New VZ site SE of Denver

[BillRadio]

Verizon doesn't announce these things any longer, so I will. After chiding them about not adding new cell sites in Denver, I tripped over a building permit with the City of Aurora. This site is at C-470 and Gartrell, one of a handful of areas where they are building new homes like crazy, and the service has been suffering.

I'm almost embarrassed to admit this site is ony 2 miles from my house, but it is on a short, "light pole" that is built low behind the Safeway. So low, you can't see it from C-470, but it helps nonetheless.

I am impressed that this modest site also includes its own generator. Probably a sad commentary of the reliability of the local rural electric cooperative.

[Andy]

I am impressed that this modest site also includes its own generator. Probably a sad commentary of the reliability of the local rural electric cooperative.

Good to hear another Verizon additon Is it going to help your house as well???

About the generator part: Every Verizon site in my area has a huge "housing" of equipment, including generators, etc. where most other carriers don't even bother having generators on site. The only other provider who seems to have generators at a lot of cellsites is Nextel I think.

[BillRadio]

Is it going to help your house as well???

No, when we moved in i checked all my phones and was floored at full bars on every carrier, except AT&T (both) & Cricket, even in the basement. I have 2 existing VZ sites within view of the house, 1 is 2 blocks away.

This new site sits next to an area that has added several hundred new houses and that many more apartments and condos. My service is excellent, but neighbors less than a mile away were suffering from noticeable capacity problems. This, and a new 4-lane highway nearby, a new shopping center, and to add insult to injury, the cell site that served this area before just had a new Mall and 2 high schools added. There was a need.

This site has the typical utility shed, but I noticed a manhole cover for fuel, and an exhaust pipe through the roof, all in the same housing. Usually the generator sits outside. This is a nice looking facility, which was really unnecesary due to being hidden so far below grade.

[Andy]

No, when we moved in i checked all my phones and was floored at full bars on every carrier, except AT&T (both) & Cricket, even in the basement. I have 2 existing VZ sites within view of the house, 1 is 2 blocks away.

This new site sits next to an area that has added several hundred new houses and that many more apartments and condos. My service is excellent, but neighbors less than a mile away were suffering from noticeable capacity problems. This, and a new 4-lane highway nearby, a new shopping center, and to add insult to injury, the cell site that served this area before just had a new Mall and 2 high schools added. There was a need.

This site has the typical utility shed, but I noticed a manhole cover for fuel, and an exhaust pipe through the roof, all in the same housing. Usually the generator sits outside. This is a nice looking facility, which was really unnecesary due to being hidden so far below grade.

So was Verizon the only carrier suffering capacity problems??
Sounds like you live in a busy area

[bobgoulding]

I live on the University of Colorado Boulder campus. Signal here is usually only about half strength for some reason, but it has been significantly stronger recently, maybe that new tower in Aurora?

[TProphet]

I've noticed that about VZW here in the Seattle area too. They have backup generators at nearly all of their sites. The only other carrier that consistently does this in the area is Qwest, so Sprint will definitely benefit from picking up that infrastructure (I haven't seen a single Sprint site with backup power).

[CRC]

Question Mr Radio, T Prophet and All...
Ist there a way to tell who's tower's are who's without getting up close? Sometimes that's hard to do with fences all around, or if it's in part of a "locked" compound...or if you're going down the freeway. Was wondering if Verizon makes there's all their "fin's" look one way, T-Mobile another, etc. Sometimes I'm going down the freeway or road and see the tower's, but wonder sometimes who the carrier is. Sorry for the kinda "dumb" question in advance...just trying to learn more about the business! Just wondering how you guys know what tower is what. Thanks!

[BillRadio]

Ist there a way to tell who's tower's are who's without getting up close?

In some cases you can tell if the antenna is Cellular vs. PCS by its size. But that only partly narrows it down.

Almost all the carriers use all the various designs of antennas and supporting structures. So the short answer is no, you can rarely tell from a distance. But in most cases you can get information from close in. There may be a phone number to call "in case of emergency." They usually answer with the network name when you call.

But that isn't fool proof...it could just be the tower operator. A tower on S. Bass Island in Ohio had a number to call and they answered "Qwest", who does not have any towers anywhere near Ohio.

Another giveaway is that the power company may write the name on the electric meter. The site I noted was on the City of Aurora list of building permits. When I visited the site, it had Verizon's tech network 800 # on it.

[Andy]

I've noticed that about VZW here in the Seattle area too. They have backup generators at nearly all of their sites. The only other carrier that consistently does this in the area is Qwest, so Sprint will definitely benefit from picking up that infrastructure (I haven't seen a single Sprint site with backup power).

Here, too, Verizon has backup generators at even their smalles sites. The only other carrier here who uses backup generators at some sites that I know of is Nextel. I've not seen a Sprint site around here that has a backup generator.

[agentHibby]

I've noticed that about VZW here in the Seattle area too. They have backup generators at nearly all of their sites. The only other carrier that consistently does this in the area is Qwest, so Sprint will definitely benefit from picking up that infrastructure (I haven't seen a single Sprint site with backup power).

