The Welcome Thread !

[Andy]

Originally Posted by forrest1

Andy,

The LG phones are less than 2 years old. Apparently an earlier run of VX4400's had antenna problems, but we are told that ours are OK.
I have seen where the Moto phones work better, the PN offset jump thing: I can upgrade phones in October, so I may try that.

A question: I sometimes travel out in rural areas, so I've wanted a tri-mode phone for emergency roaming: is that still an advantage, or are the AMPS cells being removed from those areas and/or upgraded to digital?
That would influence my choice between the V710 or E815.

I know the AMPS sytem here is strained; that's why we finally went digital 2 years ago. Those sure were convenient phones to use in the car, though.

Another question:
I could fix my in-home coverage with a wireless repeater, and a single-band unit is affordable, but the dual-band (800 mHz + 1.9 gHz) units are a bit pricey. Would a single 800 mHz repeater be enough? VZW apparently can use both bands here, but I suspect it's mainly the 800 mHz band that they use: I was unable to glean any info from the VZW people about this, except that historically, they used mostly 800mHz in the West, and mostly 1.9gig in the East, due to acquisitions of smaller networks.

So, more questions: Would a single 800 mHz (or 1.9gHz) wireless repeater be enough for my house?
Does the phone stay on one band at a time during a call?
Or jump band-to-band as it moves from tower to tower? (I'm in the 91941 ZIP code)
Or does it frequency-hop between BOTH bands (or use one for uplink, and the other for downlink) so that I really need to cover both simultaneously?
Or does it periodically check which band has the stronger signal, and then move there?
Is there any way to interrogate my phone to discover which band it's operating on at a particular moment?

Logically, it seems to me that the phone would look for the band with the stronger signal, and stay in that band until it is forced to change, for whatever reason.
If that were the case, a single-band repeater should be all I would need to boost my local signal to a generous level.

Thanks!
Forrest

Forrest, go into field test on your VX4400 and tell us exactly what you see. to do that, press menu, then all zeroes, then 2 and 1. Write down the Rx power level and Ec/Io for us to see.
In urban California, AMPS networks are strained and you would probably not miss a lot/ if anything by going all digital. I was down there a few weeks ago and made quite a few calls on AMPS just to see if it was as unusable as people say, and I was actually quite amazed at the fact that it worked better than I thought it would, but in more rural areas of California, AMPS should still work just fine. I have successfully used it in rural areas in California just fine; it's the urban areas where AMPS is often useless.
Not only do Moto phones jump PN offsets less, but they also have a better rf. I now have service in places, and can hold calls in places I never could before with my LG. If you are worried about AMPS, go with the V710.

Verizon used to only use 800 Mhz in your area, but I believe they overlaid their network with 1900 in the area so both bands are available. An 800 repeater should be enough, since, to the best of my knowledge, there are no 1900 only towers, so signal strength on the two bands should be equal or 800 should even be better. EVDO is run at 1900 and what I noticed is that in places like DisneyLand in some indoor places where coverage is weak/nonexistant my phone first switched from 0 bars of EV to 1 bar of 1x before going to no service so the 800 signals are stronger due to the nature of the band.

Hope this helped.

[forrest1]

Originally Posted by Andy84094

Forrest, go into field test on your VX4400 and tell us exactly what you see. to do that, press menu, then all zeroes, then 2 and 1. Write down the Rx power level and Ec/Io for us to see.
In urban California, AMPS networks are strained and you would probably not miss a lot/ if anything by going all digital. I was down there a few weeks ago and made quite a few calls on AMPS just to see if it was as unusable as people say, and I was actually quite amazed at the fact that it worked better than I thought it would, but in more rural areas of California, AMPS should still work just fine. I have successfully used it in rural areas in California just fine; it's the urban areas where AMPS is often useless.
Not only do Moto phones jump PN offsets less, but they also have a better rf. I now have service in places, and can hold calls in places I never could before with my LG. If you are worried about AMPS, go with the V710.

Verizon used to only use 800 Mhz in your area, but I believe they overlaid their network with 1900 in the area so both bands are available. An 800 repeater should be enough, since, to the best of my knowledge, there are no 1900 only towers, so signal strength on the two bands should be equal or 800 should even be better. EVDO is run at 1900 and what I noticed is that in places like DisneyLand in some indoor places where coverage is weak/nonexistant my phone first switched from 0 bars of EV to 1 bar of 1x before going to no service so the 800 signals are stronger due to the nature of the band.

Hope this helped.

