OR/WA digital coverage: Sprint vs Cingulair for Treo 650

[jrlittlejr]

Howdy,

I've been with Verizon using dual-band/tri-mode V60 phone for several years. Good coverage in Portland, OR and rural areas including Bend, Mt St. Helens, Oregon/Washington Coast.

For my work... I'm needing to switch to a Treo 650 phone, which limits me to either Sprint or Cingulair. Also, the 650 is a digital only phone... no analog capability. I have some questions for folks on this forum about your recommendations.

1) Which DIGITAL network has best footprint in Oregon/Washington? The Treo 650 is digital only phone, won't roam on analog networks. In my experience, Cingulair/AT&T is winner here. I've got a friend who has Sprint with a Treo 600, and I've stood next to him at several of the above locations and he can't get a signal.

2) Sprint has an option for $5/month for "Free and Clear America" that allows roaming on other networks, which I'm told means Verizon's network. But since the Treo 650 is "digital" only phone, how much extra does this add? Viewing the Sprint Network Maps for this area, it looks like their "Off-Network Roaming-Analog" area is about what I've experienced with my Verizon service. However the "Sprint PCS Network" area on the map is substantially less.

3) Cingulair pisses me off a bit with their data plan policies and options... Although the PalmOne website lists $19.99 per phone "MEdia Net Unlimited" data plan, the Cingulair website and several reps I've talked to say this plan isn't available with this phone. Instead, they want you to pay $45/month per phone for a "PDA data plan". Highway robbery! Sprint on the other hand has a $15/month unlimited plan that applies to all phones on a shared plan. THAT is a good deal IMHO.

4) Unlocking Sprint Phones: Has anyone had experience with getting Sprint to unlock phones after your contract expires? I'm considering getting Sprint for 1 year contract, and if not happy, switching phone to Verizon after 1 year. Alternative would be to buy unlocked GSM Treo 650 direct from PalmOne and then get service with Cingulair.

Thanks!
Jim

[packrat4217]

Jim -

As a current T-Mobile user, but not locked into a contract, I assume I could also get an unlocked 650, and just swap in the SIM from my old Treo 180, and be good to go on T-Mobile. It's an extra $300 (vs Sprint) to have complete GSM mobility, but again, the CDMA providers seem to have better coverage (Verizon) than T-Mobile and a better data plan (Sprint). I also like the idea of being able to swap out a SIM card and not be stuck with a provider.

Key for me however, and probably most cell phone users is "does the phone work well in the core area where you use it?" For me that's Portland metro, (especially the west side) occasional trips to coast and central Oregon, three or four national trips a year, one or two international trips a year.

I assume others in Portland and the Pacific Northwest have similar issues and experiences with these four providers. It would be helpful to have a general ranking of digital network coverage for all four providers for the Pacific Northwest in general, and for the Portland/Seattle major metro areas.

- Peter

[aholzman1]

Originally Posted by packrat4217

Jim -

As a current T-Mobile user, but again, the CDMA providers seem to have better coverage (Verizon) than T-Mobile. I also like the idea of being able to swap out a SIM card and not be stuck with a provider.

Key for me however, and probably most cell phone users is "does the phone work well in the core area where you use it?" For me that's Portland metro, (especially the west side) occasional trips to coast and central Oregon, three or four national trips a year, one or two international trips a year.

It would be helpful to have a general ranking of digital network coverage for all four providers for the Pacific Northwest in general, and for the Portland/Seattle major metro areas.

- Peter

I'll start (what will likely be a juicy thread) in saying that I live in the same area and travel to essentially the same places. I was VERY dissapointed with Verizon 2 1/2 years ago when I had their service. Seemed to be poor coverage and even worse customer service. Have been fairly pleased with ATTWS these last few years ... I like the GSM service for my travel to Europe and find the roaming to tmobile in Bend/Sisters works quite well. I am leery; though, of staying on Cingular, so many horror stories about service and the family plan rates are significantly higher than tmobile.

No experience with Sprint, but again require GSM in Europe so Sprint or Verizon would not be an option.

Please do relate your tmobile experience ... esppecially coverage in PDX metro & westside. Also any anecdotes about Mt. Hood, Cannon Beach & Sisters.

[packrat4217]

T-Mobile has been fine for me, but most people on the west side of Portland find Verizon has fewer holes in its coverage and extends futher east and west along hwy 26. My son has Verizon and has significantly better coverage, fewer dropped calls, than me in the Metro area. Also better in remote areas, I've heard. Sprint and ATT also seem to be a bit better than T-Mobile on the west side of Portland. In central Oregon I have to be in the center of Madras, Redmond or Bend to get a decent signal. Go five miles out of town along hwy 97 and forget it. Customer service has been reasonable, and it seems T-Mobile gives you the most minutes for the dollar, but not as much data for the dollar as Sprint. Is it true that GSM bands are at capacity compared to more ample CDMA bands, resulting on more dropped calls?

