Verizon AC - Roaming charges in SW Washington?

[AJinWA]

(Apologies in advance for the long post and obvious frustration) Has anyone for sure been billed for roaming charges in Southwest Washington (along I-5 corridor; specifically in Longview, WA near OR border) on the Verizon America's Choice plan?

Here's my situation: I just signed up with Verizon last week in my home area of Seattle. I went with the AC plan b/c I have family across the U.S., but the place I travel to most is to my parents' home south along I-5 to just at the WA-OR border. The Verizon coverage map shows that I will still be in my home area while there and not be charged roaming charges. In fact, I am there right now and my phone says that I am on the "Extended Network" which I understand means that I am not roaming.

However, when I placed a call and received a call here, the timer on my phone says that I am roaming. Immediately, after I hang up, it says that I am back on the Extended Network. I tried calling Customer Service a few times to find out whether I am or am not roaming, but the operators are not helpful and sound like they do not know either. They say I should just wait for my bill to see if it's roaming or not.

Well, this is a problem since the bill will not come out until after my 15 day trial period is over. I asked Customer Service if there is a way to check prior to this and they said no. That sounds pretty ridiculous to me. I also asked them why my phone would say I am on the Extended Network on standby but then that I am roaming when I actually am on a call from the same exact location. Once again, they had no answer. I saw an earlier thread about some people having roaming problems along this I-5 WA corridor but I do not think I saw I follow-up as to whether their bills actually included roaming charges for their calls from this area.

This is really a make or break deal for me with Verizon as I will cancel my contract if it does turn out to be roaming. I cannot switch to the local plan because for the amount I want to pay ($35), they do not offer free long distance which I also need. If I cannot get a definitive answer, I am leaning toward cancelling regardless.

Please let me know ASAP if you were actually billed on the AC plan for calls in this area. Thanks very much.

[Gman]

It sounds discouraging if their CS people can't tell you if it is roaming or not. Can you find a local Verizon store where you are having the problem and ask them?

[Kenster]

Which phone do you have? I have noticed that my Kyocera 2235 suffers from this phenomenom, even though I have the latest PRL.

My phone does not indicate any roaming (Flashing 'R') but when I make or receive a call the phone seems to indicate that it is roaming (I see the roaming timing indicator plus I get the special roaming ringer when I receive a call). This happens whenever I am outside of my home (Chicagoland) area. But I never pay roaming charges. This is part of the reason why Verizon is offering a free phone to me.

Yeah, try replicating your problem in front of the Verizon reps at a VZW store to see what they have to say.

[AJinWA]

Thanks for the help. I have the LG 4400. Unfortunately, there are no Verizon stores within 60 miles of where I currently am to show the problem to.

It's good to know that even though your timer says its roaming (and on the extended network when you are just in standby), that you do NOT get charged such fees. I wonder if my phone is the same way. Please keep the advice coming. Thanks again.

[Buickman]

Dial some odd number like #646 to check you minute usage, you should get some kind of error message saying we cannot complete your call blah blah blah, then they usually identify the carrier whos tower it is. Find that out and let us know, hopefully someone here will know if that is a extended area partner or not.

[spridle]

AJ,

Rest assured that you are not charged roaming as long as it says "Verizon" or "Extended Network." It is a known software issue with the 4400 that calls outside of your regular area show roaming on the call timer. And this is why...

The America's Choice plan provides FREE ROAMING on some networks in the United States. Anytime you make a call when your outside of your home area the call timer will indicate roaming because technically (and as far as the phone and network is concerned) you are roaming. You only pay roaming charges if your phone says "ROAM" where it would normally say "Verizon."

[ILUVSOCAL]

Where exactly are you that the problem is happening? I also have family in that area, in Vancouver, Kalama and Longview, and Verizon's native coverage stops at the north end of Vancouver, from there well into Washington you roam on either US Cellular or Sprint. Sprint is included in the AC plans, but if you are roaming on US Cellular, you will be charged .69 cents a minute as USCC's western markets(California, Idaho, Washington, Oregon)are not included in the AC plans. By the way, what phone do you have?

[spridle]

You can also do a "message search" (icon up on the top) and search for "4400" and "roam" you will see quite a few threads about this very same issue and others have confirmed that they have not been charged roaming.

[ILUVSOCAL]

If he's on US Cellular, he will be charged roaming regardless of what the display says.

