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Mike · 06-21-2002, 5:36 PM

With my AT&T Wireless Bill there was a Important Notification about your Wireless Service notice.

Starting August 1, 2002 there will be a Rate Change for AT&T Connect Service. Call 411 and it will be $1.25 per use plus airtime, roaming and applicable long distance charges.

Also beginning August 1, 2002, when calling from the AT&T Wireless network you will incur a charge for busy or unconnected calls if you do not end the call within 30 seconds.

Here is the out -
If you do not want to accept the charges outlined above, you can cancel your service without incurring an early cancellation fee by notifying us within the next 20 days.

theyallstink · 06-21-2002, 11:09 PM

Verizon just made a change in June that all incoming calls would be clocked from the time the call hits the VZW network not from when the customer accepts the call. So that means if you talk for 50 seconds on an incoming call and think you slid in under a minute, think again, you probably didn't!

Don't fret, unanswered calls are not charged.

tourman · 06-22-2002, 7:03 AM

What about calls that go to voicemail?

06-22-2002, 3:28 PM

I presume they did this to avoid lawsuits or have to deal with grandfathering . Anyway it gives me an early repreive to got out of my poor Atlanta service AT&T SE contract .

ATLguy · 06-22-2002, 7:27 PM

How do you get billed long distance for calling 411? Do I need to start dialing 1-411 when out of my home area? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

bobolito · 06-25-2002, 7:18 AM

One day AT&T is going to figure out how to charge you money everytime you turn on your phone.

KevinJames · 06-25-2002, 7:33 AM

Now Bobo, here I thought you were a voice for reasonableness.

ATT, for those of you that don't know, has extended the services rendered by 411 operators. Seeing as their operators can now be engaged on a single call up to several minutes as opposed to a few seconds, I feel ATT is fully justified in charging the amount. It was already 99 cents. They merely raised it 26 cents more. Given the services, I think it is reasonable. Also, as more and more people adopt web-enabled phones, they will use the web to find phone numbers and not 411.

As far as ATT charging for for everytime you turn on your phone, I think Verizon has them beat there. And Cingular, don't even get me started about that subject.

bobolito · 06-25-2002, 8:04 AM

That was a sarcastic joke... What is it that Cingular and Verizon charge for that you think is unjustifiable?

SiemensS40 · 06-25-2002, 8:56 PM

It would help if a) ANY 411 service actually had an up-to-date list. I can't remember how many times I've tried asked for a number to a business I will later drive up to and that has been in the same place for 7+ years and AT&T tells me they have no listing, yet when I get to the establishment and they look in the phone book whoop there it is. And b)it would also be nice if they connected you to the correct number. Screw me a couple times, I'm through with you. I will never use 411 again unless it is an absolute emergency, so the increased fee isn't a concern to me.

I'm still strongly leaning toward GSM. So I may still use this as an out. I really don't travel much outside GSM areas, but I hold on to my non-gsm service because those times that I do I would like to have sevice. I guess I could always- gasp- use a payphone! I've just really liked AT&T and hate to abandon them just because they're being so slow with their GSM rollout.

bobolito · 06-26-2002, 8:11 AM

Why not consider Voicestream? I am sure their GSM coverage is and will be more realiable than AT&T.

Mike · 06-27-2002, 9:11 PM

I was looking at the Cingular Website and was actually reading the Plan Terms. Guess what I found there?

Cingular - Unanswered calls of 30 seconds or longer incur airtime.

AT&T - You will incur a charge for busy or unconnected calls if you do not end the call within 30 seconds.

Gee, sounds about the same thing, unanswered, unconnected. What is more amazing is that I actually read the terms.

ATLguy · 06-28-2002, 9:41 AM

Mike,

At least the AT&T and Cingular "terms and conditions" are relatively straight forward ... and it isn't entirely unreasonable for them to bill for unanswered calls since they take up (minimal) network bandwidth while the connection remains "open". Your post prompted me to look at the terms that accompany some other carriers and here's what I found:

---

Verizon Wireless:
"Charges for calls that connect begin when you press “SEND” while placing a call, or upon connection to the system. On incoming calls, charges may begin prior to the phone ringing and before you press “SEND” to receive the call."

VoiceStream:
"Incoming and outgoing calls are rounded up and billed in full minute increments from the time the network begins to process the call (before the call rings or is answered) through its termination of the call."

---

I'm thinking about sending a contract to the carriers that include *my* terms and conditions:

"I may pay my bill as soon as it is received, or I may pay my bill in small increments over the next 12 months."

"I may notify you of obvious billing errors, or I may let you figure it out by yourself. In either event, you won't be getting my money until the error is corrected."

"For every minute (or fraction thereof) that I wait on hold when calling customer support, a credit of $0.50 will be added to my account."

It really makes you wonder what bozo sits around all day and comes up with these ridiculous "terms and conditions". I'd rather pay more money each month in exchange for terms that I can actually understand. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

ATLguy

JBradM · 06-28-2002, 11:18 AM

Does this affect the SunCom customers? I really want to get out of my contract with them so I can do some changing! I really need out of the last three months! any suggestions?

Joe0378 · 07-02-2002, 12:19 PM

<<

"For every minute (or fraction thereof) that I wait on hold when calling customer support, a credit of $0.50 will be added to my account."

