WirelessAdvisor.com

RadioRaiders · 06-01-2008, 5:35 AM

I'm currently making some HSDPA testing using USB dongles, such as the Novatel MC950D:
Ovation™ MC950D USB Modem

In the past I made tests with Sierra Wireless PCMCIA cards and Qualcom phones. All seem to work fine and give good thruput. I was just curious if anyone had and good/bad experiences when connecting a laptop to a USB dongle, PCMCIA card or phone? Did anyone notice better/worse performance with one type of device compare to another?

Theoretically, I think they should all be fine, just wondering if there was anything I was missing.

Jay2TheRescue · 06-01-2008, 12:10 PM

I don't know if this helps you or not, but I have teathered my Tilt to my laptop in several methods.

The fastest connection I get is teathering over WiFi. (Fastest achieved 1750 down/300 up)
USB is a little slower than WiFi. (Fastest achieved 1600 down/300 up)
Bluetooth is the slowest. (Fastest achieved 1300 down/300 up) (Most often when teathering by BT I only get about 900 down though)

-Jay

~~RJB~~ · 06-01-2008, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

I don't know if this helps you or not, but I have teathered my Tilt to my laptop in several methods.

The fastest connection I get is teathering over WiFi. (Fastest achieved 1750 up/300 down)
USB is a little slower than WiFi. (Fastest achieved 1600 up/300 down)
Bluetooth is the slowest. (Fastest achieved 1300 up/300 down) (Most often when teathering by BT I only get about 900 up though)

-Jay

Still though those are not bad numbers!

Jay2TheRescue · 06-01-2008, 1:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RJB

Still though those are not bad numbers!

OOPS! I just realized I got my ups & downs reversed.. the 300k's are up...

-Jay

RadioRaiders · 06-01-2008, 1:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

I don't know if this helps you or not, but I have teathered my Tilt to my laptop in several methods.

The fastest connection I get is teathering over WiFi. (Fastest achieved 1750 up/300 down)
USB is a little slower than WiFi. (Fastest achieved 1600 up/300 down)
Bluetooth is the slowest. (Fastest achieved 1300 up/300 down) (Most often when teathering by BT I only get about 900 up though)

-Jay

Thanks for the feedback Jay (But as I read it you have a faster UL than DL. I'll assume you meant for the up/down reversed?)

I'm curious why you have a faster connection over WiFi than USB?

How are you measuring it? If it's on the port thruput, then maybe the extra ~150kbps you measure with wifi is actually wifi overhead bits, and your application thruput is still the same?

walkguru · 06-01-2008, 1:26 PM

Wirelessly posted (Walkguru's: Opera/9.50 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/4.1.11328/308; U; en))

the bt that i used was not that bad. but the wifi at the library was really fast.

Jay2TheRescue · 06-01-2008, 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioRaiders

Thanks for the feedback Jay (But as I read it you have a faster UL than DL. I'll assume you meant for the up/down reversed?)

I'm curious why you have a faster connection over WiFi than USB?

How are you measuring it? If it's on the port thruput, then maybe the extra ~150kbps you measure with wifi is actually wifi overhead bits, and your application thruput is still the same?

Yes, they were backwards. Look at the post I made right before yours... Anyway I would initiate the connection, and then do a test at speedtest.net. I figure that's an actual measurement of what's going on.

-Jay

COtech · 06-01-2008, 2:30 PM

One useful option that the USB aircard has versus a PCbus or PCMCIA aircard is that it doesn't have to be plugged in directly--you can add an extension USB cable. You can elevate the USB aircard, or put it on a window sill, or something else.

COtech

RadioRaiders · 06-01-2008, 3:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

I would initiate the connection, and then do a test at speedtest.net. I figure that's an actual measurement of what's going on.

Ok, that should be application level then and shouldn't include any wifi overhead. Strange why wifi gives a little faster than USB tho? Is it always like that?