[aholzman1]

Originally Posted by packrat4217

T-Mobile has been fine for me, but most people on the west side of Portland find Verizon has fewer holes in its coverage and extends futher east and west along hwy 26. My son has Verizon and has significantly better coverage, fewer dropped calls, than me in the Metro area. Also better in remote areas, I've heard. Sprint and ATT also seem to be a bit better than T-Mobile on the west side of Portland. In central Oregon I have to be in the center of Madras, Redmond or Bend to get a decent signal. Go five miles out of town along hwy 97 and forget it. Customer service has been reasonable, and it seems T-Mobile gives you the most minutes for the dollar, but not as much data for the dollar as Sprint. Is it true that GSM bands are at capacity compared to more ample CDMA bands, resulting on more dropped calls?

Peter - may I ask which phone you have? Amazing how much that makes a difference! In Sisters, my Nokia 6620 gets far better reception on tmobile than my Sony-Ericsson did.

As to GSM being @ capacity compared to CDMA ... I honestly don't know. I'd be surprised as both tmobile & Cingular are building out pretty rapidly, but I guess it is certainly possible.

[jrlittlejr]

One thing I haven't figured out yet about the AT&T to Cingulair transition... AT&T had very good coverage in Oregon for years. There were a few spots I got Verizon where friends couldn't get AT&T, and vice versa. However, just prior to being bought by Cingulair, AT&T started marketing GSM plans. AT&T's maps showed the GSM footprint to be miniscule compared to AT&T's "old" network. Since the transition to Cingulair, I haven't been able to get good answer from anyone about the coverage on GSM. Does anyone know how a GSM only phone will perform on Cingulair/AT&T's combined network?

Jim

[packrat4217]

Originally Posted by aholzman1

Peter - may I ask which phone you have? Amazing how much that makes a difference! In Sisters, my Nokia 6620 gets far better reception on tmobile than my Sony-Ericsson did.

As to GSM being @ capacity compared to CDMA ... I honestly don't know. I'd be surprised as both tmobile & Cingular are building out pretty rapidly, but I guess it is certainly possible.

For T-Mobile I've used a treo 180 and a motorola v300; compared them to Sprint with a Samsung A740; Verizon with an LG VX3200; and ATT with a Nokia 3560. Hardly top of the line phones, but pretty comparable in their mediocrity. To really compare the services, you'd want all Treo 600s (or all Treo 650s, which wasn't possible until the Sprint>>Verizon patch devised for the 650 by shadowmite and the unlocked GSM 650 just released by PalmOne).

[azcellphonejunkie]

Originally Posted by jrlittlejr

One thing I haven't figured out yet about the AT&T to Cingulair transition... AT&T had very good coverage in Oregon for years. There were a few spots I got Verizon where friends couldn't get AT&T, and vice versa. However, just prior to being bought by Cingulair, AT&T started marketing GSM plans. AT&T's maps showed the GSM footprint to be miniscule compared to AT&T's "old" network. Since the transition to Cingulair, I haven't been able to get good answer from anyone about the coverage on GSM. Does anyone know how a GSM only phone will perform on Cingulair/AT&T's combined network?

Jim

Jim:
FYI, the company is Cingular, not Cingulair. Singulair is the asthma medicine, Cingular is the wireless company
azcellphonejunkie

[aholzman1]

Originally Posted by jrlittlejr

One thing I haven't figured out yet about the AT&T to Cingulair transition... AT&T had very good coverage in Oregon for years. There were a few spots I got Verizon where friends couldn't get AT&T, and vice versa. However, just prior to being bought by Cingulair, AT&T started marketing GSM plans. AT&T's maps showed the GSM footprint to be miniscule compared to AT&T's "old" network. Since the transition to Cingulair, I haven't been able to get good answer from anyone about the coverage on GSM. Does anyone know how a GSM only phone will perform on Cingulair/AT&T's combined network?

Jim

I can only provide my own anecdotal evidence, but the GSM support/signal on ATTWS got SIGNIFICANTLY better in the 2nd half of 2004. My GSM Nokia 6620 on ATTWS/Cingular has been getting excellent signal with almost zero dropped calls (and I travel to Calif, NY, Boston etc).

What I'm also interested in is if I should expect the same on T-Mobile? Reason being that I move soon up to Bend/Sisters and ATTWS/Cingular has no coverage there today. I'd keep using the unlocked 6620 as it has 850/1800/1900 band support.

[jrlittlejr]

Originally Posted by azcellphonejunkie

Jim:
FYI, the company is Cingular, not Cingulair. Singulair is the asthma medicine, Cingular is the wireless company
azcellphonejunkie

Now THAT is embarrassing. You are quite correct. You can tell how long "Cingular" has been around the Pacific Northwet :-) Interestingly... I've been going to their website for weeks by typing "www.cingulair.com" into the browser and that REDIRECTS to www.cingular.com, so apparently I'm not the only dope to make this mistake Incidentally, I am a doc, so the "Singulair" error may have been subconscious!