[BillRadio]

AJ,
Let me re-affirm what Spridle has mentioned. The appearance of "Roaming" is an issue with your PHONE. The 4400's timer says 'roaming' just because you're not on your home network, not because you will be charged by Verizon. Most Verizon agents haven't heard about this. You will NOT be charged if it says "Extended Network" when you're not on a call.

This is a known issue with the 4400, and not necessarily a problem.

-Bill

[AJinWA]

Thanks for the help everyone. I will do the word search on the forum for "4400" and "roam" but I am glad to hear that it appears to be just a technical problem with the LG 4400 phone. That area (Longview) is basically the second most place I would be using the phone after Seattle and I wanted to make sure that I was covered.

I do wish Customer Service had some way of confirming whether or not I would be charged roaming outside of waiting for my next bill, especially since I am still on my trial period and have some amount of recourse if it is roaming. Please let me know if you know of a way they (or even I) can do this without having to wait (i.e. checking a few calls that I made during my time there).

Nonetheless, thanks very much for all of your help. I appreciate it.

[TProphet]

I also have the Kyocera 2235, and have had numerous problems in this area with the Verizon America's Choice plan. These have been discussed extensively in the following thread: AC Roaming Problems in Pacific NW

[AJinWA]

Yes, yours is the one thread that I was alluding to in my original message which kind of made me nervous.

At least for the LG 4400 phone that I have, it does seem to be a technical glitch with the phone however. I did a search as advised and found that it appears there is a new update that fixes the problem with this particular phone.

Still wish I could confirm this Customer Service, though, before my trial period is up. I have found them as helpful as you, which is to say "not very".

http://www.wirelessadviser.com/wafor...&keyword2=roam

http://www.wirelessadviser.com/wafor...&keyword2=roam

[BillRadio]

AJ,
While I am 99.9% sure that you have nothing to worry about, one of the best ways to make Verizon perform for you, is to actually go ahead and ask to cancel your service, letting them know exactly why you are going to this trouble. They will most likely find someone who can provide proof, and put it in writing, that you won't be charged roaming fees. This would be most effective at the store with the box, receipt and accessories in hand. Avoid busy hours.

If things don't go exactly as planned, and you do cancel, you can sign up again and get another 15 days.

-Bill

[AJinWA]

Okay, just got my 4400 phone flashed with software v06 which I understand from these forums should fix the "roaming timer" problem that I have been experiencing. I am heading down to Longview again tonight and will see if it works. I have my fingers crossed.

I also called CS by phone and on the 6th try, I finally got one of them to tell me my bill showed no roaming for those calls made last week in Longview and that the city was specifically covered under the extended network, though I am not sure if she just said that to get me to stop calling. The folks at the Verizon store could not tell me for sure either way. I have until Monday for the trial period so here's to hoping all goes well.

Thanks again for everyone's help and input.

[AJinWA]

As a follow up, I went down to Longview again yesterday and unfortunately, the new software version (06) did not correct the "roaming timer" issue. So while I think that it the area is probably not roaming, I cannot definitively confirm whether it is or not. I called customer service again (probably about my eighth time re: this issue) and I keep getting different answers, most of which are inconclusive. The CS reps are definitely nice enough, I just do not think they know that much about the situation nor can they give me a concrete answer. Oh well, I guess I will just decide tomorrow whether I wish to the take the risk or not. Thanks again everyone.

[BobC]

if your going to cancel your service, make sure you count the day you signed up(the 6th I beleive) in your 15days. I called up CS three times to verify when my 15 day trail would be over and of course the last time they told me I was on the 16th day. Sorry, can't cancel without penalty was what I was told. I asked if they had my previous calls recorded so I could prove they changed the dates, but was told they could not do that. No problems with my service, but I was disappointed in CS.

[jayc]

Originally posted by: ILUVSOCAL
If he's on US Cellular, he will be charged roaming regardless of what the display says.

Look for this to change in this area. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

[ILUVSOCAL]

I hope it changes soon here in Northern California too!! It's the one reason why I refuse to use AC here, because I often have to use USCC's signal around my house and at my sister's place to make and receive calls, and the local plans don't charge me to do that, they don't care what network I'm on with the local digital choice plans here.