Andy, this is quite helpful! I can force the phone into different modes, and here are the Ec/Io and Rx power in all 5 modes (actually, 5 out of 7--I did not test the P_REV 3 ONLY or P_REV 4 ONLY modes, because I had no clue what they are)

Auto Mode , Mode C, Ec/Io=-7.5 to -9.5, Rx=-79 to -82
Forced to CELL ONLY, Mode C, Ec/Io=-11 to -15, Rx=-77 to -83
Forced to PCS ONLY, Mode P, Ec/Io=[-7 to -9], Rx=-100 to -109
Forced to CDMA ONLY,Mode C, Ec/Io=-12 to -13.5, Rx=-78 to -83
Forced to ANALOG , Mode A, Ec/Io=[ ], Rx=-69 to -72

In PCS ONLY, the Ec/Io readings were quite intermittent, mostly being blank. Ec/Io was nonexistent in ANALOG mode. What is Ec/Io anyway, some sort of packet count?

These readings were from my upstairs bathroom window, the strongest signal I can get from the house, and 5-10 dB stronger than downstairs where I drop calls.
Interestingly, I could make calls easily in CELL ONLY, CDMA ONLY and ANALOG ONLY, as well as AUTO, all 4 to 5 bars, but PCS ONLY had "No Service".
I assume that CELL ONLY means the 800mHz band, and PCS ONLY means the 1.9 gig band? I suppose that CDMA ONLY means either CELL or PCS but not ANALOG, since both digital modes are CDMA, right? (Yay, Qualcomm!)

So, it looks to me like 1.9GhZ is not used here, and that an 800mHz repeater would solve my in-house problems, if the Motorola does not. Does this sound correct to you?

I think that I'll still try out the Moto and look for an improvement first: maybe I won't need a repeater at all. Or, if the Motorola doesn't cut it, I can still switch to Sprint and get a 1.9gig repeater later if I need one.

"Can you hear me now?"

Thanks!

Forrest

[Andy]

Originally Posted by forrest1

Andy, this is quite helpful! I can force the phone into different modes, and here are the Ec/Io and Rx power in all 5 modes (actually, 5 out of 7--I did not test the P_REV 3 ONLY or P_REV 4 ONLY modes, because I had no clue what they are)

Auto Mode , Mode C, Ec/Io=-7.5 to -9.5, Rx=-79 to -82
Forced to CELL ONLY, Mode C, Ec/Io=-11 to -15, Rx=-77 to -83
Forced to PCS ONLY, Mode P, Ec/Io=[-7 to -9], Rx=-100 to -109
Forced to CDMA ONLY,Mode C, Ec/Io=-12 to -13.5, Rx=-78 to -83
Forced to ANALOG , Mode A, Ec/Io=[ ], Rx=-69 to -72

In PCS ONLY, the Ec/Io readings were quite intermittent, mostly being blank. Ec/Io was nonexistent in ANALOG mode. What is Ec/Io anyway, some sort of packet count?

These readings were from my upstairs bathroom window, the strongest signal I can get from the house, and 5-10 dB stronger than downstairs where I drop calls.
Interestingly, I could make calls easily in CELL ONLY, CDMA ONLY and ANALOG ONLY, as well as AUTO, all 4 to 5 bars, but PCS ONLY had "No Service".
I assume that CELL ONLY means the 800mHz band, and PCS ONLY means the 1.9 gig band? I suppose that CDMA ONLY means either CELL or PCS but not ANALOG, since both digital modes are CDMA, right? (Yay, Qualcomm!)

So, it looks to me like 1.9GhZ is not used here, and that an 800mHz repeater would solve my in-house problems, if the Motorola does not. Does this sound correct to you?

I think that I'll still try out the Moto and look for an improvement first: maybe I won't need a repeater at all. Or, if the Motorola doesn't cut it, I can still switch to Sprint and get a 1.9gig repeater later if I need one.

"Can you hear me now?"

Thanks!

Forrest

Well, the readins aren't bad. The signal strength is good. -80 or so upstairs would mean -90 downstairs and shouldn't be a problem. Weird how you'd drop the call downstairs but not upstairs. Ec/Io is the noise level of the system and generally goes up as traffic on the network increases. If the level goes above -15, -17 ish, you will start dropping calls. I've once held a cell for about a minue in yellowstone national park with an ec/io of -high 20's I think and a power level of -106.

So your phone showed no service in PCS mode at all? Then Verizon doesn't use 1900 where you live, maybe they only use it for EVDO data and not for voice, but an 800 repeater would do the job. I'm almost positive that a Moto I suggested will do the trick. If not you have other options like trying out a different carrier or getting a repeater.

I'm still not sure why your phone would drop calls downstairs; is there any electronic equipment that could be interfering, because with an Ec/Io of -7 to -9 you shouldn't drop a call. CDMA only means Digital 800/1900 only, so no analog. Strange how you get such great readings with analog. What happens when you force your phone to analog? Is it reliable to make/receive calls?