[packrat4217]

Jim -

Looks like you're still on the fence between Sprint and Cingular for your use in Portland and around OR & WA generally. Same here. Plus there's the option of getting the UNLOCKED Treo, which I could use with my T-Moble SIM. I like T-Mobile and their service, but the coverage is only so-so. That's less attractive now that PalmOne raised the UNLOCKED price to $700, unless you can sweet talk them with the "gee, I saw it on your web site for $600." This has worked for some, not for others, depending on who you get on the phone.

So it comes down to:
Sprint - coverage OK esp with $5 roaming, minutes reasonable, data superior, Cust Service lousy.

Cingular - coverage less than OK, minutes reasonable, data more expensive, Cust Service lousier(?), world phone. (But buggier than Sprint as it's a brand new product for Cingular?)

Unlocked with T-Moble SIM - coverage less than Cingular, minutes excellent, data more expensive, Cust Service superior in my experience, world phone, not tied to a plan. (But T-Mobile support might not be robust since they don't sell 650s.)

Have you pulled the trigger yet?

- Peter

[dalbrich]

Despite my distrust of Cingular, I'd be tempted to go with them and Treo 650:
- Get mediaworks $20 unlimited data option -- Data works on GSM even when roaming- so virtually everywhere your phone does.
- buy a Nokia 6340i and get the SIM provisioned for TDMA/analog-- folks claim this can be done free of charge, and with included roaming.

i.e.
- Use Treo 650 as much as you can.
- If you have to roam in analog/etc then move the SIM to 6340i.

Sprint is a fine choice for voice, especially with their $5 free roaming option but their data doesn't work when you roam, and they have very little non-Interstate coverage for native service/data access.

-Dan

[azcellphonejunkie]

Originally Posted by dalbrich

Despite my distrust of Cingular, I'd be tempted to go with them and Treo 650:
- Get mediaworks $20 unlimited data option -- Data works on GSM even when roaming- so virtually everywhere your phone does.
- buy a Nokia 6340i and get the SIM provisioned for TDMA/analog-- folks claim this can be done free of charge, and with included roaming.

i.e.
- Use Treo 650 as much as you can.
- If you have to roam in analog/etc then move the SIM to 6340i.

Sprint is a fine choice for voice, especially with their $5 free roaming option but their data doesn't work when you roam, and they have very little non-Interstate coverage for native service/data access.

-Dan

The 6340i will only work in areas that Cingular alows GAIT functionality. This is not everywhere. I for example cannot use GAIT here in AZ, since they tell me that all the TDMA areas are now covered by GSM...

[proud2bamerican8]

Originally Posted by aholzman1

No experience with Sprint, but again require GSM in Europe so Sprint or Verizon would not be an option.

Sprint is rolling out a World Phone allowing GSM coverage abroad. Stay tuned.

[azcellphonejunkie]

Originally Posted by proud2bamerican8

Sprint is rolling out a World Phone allowing GSM coverage abroad. Stay tuned.

REALLY!!! That is great for them! I'm guessing the phone would be 1900/800 CDMA, 800 AMPS and 1800/900 GSM. Like the Samsung SCH-A790 for Verizon that has CDMA for here and GSM for overseas!

[TProphet]

You'll have about the same amount of digital coverage with Sprint as you do with VZW now, presuming you subscribe to Free and Clear America. They roam freely on one another's networks, and you can also roam on US Cellular's digital network in eastern Washington and Oregon. Sprint edges out VZW on analog coverage availability, though; they can roam on US Cellular, Verizon, and Cingular Blue. This, of course, will make no difference to you with a Treo 650, since it's a digital-only handset.

I used to live in Lake Oswego and Beaverton, so I am in Oregon frequently. From my experience, Sprint has considerably improved coverage in the Portland metro area over the past year. It's not on par with VZW yet, as it is here in the Seattle area, but it's close. Of course VZW blows Sprint away on the coast. For instance, Sprint has no coverage in Astoria, although they have one tower in Cannon Beach.

Cingular has slightly less digital coverage than Sprint + Free and Clear America. However, with Cingular, you can use data features nearly anywhere your phone has service. That's not the case with Sprint, where data features only work in the Sprint coverage area. Coverage breadth, however, does not equate to coverage depth. While Cingular has improved their GSM network a lot in the past year, I drop calls far more frequently on their network than I do on Sprint. I also encounter many more coverage "holes" with Cingular than Sprint. Remember, in the Portland area, Cingular *is* AT&T Wireless. The network is the same and only the name has changed. If you need coverage in Lake Oswego, the West Hills, or other tough-to-cover spots, you would be wise to steer clear of them.

My recommendation? Well, I use my Sprint handset (and not my Cingular handset) as my primary phone, so draw your own conclusions. Both carriers have lousy customer service so for me, it's all about the plan and the network. I think Sprint has a better network and better plans, so they get the majority of my business.

[Rasputin]

My brother lives in the burbs east of Portland and has Sprint, the coverage has improved, but he still drops here and there. He dropped 3 times on me yesterday. But he seems to be happy with the coverage, he sells medical equipment and travels through most of Washington and Oregon, he does pay extra to roam on to Verizon, but he tells me he roams less and less.