[AJinWA]

Thanks for the advice everyone and for the update, Jayc. I was able to actually confirm it with one of the local store reps. The rep printed me a copy of an email saying that they had just negotiated the use of another cellular tower in Longview (meaning they already had one there as well) and signed it to the effect that I would not be charged roaming in this area. She also let me see a list of cities in WA that are and are not covered under the Verizon and/or extended network and all of the cities that I could reasonably see myself going to at least semi-regularly were covered. I have not gotten my first bill yet but I am hopeful that every thing will work out now.

[plughy]

Originally posted by: AJinWA
Thanks for the advice everyone and for the update, Jayc. I was able to actually confirm it with one of the local store reps. The rep printed me a copy of an email saying that they had just negotiated the use of another cellular tower in Longview (meaning they already had one there as well) and signed it to the effect that I would not be charged roaming in this area. She also let me see a list of cities in WA that are and are not covered under the Verizon and/or extended network and all of the cities that I could reasonably see myself going to at least semi-regularly were covered. I have not gotten my first bill yet but I am hopeful that every thing will work out now.

Roaming Call Detail

Date/Time Call From Call To Length Roam LD Tax
03/14/03 19:10 Longview WA Incoming Call 00:01:00 0.69 0.00 0.00
03/14/03 19:55 Longview WA Incoming Call 00:01:00 0.69 0.00 0.00
03/14/03 19:56 Longview WA Incoming Call 00:01:00 0.69 0.00 0.00
03/14/03 19:57 Longview WA Incoming Call 00:02:00 1.38 0.00 0.00
03/14/03 23:01 Longview WA Incoming Call 00:02:00 1.38 0.00 0.00


This is with a Motorola V120e in kalama. The signal quality is lousy. All of those were DROPPED CALLS. For what it's worth, NexTel also has lousy coverage there.

Don't be surprised. However... If what somebody said above about "that changing in that area soon" is correct, maybe it will get better.

[ILUVSOCAL]

Kalama huh? My brother just finished and moved into a new house there on his property, he moved from Kelso. He manages a Safeway in Vancouver, but trying to get on at a new store in Woodland. I have a several nieces, nephews, and grand nieces and nephews in Longview and Vancouver too. Anyways, US Cellular has an excellent CDMA signal in that area, you won't be charged to use them on a local, regional or national plan, though AC users will get dinged .69 cents a minute.

[AJinWA]

Thanks for sharing your call log, Plughy. What you showed me did not look good so I just checked my online bill (haven't received my first bill my mail yet).

From what I can tell from their somewhat convulated online billing statement, it does not look like I was charged for the call in Longivew. It only has one call listed from my time in Longview (though I thought I had made at least two) and no extra charges were applied to it from what I can tell. I see no mention of roaming or roaming calls anywhere on the bill, though for that one particular call from Longview (incoming call from Portland), it lists the call as "WC" or Wide Area Calling. I am assuming this means the "Extended Network". Whatever the case, as long as I am not being charged for roaming from there, I am fine with it.

I have not tried making any calls from Kalama, though I might try this weekend when I pass through on my way to Portland.

Thanks again for the help.

[skymind]

AJ,

Have been following your posts with interest because my husband and I have VX4400s under trial with Verizon too, and it just so happens that he was up in Silverdale, WA with it last week and got the flashing roaming symbol. Customer service said that this area should be covered by Verizon without roaming and had us dial *228 to down load a locations update. I also went into settings > select system and set it there to "Home Only" so it would not roam. If you want it to roam you set it for "Automatic B." It also has a setting for "Automatic A," too which I gather is for using with another carrier. However, from what I understand, there isn't a SIM in the phone so I don't know how it is programed for this, and am curious about what this functionality includes.

I also tried to check the Verizon website for the listing of our useage so far, to determine if roaming fees had been charged but discovered you have to go through at least one billing cycle before they will give you this listing. Customer service also told me that it is illegal to give you your useage record until after you have been billed. This seems to contradict the fact that you can get everything but your used roaming minutes from the customer service voice mail tree.

From other posts on this forum, it would seem that the Verizon coverage in Oregon and Washington is not so good, so it may be that this problem is a carrier rather than phone issue. Please let us know how your phone works with the software update.

Although we were assured by Verizons that they provide a detailed bill, something we need so that my husband can charge some of his calls to business, what good will this do you if they are incorrect? That sort of thing is more trouble than it is worth. Considering such problems with coverage where we need it and the issue of getting correct statements, we may not keep Verizon service and are checking into AT&T.

We really many of the things about customer service and the phone, but if there is a can of worms to found under this nice package, we would rather avoid it. The other thing is that we would like to be able to use our phone overseas at a reasonable fee. That's another issue.

