-05-2008, 7:18 PM

IFAST International SID Ranges (Country Sort) lists all allocated CDMA SIDs for each country,
but somewhere on the site it explains that not every county uses their allocated SIDs.

Most countries (even most in Europe) have CDMA SIDS assigned to them,
but the only CDMA used in Europe is in some parts of Eastern Europe on the 450 Mhz bands.
(900 & 1800 bands are required to be GSM - so CDMA is illegal in these bands in most of Europe....)

Why allocate CDMA SIDs for counries that will never use the CDMA technology?

Telekom · 07-05-2008, 8:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleAndMelissa22

IFAST International SID Ranges (Country Sort) lists all allocated CDMA SIDs for each country,
but somewhere on the site it explains that not every county uses their allocated SIDs.

Most countries (even most in Europe) have CDMA SIDS assigned to them,
but the only CDMA used in Europe is in some parts of Eastern Europe on the 450 Mhz bands.
(900 & 1800 bands are required to be GSM - so CDMA is illegal in these bands in most of Europe....)

Why allocate CDMA SIDs for counries that will never use the CDMA technology?

Is that your understanding that CDMA is illegal or are you just making some assumption? How about a reference that we can see that it's illegal?

KyleAndMelissa22 · 07-05-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telekom

Is that your understanding that CDMA is illegal or are you just making some assumption? How about a reference that we can see that it's illegal?

No I didn't assume it wasn't 100% illegal,
it's just that GSM is required by law in Western Europe,
so thats like another way of saying CDMA is illegal,
because the allocated bands don't allow it. (Only on 450 MHZ in Eastern Europe.)

here's one ref with the same info:

http://forums.wirelessadvisor.com/wi...tml#post380922

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strunke

CDMA may shrink in india, but it will always be around in the US.
It's like using kilometers instead of miles. CDMA is a very good technology,
The fact that it is outlawed in the E.U. just demonstrates how superior it can be.
Add to that the fact that European people in general have an underlying desire to be
different from the United States in anyway they can,
you now have GSM, an inferior technology in everything but voice fidelity, dominating the market.

07-04-2008, 6:05 PM	#1 (permalink)
Barciurek Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 171 Phone(s): Nokia 5300, Nokia 6030 Provider(s): T-Mobile Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts My Auctions	why did europe have GSM only Hi I was wondering.. does anyone know why does Europe have GSM and not CDMA? CDMA seems to be less popular around the world opposed to GSM... like Australia has turned off their CDMA and is now GSM only. So why is that? __________________ http://img.userbars.pl/19/3735.jpg

07-05-2008, 12:59 AM	#6 (permalink)
Barciurek Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 171 Phone(s): Nokia 5300, Nokia 6030 Provider(s): T-Mobile Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts My Auctions	Re: why did europe have GSM only Weird as I've never seen anything about CDMA being illegal in the EU.. There is even CDMA working, for example in Poland there is a landline CDMA system called "Sferia" In March they have launched a hi-speed internet access (up to 2,7 Mbps) on EV-DO.

07-05-2008, 1:14 AM	#7 (permalink)
spleck Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle GA Posts: 478 Phone(s): iPhone 3G, T-Mobile Wing Provider(s): AT&T, T-Mobile Devices: Garmin GPSMAP 76CSx, Canon EOS Rebel XTi Thanks: 8 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: why did europe have GSM only The GSM standard was first published in 1990 based on a resolution by European nations to create a standard for mobile phones. CDMAone was first standardized in 1995. That's the first answer. Remember though that CDMAone/CDMA2000 are the standards like GSM, while CDMA and TDMA are the air interfaces. GSM could have gone with a CDMA air interface. CDMA was used in GPS way before mobile phones. It was known that a CDMA system would theoretically have a larger capacity and resistance to noise and interference, but the implementation was difficult. TDMA could be implemented cheaper, smaller, and faster--especially with 1980s technology when they were developing the standard. Ease of implementation is answer number 2. I believe that Qualcomm had patents for some of the critical techniques even before CDMAone was standardsized, so that would be reason number 3. It's not that CDMA is outlawed in Europe, its that GSM was mandated by law. Wikipedia mentions a memorandum of understanding by 13 original countries. I'm not sure, but its likely that those 13 countries created legislature to back the international agreement.