I don't really know how reliable those speed-test things are tho. I prefer tho download a local FTP file and use a port thruput monitor like NetPerSec;

www.radioraiders.com/NetPerSec.zip

Quote:

Originally Posted by COtech

One useful option that the USB aircard has versus a PCbus or PCMCIA aircard is that it doesn't have to be plugged in directly--you can add an extension USB cable. You can elevate the USB aircard, or put it on a window sill, or something else.

COtech

Yea, that's a good point. Some phones/PCMCIA cards have connections for external antennas, but not all. With a USB dongle you know for sure you can buy an extension cable and have some flexability with the location

Jay2TheRescue · 06-01-2008, 3:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadioRaiders

Ok, that should be application level then and shouldn't include any wifi overhead. Strange why wifi gives a little faster than USB tho? Is it always like that?

I don't really know how reliable those speed-test things are tho. I prefer tho download a local FTP file and use a port thruput monitor like NetPerSec;

www.radioraiders.com/NetPerSec.zip

Yea, that's a good point. Some phones/PCMCIA cards have connections for external antennas, but not all. With a USB dongle you know for sure you can buy an extension cable and have some flexability with the location

Yeah, WiFi is always about 100-150K faster for some reason.

-Jay

Ddeere2 · 06-02-2008, 1:51 PM

Wow, that's good to know, I'll go with a USB modem when they turn on the 3G here in my town. You would think that over USB it would be the fastest though.

Jay2TheRescue · 06-02-2008, 2:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ddeere2

Wow, that's good to know, I'll go with a USB modem when they turn on the 3G here in my town. You would think that over USB it would be the fastest though.

Another nice thing about USB is that it can be easily moved from computer to computer as needed. You can take it off your laptop, and use it on your desktop at home if your DSL goes down.

-Jay

RadioRaiders · 06-02-2008, 3:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ddeere2

Wow, that's good to know, I'll go with a USB modem when they turn on the 3G here in my town. You would think that over USB it would be the fastest though.

Yea, I'm also a little baffeled by Jay's results, I also think a USB connection should be faster than WiFi

There must be a reason, but I can't think of any right now

*EDIT* If anyone else has time, it would be great if someone else can make the same test to see if they experience the same results (ie: faster HSDPA speedby by teathering on Wifi than compared to USB). I'm still thinking it's somehow an overhead issue with wifi that makes it appear faster...but not really sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

Another nice thing about USB is that it can be easily moved from computer to computer as needed. You can take it off your laptop, and use it on your desktop at home if your DSL goes down.

-Jay

Yea, portability is a very good point. Most operators were first offering Sierra Wireless PCMCIA cards a few years ago, but now all seemed to favor USB, and probably for the issue of portability (as desktops don't have PCMCIA slots).

bobolito · 06-03-2008, 4:59 PM

I have tried three methods and all are pretty consistent to technical expectations:

- RAZR2 V9 to Laptop via USB cable: 1.7mbps/350kbps
- RAZR2 V9 to Laptop via Bluetooth: 600kbps/300kbps
- Sierra 875 PCMCIA Aircard: 1.5mbps/380kbps

I am also surprised Jay went over 720kbps on a Bluetooth connection which is the theoretical maximum for Bluetooth. So in reality, Bluetooth places a bottleneck on your 3G connection.

Jay2TheRescue · 06-03-2008, 6:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobolito

I have tried three methods and all are pretty consistent to technical expectations:

- RAZR2 V9 to Laptop via USB cable: 1.7mbps/350kbps
- RAZR2 V9 to Laptop via Bluetooth: 600kbps/300kbps
- Sierra 875 PCMCIA Aircard: 1.5mbps/380kbps

I am also surprised Jay went over 720kbps on a Bluetooth connection which is the theoretical maximum for Bluetooth. So in reality, Bluetooth places a bottleneck on your 3G connection.

I guess the network is really busy right now... but here are my results that I have right now... The phone and laptop are in the exact same positions, and I am showing 3 bars of service on the Tilt...

USB:

Bluetooth:

Sorry, but I'm not currently setup to teather over WiFi... I can't retest that right now.