I hope this is not back to square one. If anyone here has something more hopeful to say about this, please chime in.

Thanks.

[AJinWA]

Skymind,

Yes, I admit it was sort of a gamble. I am past my 15 day trial period so I am in it for the long haul I guess. Thanks to the advice from this board, my numerous calls to customer service and my conversations with reps at Verizon stores, I decided to go with Verizon instead of staying with my old carrier, ironically AT&T (which I was on a month-to-month with very little minutes). I did get a written statement from a rep at the store saying that Longview and various nearby cities were NOT roaming under the AC plan and she also printed me out part of a company email stating that they had added another tower in Longview to the ones already existing there as part of their extended network, but it is not certain how far a statement from a store rep will hold up. Nevertheless, it at least gave me something and I was appreciative.

From my online bill statement, it looks like she was right and I am okay, though I have not yet received my first mailed statement. And yes, it does list each and every call (just like my old carrier, AT&T, did and I suspect all carriers do).

I guess it also helped that the store rep from whom I signed up with worked out a deal for me that's slighty better than what's normally offered. It stinks, though, for it be kind of a gamble but hopefully it will work out for both us.

[skymind]

AJ,

It sounds like everyone at Verizons is trying to do their best by you and it will most likely work out very well.

Our trial period concludes at the end of the week, and this forum has been very helpful. It is sometimes difficult to decipher legitmate complaints from grumblings. So when someone shares their decision making process like you have, we all learn. Thanks.

[dalbrich]

Yes, the area you are describing is a known troublespot. In that area, you're either roaming on Sprint or US Cellular -- Sprint being included with AC and US Cellular not. To double-check things while roaming, dial "*2" and you'll either get Sprint's welcome to customer service greeting, or you'll get an error. Luckily US Cellular's error messages are very clear -- Man's voice "Welcome to US Cellular, there was a problem connecting you to the number dialed. Please check the number and try your call again" (or something very similar to this). I also sometimes test by dialing a bogus number like "111" and then hit send. In some cases the error message tells you what you need right away (in terms of carrier). Sprint doesn't mention their name in their error messages, but it's a familiar computer female voice that reads the error (probably same as their automated attendent named Claire). Anyway, after a little experience testing, you'll know for sure which provider you are on. Note how the display looks on your phone each time you test, and you'll likely see a specific pattern emerge.

On my Kyocera 6035 my phone shows blinking orange roaming indicator even when on extended network, however, there is an inverted blocked R on my screen which blinks when on extended network (included with AC) and remains solid when off of extended network. This is the only indicator I get, but it does work consistently.

-Dan

PS: Given your specific area of use, AT&T is stronger and less of a hassle because all of your features work transparently even when roaming which is not the case with Verizon. A Verizon phone roaming on Sprint (or US Cellular for that matter) will be able to place and receive calls, but voicemail indication doesn't work (for me), and of course there is no SMS or data support in those areas. By contrast, AT&T's TDMA phones have all features intact while roaming in the same areas (VM indication, SMS, Caller ID, etc.) I also live and travel near the edge of Verizon service here in Oregon and while I do experience some issues, I've noticed the areas north of Woodland WA have been much more problematic for me than the areas south of Eugene. (My phone tends to find US Cellular even in areas where Sprint coverage exists but is weak-- which is the case above Woodland).

[TProphet]

The problem north of Woodland is the exact one I've been having--there's a perfectly good Sprint signal, but the phone picks up US Cellular (this is on a Kyocera 2235). The workaround is to set the roaming option to scan Automatic A, and force Digital Only. That seems to cause the phone to scan the 1900MHz CDMA carrier before scanning the available CDMA 800MHz B carrier. Verizon promised me an answer to this problem over 2 months ago and still has not delivered. Given the trouble getting any logical answer or response from Verizon, I think that they hope people who are billed roaming erroneously in this area will just shut up, pay the bill, and go away. This issue has really turned me off to Verizon; I was pretty unhappy with Sprint, but at least they give customers the option to avoid roaming charges in the firmware of all their phones.

[ILUVSOCAL]

Word of advice, DON'T get the America's Choice Plan if you frequent areas that use US Cellular for coverage until they include them in the plan for California, Oregon, Washington and Idaho.

[budney]

ILUVSOCAL - I was just about to say the samething about the AC plans in the NW. To me the National SingleRate and Local Plans are the only way to go.