Hope this gives you more insight
Andy

[forrest1]

Originally Posted by Andy84094

Well, the readins aren't bad. The signal strength is good. -80 or so upstairs would mean -90 downstairs and shouldn't be a problem. Weird how you'd drop the call downstairs but not upstairs. Ec/Io is the noise level of the system and generally goes up as traffic on the network increases. If the level goes above -15, -17 ish, you will start dropping calls. I've once held a cell for about a minue in yellowstone national park with an ec/io of -high 20's I think and a power level of -106.

So your phone showed no service in PCS mode at all? Then Verizon doesn't use 1900 where you live, maybe they only use it for EVDO data and not for voice, but an 800 repeater would do the job. I'm almost positive that a Moto I suggested will do the trick. If not you have other options like trying out a different carrier or getting a repeater.

I'm still not sure why your phone would drop calls downstairs; is there any electronic equipment that could be interfering, because with an Ec/Io of -7 to -9 you shouldn't drop a call. CDMA only means Digital 800/1900 only, so no analog. Strange how you get such great readings with analog. What happens when you force your phone to analog? Is it reliable to make/receive calls?

Hope this gives you more insight
Andy

Hmm. Very interesting. Downstairs signal strength is around -95, downstairs Ec/Io is -10 to -16. Both numbers jump around a lot. And we don't drop every call, sometimes it will work fine for several minutes, other times it'll drop it in less than a minute. Seems like the important calls get dropped the most/fastest, per Murphy's Law . And most of the important incoming calls go to voicemail, which is aggravating.

Interference may be a problem. We have a couple of computers, a laser printer & fax running in the office, often a TV on in the family room, two places with the most trouble.

In analog mode I can make calls, but the sound is a little scratchy off & on, as signal strength varies, I suppose. And the battery runs down very quickly--I just tried an analog call, and the phone powered itself off in less than a minute, from a full charge! I think my battery may be getting a bit old, BTW, because it used to pretty much stay "full" all day, but recently it drops a bar or two during the day. I figure I'll get a new phone soon, one way or the other, so I'm holding out til then.

I will give a Motorola a try, and hope for the best. I'm starting to think that the LG is an inexpensive little phone with flashy features, but not a quality workhorse like the Moto.

Meanwhile, I've found my way into the Debug Screen on the Sprint Samsung SCH-8500. Upstairs I get -80dB, Ec/I0 -5 to -8; downstairs Rx is -90, Ec/Io around 10. So no wonder the Sprint works so well. The SCH-8500 is a nice little phone, too. It just won't work in the office, where Rx is worse than -100 at my desk. A repeater would fix that really easily, though, so that will be Plan B if I have to change carriers.
The Samsung numbers are far more stable than the LG numbers, which hop all over. I suppose that is just a slower moving-average function--I doubt that it actually reflects a greater signal stability on PCS.

Andy, thank you very much for all your help! I'll let you know how this all winds up, and I'll be lurking around a bit until this obsession goes away and the phone becomes just another appliance that I can take for granted.

Forrest

[WiggyFife]

Hi to all new members I've missed since last time...

[Andy]

Originally Posted by forrest1

Hmm. Very interesting. Downstairs signal strength is around -95, downstairs Ec/Io is -10 to -16. Both numbers jump around a lot. And we don't drop every call, sometimes it will work fine for several minutes, other times it'll drop it in less than a minute. Seems like the important calls get dropped the most/fastest, per Murphy's Law . And most of the important incoming calls go to voicemail, which is aggravating.

Interference may be a problem. We have a couple of computers, a laser printer & fax running in the office, often a TV on in the family room, two places with the most trouble.

In analog mode I can make calls, but the sound is a little scratchy off & on, as signal strength varies, I suppose. And the battery runs down very quickly--I just tried an analog call, and the phone powered itself off in less than a minute, from a full charge! I think my battery may be getting a bit old, BTW, because it used to pretty much stay "full" all day, but recently it drops a bar or two during the day. I figure I'll get a new phone soon, one way or the other, so I'm holding out til then.

I will give a Motorola a try, and hope for the best. I'm starting to think that the LG is an inexpensive little phone with flashy features, but not a quality workhorse like the Moto.

Meanwhile, I've found my way into the Debug Screen on the Sprint Samsung SCH-8500. Upstairs I get -80dB, Ec/I0 -5 to -8; downstairs Rx is -90, Ec/Io around 10. So no wonder the Sprint works so well. The SCH-8500 is a nice little phone, too. It just won't work in the office, where Rx is worse than -100 at my desk. A repeater would fix that really easily, though, so that will be Plan B if I have to change carriers.
The Samsung numbers are far more stable than the LG numbers, which hop all over. I suppose that is just a slower moving-average function--I doubt that it actually reflects a greater signal stability on PCS.

Andy, thank you very much for all your help! I'll let you know how this all winds up, and I'll be lurking around a bit until this obsession goes away and the phone becomes just another appliance that I can take for granted.