-Jay

dmapr · 06-03-2008, 9:19 PM

I haven't tried BT with my K850i, but the USB connection was about the same as Bobolito's:

Eric47 · 06-03-2008, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by COtech

One useful option that the USB aircard has versus a PCbus or PCMCIA aircard is that it doesn't have to be plugged in directly--you can add an extension USB cable. You can elevate the USB aircard, or put it on a window sill, or something else.

COtech

yes good point but remember that USB cables will lose effectiveness and possible stop working past a certain length. i believe 5FT is the longest you usually can find though i have seen longer i dont know it they are recommended or custom or what.

wirelessisland · 07-02-2008, 3:59 PM

Transmitting over wifi is definitely the most convenient but I just got the new Sierra Wireless 881U card that seems to be around 30% faster than the 875u or Razr V9 tethered.

However, should there be a difference between using the 881u card or a mac or a PC? When I boot my mac into windows, Aircard connection is regularly faster than when I boot on Mac side. I'm using Sierra Wireless software on both sides, so not sure why there is a difference.

To make matters worse, my unlimited data plan allows free wifi connection at AT&T hotspots, but the software only lets you connect if you're a PC. There's no hotspot software to get you on AT&T's wifi if you're on the mac.

Can someone pls share their experience with these two items?

Jay2TheRescue · 07-02-2008, 5:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wirelessisland

Transmitting over wifi is definitely the most convenient but I just got the new Sierra Wireless 881U card that seems to be around 30% faster than the 875u or Razr V9 tethered.

However, should there be a difference between using the 881u card or a mac or a PC? When I boot my mac into windows, Aircard connection is regularly faster than when I boot on Mac side. I'm using Sierra Wireless software on both sides, so not sure why there is a difference.

To make matters worse, my unlimited data plan allows free wifi connection at AT&T hotspots, but the software only lets you connect if you're a PC. There's no hotspot software to get you on AT&T's wifi if you're on the mac.

Can someone pls share their experience with these two items?

I think there is only one conclusion to make here...

PC WINS!!!

06-01-2008, 5:35 AM	#1 (permalink)
RadioRaiders Telecom Evangelist Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Undisclosed Posts: 944 Provider(s): GSM / WCDMA Thanks: 3 Thanked 12 Times in 8 Posts	HSDPA Connection: USB vs. PCMCIA vs. Phone I'm currently making some HSDPA testing using USB dongles, such as the Novatel MC950D: Ovation™ MC950D USB Modem In the past I made tests with Sierra Wireless PCMCIA cards and Qualcom phones. All seem to work fine and give good thruput. I was just curious if anyone had and good/bad experiences when connecting a laptop to a USB dongle, PCMCIA card or phone? Did anyone notice better/worse performance with one type of device compare to another? Theoretically, I think they should all be fine, just wondering if there was anything I was missing. __________________ Understand communications. Visit Radio Raiders

06-01-2008, 12:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jay2TheRescue I'm Jay the Dry Cleaner.. Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Sterling, Virginia Posts: 10,215 Phone(s): Moto V3, A845, HTC Tilt, Moto V551, iPAQ 6515, Western Electric 302, 500, Ericsson Ericaphone Provider(s): AT&Tingular 310-410 Devices: Zune 30gb & way too many BT devices to list Thanks: 27 Thanked 25 Times in 23 Posts Images: 157	Re: HSDPA Connection: USB vs. PCMCIA vs. Phone I don't know if this helps you or not, but I have teathered my Tilt to my laptop in several methods. The fastest connection I get is teathering over WiFi. (Fastest achieved 1750 down/300 up) USB is a little slower than WiFi. (Fastest achieved 1600 down/300 up) Bluetooth is the slowest. (Fastest achieved 1300 down/300 up) (Most often when teathering by BT I only get about 900 down though) -Jay __________________ GET A FREE $25 AT&T GIFTCARD WITH ACTIVATION OF NEW AT&T SERVICE FROM ANY DEALER. PM ME FOR DETAILS Last edited by Jay2TheRescue; 06-01-2008 at 1:09 PM. Reason: Got my Ups & Downs reversed...