07-05-2008, 3:45 AM	#8 (permalink)
RadioRaiders Now with bronze flavor Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Undisclosed Posts: 859 Provider(s): GSM / WCDMA Thanks: 2 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Re: why did europe have GSM only The reason Europe is "only" GSM is because the goverments realized early on that it would be anarchy if each country had it's own technology, and all the countries agreed to conform to one technology for the sake of cohesiveness, so you could drive from Spain to Finland and not have to stop and buy a new phone with a different technology in every country. Call it "European socialism" but GSM was forced on everyone. In the USA, then "free market" was left to decide what technology would win and which would lose. It seems GSM and CDMA both came out pretty much equal. Which you could say is bad in a way for consumers, because having 2 dominant technologies creates confusion (ie: how many people ask "can I use my Sprint phone with AT&T? No? Why not?) For the history of GSM here's a timeline: GSM World - GSMA History PS- CDMA came later to Europe, and mostly in East Europe. But it's a very, very small presence. Alot of people don't even know it exists. PPS- WCDMA (UMTS) is the successor of GSM, and is also based on CDMA, but used in a different way and not patented by Qualcom (as CDMA is). __________________ Full system check: IP address, location map, browser info, port scan and traceroute: Visit: Radio Raiders System Check Please leave feedback: here

07-05-2008, 9:53 AM	#9 (permalink)
RadioFoneGuy Pimpin the Tilt! Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Everywhere. Posts: 1,143 Phone(s): Nokia 6103, 6010, 2260, HTC TILT, moto V400, 55, Nokia 6682, 6085, to many phones Provider(s): The death star formally known as Cell One. Thanks: 3 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: why did europe have GSM only The had us beat by years here, they ditched their Analog in the early 90's. Here it is over 17 years after Europe ditched analog and we still dont have compatible standards in the US. Its kinda funny really that they took the American Standard TDMA made it better 8 timeslots versus TDMA's 3 and put GSM into use in the early 90's and in the US alot of carriers didnt use the TDMA standard until the mid to late 90's. TDMA also was re-created in Nextels iDEN as well as resurrected in EV-DO __________________ Cellular One of Georgia 1994-96 ATTWS 1999-2003 and VoiceStream 2001-2003 Cellular One from Dobson Cellular 2003-2007 AT&T JR 2008 to Present.

07-05-2008, 2:52 PM	#10 (permalink)
scotsboyuk Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Blighty Posts: 625 Phone(s): N95, W850, MDA Vario, K800 Provider(s): Orange, T-Mobile Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: why did europe have GSM only I often see mention of CDMA being illegal in Europe, but that is not the case, as others have pointed out. There are CDMA networks in Europe although they tend not to be very big and some are used for providing internet access to remote regions rather than for mobile networks. Certain frequency bands are mandated for certain technologies in the UK e.g. 900 and 1800 MHz are only to be sued for GSM networks. Perhaps that is where the confusion comes from as one wouldn't be allowed to create a CDMA network using those frequencies although one could, in theory, create a CDMA network using a different frequency band assuming one had a license to do so. It's also worth pointing out that there is no one body that makes rules for all of Europe. The EU doesn't cover all of Europe, and it is up to individual nations to decide what they will do with their telecoms infrastructure. __________________ "I may be drunk my dear woman, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly." WSC

07-05-2008, 6:26 PM	#16 (permalink)
spleck Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle GA Posts: 478 Phone(s): iPhone 3G, T-Mobile Wing Provider(s): AT&T, T-Mobile Devices: Garmin GPSMAP 76CSx, Canon EOS Rebel XTi Thanks: 8 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Re: why did europe have GSM only Each country used their own legislation to conform to the memorandum of understanding. Some of them most likely required GSM only, hence CDMA would be "illegal". Others simply specified that GSM be used on certain frequencies. That's where the rumors probably started. Much like in the US, blocks of the spectrum are designated for certain services.

07-05-2008, 7:18 PM	#17 (permalink)
KyleAndMelissa22 Listen To WNKS Charlotte Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: GAFFNEY, SC (FORMERLY NJ) Posts: 928 Phone(s): LG AX4270 Provider(s): ALLTEL - SID 114 (Near 116 Border). Devices: Grundig S350DL, Nikon CoolPix, PRO-89 Scanner Thanks: 19 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts My Auctions	Re: why did europe have GSM only IFAST International SID Ranges (Country Sort) lists all allocated CDMA SIDs for each country, but somewhere on the site it explains that not every county uses their allocated SIDs. Most countries (even most in Europe) have CDMA SIDS assigned to them, but the only CDMA used in Europe is in some parts of Eastern Europe on the 450 Mhz bands. (900 & 1800 bands are required to be GSM - so CDMA is illegal in these bands in most of Europe....) Why allocate CDMA SIDs for counries that will never use the CDMA technology?

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