Forrest

Sprint seems a little better, reading wise, but not a hole lot. Honestly, give a Moto V710 or E815 a shot. Either one have one of the best/THE best rf on the Verizon network. LGs do flip around a lot...mabye you could try getting your phones software updated at the verizon store- maybe a newer software fixes/helps the problem.

[RJB]

forrest1 I have to say that is one nice car in your avatar

[forrest1]

Originally Posted by RyanB

forrest1 I have to say that is one nice car in your avatar

Thank you. It's a Factory Five Racing Cobra replica that I enjoy autocrossing.

.mabye you could try getting your phones software updated at the verizon store- maybe a newer software fixes/helps the problem.

No, it doesn't. been there, tried that.

A V710 or E815 (or maybe one of each for the wife and I) is in my future. I'll probably wait until Oct 5, when we can get "free" phones.

Thanks again!

Forrest

[Andy]

Originally Posted by forrest1

Thank you. It's a Factory Five Racing Cobra replica that I enjoy autocrossing.


No, it doesn't. been there, tried that.

A V710 or E815 (or maybe one of each for the wife and I) is in my future. I'll probably wait until Oct 5, when we can get "free" phones.

Thanks again!

Forrest

You are welcome...Anytime
Try those phones. Maybe you should get one of each so that one of your phones will have more advanced features like VCast, and the other is AMPS capable in case you ever travel to an area you need it. I'm sure this will greatly enhance your service at home, but if it doesn't, look into someone else.
~Andy

[ShoresGuy]

Doesn't Verizon allow you to try out coverage in your area for a given trial period? That would be the exact idea of whether 1x/EV-DO coverage is solid enough or if AMPS is still needed as fallback.

Most of Europe has been all-digital since 2000 or so. Germany (better said, T-Mobile) switched off their analog network in 2000.

[forrest1]

ShoresGuy,
The AMPS backup would be just for emergency use on vacation trips, etc. in the boonies, not in my local area, so it would be hard to test within the 14 day trial period.

I used AMPS once on Lake Powell a couple of years ago when I could not get a digital signal. That was the only time that I can remember, though. Probably digital coverage has continued to expand, so I suspect the AMPS capability is not really needed. Certainly "most"of the USA has digital coverage now, just not "all" (I think?).

In my home town (San Diego area), Verizon digital coverage is good nearly everywhere.

Forrest

[ShoresGuy]

I see, I have a relative who lives in Scripp's Ranch but I doubt that AMPS coverage would be needed all the time in a densely tree-covered area like that. Even if VZW and other CDMA providers aren't doing it on purpose, my guess is that gradually they'd like to get as many people on digital only since the number of digital-only CDMA phones seem to be increasing. Of course, you probably can't get everybody away from a digital/AMPS combo but in well-covered cities and suburban, this would seem like a realistic scenario.

[NYCDru]

Moto v710 or e815 should eliminate the need for a house repeater. The moto I had could use -106 DB for clear calls and from what I have heard these are no exception. Also, Moto's typically stick with the stromgest available signal much better than LG's with a few exeptions. (LGvx4650 comes to mind.)

[forrest1]

Thank you all. I had no realized that there was so much difference between phones. I guess that I just assumed that a one CDMA chipset was like another, but I guess not. Or maybe the RF section is separate and not integrated in. Or maybe there are other little intangibles that make the difference. The consensus seems to be that Moto phones are better, so I'll try one in Oct.

Forrest

[cheviot]

It's good to be back again. I have been absent from the forums since the switch a couple of years ago. I was brought back specifically due to the merger of Cingular and AT&T. I am maintaining service on the Cingular Blue side for now, and intend to do so until at least the next high-speed data upgrade is complete in Central Indiana.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by forrest1

ShoresGuy,
The AMPS backup would be just for emergency use on vacation trips, etc. in the boonies, not in my local area, so it would be hard to test within the 14 day trial period.

I used AMPS once on Lake Powell a couple of years ago when I could not get a digital signal. That was the only time that I can remember, though. Probably digital coverage has continued to expand, so I suspect the AMPS capability is not really needed. Certainly "most"of the USA has digital coverage now, just not "all" (I think?).

In my home town (San Diego area), Verizon digital coverage is good nearly everywhere.

Forrest

I had a friend who went down to Lake Powell a while ago and he said that AMPS was still usesfull in the Lake Powell area( he was on the VZW AMPS system where the digital did not reach/connect or something).

[dodgersle]

Hi, I'm very nervous about the new Cingular phones my husband and I got and new Cingular service!! I'm glad I found this sight!

[ShoresGuy]

Welcome to WA, post any questions you might have in the Central or Eastern Wireless forum.

[Andy]

Welcome to the Forums, dodgersle , enjoy it here and enjoy your new Cingular service, let us know if we can be of any help.

[JulesEven3939]

Hello All! Glad to be a member