Qwest and Verizon having generators makes sense to me.

USWest becomes Qwest

US West Cellular "New Vector" to Air Touch
Vodafone Air Touch to Verizon

Qwest Wireless (parts of the network) to Verizon.

[Caiman1900]

Does anybody know of any new VZW sites in the North Metro Area of Denver, it is sad but ATT GSM seems to do better in the whole north half of the Denver Area...

[BillRadio]

Does anybody know of any new VZW sites in the North Metro Area of Denver,

Caiman,
It could very well be there is a substantial Verizon cell building project going on here now. After years of little activity, I have spotted several new sites under construction. Your area could be next.

In addition to the site noted earlier in this thread, I discovered another new one right on Parker Rd. near Orchard. This one is unusual in the fact that the supporting pole is about 3 feet in diameter, much larger than the normal flag- or light-pole installations.

Also, they are building the pole and the equipment housing right in FRONT of the apartment complex who owns the property. I would think they would rather have it behind. There is another site within a mile of this one, so they are adding additional capacity instead of new coverage.

Verizon just announced a big contract with Motorola for a bunch of cell sites, and Denver is one of the 4 markets using Motorola equipment. Now, if they could just add one in your neighborhood, and another at Lowry, we'd all be happier.

[NYCDru]

Question Mr Radio, T Prophet and All...
Ist there a way to tell who's tower's are who's without getting up close? Sometimes that's hard to do with fences all around, or if it's in part of a "locked" compound...or if you're going down the freeway. Was wondering if Verizon makes there's all their "fin's" look one way, T-Mobile another, etc. Sometimes I'm going down the freeway or road and see the tower's, but wonder sometimes who the carrier is. Sorry for the kinda "dumb" question in advance...just trying to learn more about the business! Just wondering how you guys know what tower is what. Thanks!

Test mode in the car man. Its the best way I have found so far. when you see numbers better than 50 look up and arround, 40 an oh boy.

[Andy]

Test mode in the car man. Its the best way I have found so far. when you see numbers better than 50 look up and arround, 40 an oh boy.

Yup, I do that all the time...It does, however distract you from driving

[NYCDru]

I am never the one driving. (Seeing as i don't have a drivers license.)

[Andy]

Good....so you don't have to worry about that

[Climb14er]

I live across from the Lowry AFB, just a stones throw south of Alameda, west of Farimont Cemetery here in Denver and there are three cell towers in the area. Unfortunately, my house is in somewhat of a low signal zone as the radio waves kind of go all around me. If Lowry were to be more 'covered' I'll bet that my neighborhood would benefit from this signal strength. If I go a few blocks away toward the top of the hill by Exposition and Monaco near GW High School, I have full signal strength. Verizon already knows about Lowry and if more people report this problem, I'll bet another tower gets built in the Lowry area.

[BillRadio]

Verizon already knows about Lowry and if more people report this problem, I'll bet another tower gets built in the Lowry area.

Jerry,
There is more than one 'trouble ticket' issued for the area around Quebec and Alameda. Now that Verizon has the equipment, I can't help but think they're trying to do something. But where do they put the site? The cemetary would be a good choice...no NIMBY's, no cancer worries.

BTW, that's the 3rd on my list of 3 complaints where coverage hasn't kept up w/growth. They covered the other 2!

[Caiman1900]

Where do you tell VZW about areas that would benifit from a tower, on Washington st. south of 120th ave in the Northglenn/Thornton area VZW is not so hot, you will get signal on your phone but everytime you try to make a call you get a network faliure and the phone will jump between full digital and full analog anytime you are not in the middle of the street.

[Climb14er]

Hi Bill,

It seems to me that there's all this open space (for now) by the Big Bear arena, where the ballfields are. How about that huge parking lot connected to and east of the Federal Records and Accounting division? There are still large parking lots and open space near the Wings' Museum?

On a 'positive' note, I got the upgraded software for my 4400B and the reception at the house is a 'smigeon' better. I hear from a number of my friends that when they're headed east on Alameda, dropping down the hill from Holly, their signal starts to fade. This makes sense as the site at Colorado Blvd. is over the hill, the one at Monaco across from King Soopers is over the hill and the site east by Dayton is still out of range.

It seems to me and many others (yourself included) that there is that dead zone at Lowry to my neighborhood and there are bookoo people moving into Lowry including many new businesses.

I would hope that VZ reads these posts.

Take care Bill!

[Andy]

If you live/work/travel in this area and haven't reported the problem to VZW, I would do so and open a trouble ticket, because the more tickets the faster they will react or the more important it will become to them.

[Climb14er]

I have already opened a trouble ticket through one of VZ's managers who handled my account with professionaliosm and gave me tons of accessory freebies when I ported to VZ from ATT. I'm waiting, waiting, waiting...