06-01-2008, 1:26 PM	#6 (permalink)
walkguru Wireless Guru Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 6,069 Phone(s): nokia 6682, nokia 6230, moto,v600, moto,v551 Provider(s): cingular,family plan w/4 lines Devices: m3000,hs810, Sirius,sportster,w/boombox, Thanks: 10 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Images: 28 My Auctions	Wirelessly posted (Walkguru's: Opera/9.50 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/4.1.11328/308; U; en)) the bt that i used was not that bad. but the wifi at the library was really fast. __________________ http://www.speedtest.net/result/90674468.png Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night, because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf ~George Orwell

06-01-2008, 2:30 PM	#8 (permalink)
COtech Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Memphis, TN Posts: 836 Phone(s): HTC Tilt 8925, NEC 525 HDM, Nokia 6340i GAIT, Motorola Select 2000e Provider(s): AT&T Mobility Devices: MP3 players, WWVB wristwatch Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts My Auctions	Re: HSDPA Connection: USB vs. PCMCIA vs. Phone One useful option that the USB aircard has versus a PCbus or PCMCIA aircard is that it doesn't have to be plugged in directly--you can add an extension USB cable. You can elevate the USB aircard, or put it on a window sill, or something else. COtech __________________ A SLA gets the trouble away!

06-02-2008, 1:51 PM	#11 (permalink)
Ddeere2 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Laredo, Texas Posts: 400 Phone(s): Blackberry 8100 Pearl, Motorola Razr 2 V9, Nokia N75, LG C2000 Provider(s): AT&T Devices: XPS 1530 and a 80 gb iPod Classic Thanks: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: HSDPA Connection: USB vs. PCMCIA vs. Phone Wow, that's good to know, I'll go with a USB modem when they turn on the 3G here in my town. You would think that over USB it would be the fastest though.

06-03-2008, 4:59 PM	#14 (permalink)
bobolito iPhone 3G 16GB (White) Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Sanfrakota Posts: 12,398 Phone(s): iPhone 3G, RAZR V9, Sierra 875 3G Aircard, HP iPaq Classic 110 Provider(s): AT&T Mobility Devices: WiFi cards/Access points Thanks: 3 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts Images: 50 My Auctions	Re: HSDPA Connection: USB vs. PCMCIA vs. Phone I have tried three methods and all are pretty consistent to technical expectations: - RAZR2 V9 to Laptop via USB cable: 1.7mbps/350kbps - RAZR2 V9 to Laptop via Bluetooth: 600kbps/300kbps - Sierra 875 PCMCIA Aircard: 1.5mbps/380kbps I am also surprised Jay went over 720kbps on a Bluetooth connection which is the theoretical maximum for Bluetooth. So in reality, Bluetooth places a bottleneck on your 3G connection. __________________

06-03-2008, 9:19 PM	#16 (permalink)
dmapr Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,738 Phone(s): Sony Ericsson K850i, Nokia 6131 v5.50, Nokia 6820 v5.30 Provider(s): AT&T Blue; T-Mobile To Go Devices: Palm TX Thanks: 7 Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts	Re: HSDPA Connection: USB vs. PCMCIA vs. Phone I haven't tried BT with my K850i, but the USB connection was about the same as Bobolito's:

07-02-2008, 3:59 PM	#18 (permalink)
wirelessisland I have arrived! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: HSDPA Connection: USB vs. PCMCIA vs. Phone Transmitting over wifi is definitely the most convenient but I just got the new Sierra Wireless 881U card that seems to be around 30% faster than the 875u or Razr V9 tethered. However, should there be a difference between using the 881u card or a mac or a PC? When I boot my mac into windows, Aircard connection is regularly faster than when I boot on Mac side. I'm using Sierra Wireless software on both sides, so not sure why there is a difference. To make matters worse, my unlimited data plan allows free wifi connection at AT&T hotspots, but the software only lets you connect if you're a PC. There's no hotspot software to get you on AT&T's wifi if you're on the mac. Can someone pls share their experience with these two items?

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