[BillRadio]

Where do you tell VZW about areas that would benefit from a tower,

You call 611 with documented information: times, exact location, phone model, and how far the problem extends.

I know that with Jerry, myself, and a co-worker of mine, there are 3 trouble tickets for the Lowry area. Be the squeaky wheel, but BE NICE. Don't tell them where they need a tower, tell them where you're having trouble.

I'm sure that when they tell the local Can You Hear Me Guy where the latest complaint is, he already knows about it, but more complaints gives him that much more reason to ask to have it fixed.

Jer, Yes, my wife calls each day right about Holly, and starts having trouble going east on Alameda past the fire station (wouldn't that make a good site?). There, her phone often switches to analog, but turning south onto Quebec the call usually drops. It's hard for me to say the dead zone is right next to Fairmount Cemetary. It's almost too funny!

[Andy]

Sooner or later it'll happen, LOL.

[Climb14er]

<Jer, Yes, my wife calls each day right about Holly, and starts having trouble going east on Alameda past the fire station (wouldn't that make a good site?). There, her phone often switches to analog, but turning south onto Quebec the call usually drops. It's hard for me to say the dead zone is right next to Fairmount Cemetary. It's almost too funny!>

Bill, that's funny. Actually, it's VERY 'quiet' there and I like to go there during the day and sometimes at night with a girlfriend to walk. Not on Halloween though.

When I don't go to Wash Park to do laps and work out (btw, the signal strength there is much better with VZ than it was with ATT TDMA), I go do a long lap around Fairmont Cemetery (about 4.5 miles) and I carry my phone. The signal there is pretty weak as the tower at Dayton doesn't seem to penetrate through to the area.

Your suggestion re: the fire station is ideal! There seems to be emergency communication towers there anyway, eh?

The VZ manager that I spoke with mentioned that it costs approx. one million dollars to put in each cell tower location. This seems kind of high to me. Anyone know how much a 'typical' cell tower location costs for the build-out?

[NYCDru]

The VZ manager that I spoke with mentioned that it costs approx. one million dollars to put in each cell tower location. This seems kind of high to me. Anyone know how much a 'typical' cell tower location costs for the build-out?

Actualy, that sounds a little low depending on were you are from.

LEGAL FEES!!!$$$$$$$$$, Zoning fees$$$$$$, Rent/Lease of space$$$$$, Network engineers, power setup, T1 line(s), Network testing, and I am sure I am missing MANY more issues.

Throw in NIMBY's and the pice SKYROCKETS.

I am sure Larry and Foofighter can comment more on this.

[Climb14er]

You're probably right re: legal, zoning, community, real estate and 'pay-off' fees. Sites can be darn expensive.

[Andy]

Bill, after VZW gets the remaining Qwest sites and spectrum, might coverage improve then?
I know here in SLC, Sprint actually didn't take as many sites as they should have; maybe the same is true for the Denver area?

[BillRadio]

Bill, after VZW gets the remaining Qwest sites and spectrum, might coverage improve then?
I know here in SLC, Sprint actually didn't take as many sites as they should have; maybe the same is true for the Denver area?

Andy,
I am really surprised at how many Qwest sites got converted to Sprint. It was as though they measured .6 miles or something, and if a Qwest site covered that, it became Sprint's...I mean just a few BLOCKS between sites!

Verizon doesn't need bandwidth to improve coverage, they need some new sites where there has been tremendous growth. The Lowry area we speak of is a former Air Force base that was abandoned a few years ago. First the city panicked. Then they decided to build some homes. Now, these 'close-in' properties are appreciating like crazy, so they're building like crazy. It a huge area and the old sites can't serve it.

Verizon has been using most of their new 1900 MHz spectrum in 850 markets to offer additional data capacity. I can't help but think think they would do the same with the new Qwest sites. I can't see Verizon dismantling these sites, it's too much trouble, and sites are hard to come by.

But the real hope is that they will use the Qwest licenses to add PCS coverage where they don't have licenses. There are some small markets in the NW, and one in NE, but there are also a bunch of isolated spots where they would be smart to add a few sites to reduce roaming charges. Some of that would include NE UT, Elbert County, CO, and much of rural MN. They used the Northcoast spectrum for just that in the Midwest and Northeast.

Since they just closed on the Nextwave spectrum in NYC, I would expect them to go to work there first, to get faster bang for their buck. In
this story:

"But the value of those licenses has plunged during the past several years, and Verizon Wireless has garnered a reputation through deals with Northcoast Communications L.L.C. and Qwest Communications International Inc. as being able to acquire much-needed capacity at below so-called market value."

...may indicate they're just shopping for the future.

[larry]

Bill, after VZW gets the remaining Qwest sites and spectrum, might coverage improve then?
I know here in SLC, Sprint actually didn't take as many sites as they should have; maybe the same is true for the Denver area?

Sprint might still be in the process of taking over some remaining Qwest sites. For example they just converted one over 3 days ago In Centralia, Washington. So they're still working. I hear they actually picked up quite a few in Denver.