ATLguy >>

LOL....I like that one. If that's the case, they'd be paying me for me using their service. =)

WirelessBeachBum · 07-10-2002, 8:29 PM

One of the most complicated things in communications is 411, it is amazing how many places a business has to go to ensure that a phone number is listed correctly there are only a couple of Nationwide directory sources LSSI is one in use by many carriers on the east coast. Not only does your local phone company list the businesses in LSSI but also in local D.A.'s when I managed a CLEC/wireless company Directory Assistance was a bigger headache than even local number portability.

Jack · 07-10-2002, 8:45 PM

true

Jack

07-11-2002, 12:47 PM

I NEED TO GET OUTTA MY VOICESTREAM CONTRACT. CAN I USE THEIR WHOLE NAME CHANGE AS A CLAUSE TO CANCEL????

HELP!

bobolito · 07-11-2002, 1:20 PM

Well, the way Verizon puts it sounds like they wanna charge you even for turning your phone on.

ATLGuy, here is another one for your terms and conditions:
"For every minute, or fraction thereof, that I have to ask the other party to repeat what they said due to a weak reception, I will receive a credit of one minute of airtime. Seconds taken in this process will be rounded to the next full minute."

analogkid · 12-09-2002, 8:50 PM

I realize that the 411 clause was from August, 2002, but I'm wondering if there's any way to get out of an AT&T wireless contract now? Anyone have any ideas? Thanks.

06-21-2002, 5:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mike Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tampa Bay Area Posts: 282 Phone(s): Motorola RAZR V3, Motorola V60c, Motorola V551 Provider(s): T-Mobile, Verizon, Cingular Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Want to get out of your AT&T Contract? With my AT&T Wireless Bill there was a Important Notification about your Wireless Service notice. Starting August 1, 2002 there will be a Rate Change for AT&T Connect Service. Call 411 and it will be $1.25 per use plus airtime, roaming and applicable long distance charges. Also beginning August 1, 2002, when calling from the AT&T Wireless network you will incur a charge for busy or unconnected calls if you do not end the call within 30 seconds. Here is the out - If you do not want to accept the charges outlined above, you can cancel your service without incurring an early cancellation fee by notifying us within the next 20 days. __________________ Mike a/k/a Shepp elsewhere on the net http://www.pcsws.com/ T-Mobile is the third largest wireless network in the world - and growing!

06-25-2002, 7:18 AM	#6 (permalink)
bobolito iPhone 3G 16GB (White) Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Sanfrakota Posts: 12,398 Phone(s): iPhone 3G, RAZR V9, Sierra 875 3G Aircard, HP iPaq Classic 110 Provider(s): AT&T Mobility Devices: WiFi cards/Access points Thanks: 3 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts Images: 50 My Auctions	One day AT&T is going to figure out how to charge you money everytime you turn on your phone. __________________

06-25-2002, 8:04 AM	#8 (permalink)
bobolito iPhone 3G 16GB (White) Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Sanfrakota Posts: 12,398 Phone(s): iPhone 3G, RAZR V9, Sierra 875 3G Aircard, HP iPaq Classic 110 Provider(s): AT&T Mobility Devices: WiFi cards/Access points Thanks: 3 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts Images: 50 My Auctions	That was a sarcastic joke... What is it that Cingular and Verizon charge for that you think is unjustifiable? __________________

06-26-2002, 8:11 AM	#10 (permalink)
bobolito iPhone 3G 16GB (White) Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Sanfrakota Posts: 12,398 Phone(s): iPhone 3G, RAZR V9, Sierra 875 3G Aircard, HP iPaq Classic 110 Provider(s): AT&T Mobility Devices: WiFi cards/Access points Thanks: 3 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts Images: 50 My Auctions	Why not consider Voicestream? I am sure their GSM coverage is and will be more realiable than AT&T. __________________

06-27-2002, 9:11 PM	#11 (permalink)
Mike Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tampa Bay Area Posts: 282 Phone(s): Motorola RAZR V3, Motorola V60c, Motorola V551 Provider(s): T-Mobile, Verizon, Cingular Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I was looking at the Cingular Website and was actually reading the Plan Terms. Guess what I found there? Cingular - Unanswered calls of 30 seconds or longer incur airtime. AT&T - You will incur a charge for busy or unconnected calls if you do not end the call within 30 seconds. Gee, sounds about the same thing, unanswered, unconnected. What is more amazing is that I actually read the terms. __________________ Mike a/k/a Shepp elsewhere on the net http://www.pcsws.com/ T-Mobile is the third largest wireless network in the world - and growing!

06-21-2002, 11:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
theyallstink Junior Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Verizon just made a change in June that all incoming calls would be clocked from the time the call hits the VZW network not from when the customer accepts the call. So that means if you talk for 50 seconds on an incoming call and think you slid in under a minute, think again, you probably didn't! Don't fret, unanswered calls are not charged.

06-22-2002, 7:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
tourman Fresh Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 48 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What about calls that go to voicemail?

06-22-2002, 3:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
Guest Posts: n/a	I presume they did this to avoid lawsuits or have to deal with grandfathering . Anyway it gives me an early repreive to got out of my poor Atlanta service AT&T SE contract .

06-22-2002, 7:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
ATLguy Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 175 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	How do you get billed long distance for calling 411? Do I need to start dialing 1-411 when out of my home area? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

06-25-2002, 7:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
KevinJames WA's 1st retired mod Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Central Valley NorCA Posts: 2,587 Phone(s): Nokia 6126 Provider(s): the new AT&T Devices: Bluetooth devices--MotoHS820, Garmin Nuvi 660 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Now Bobo, here I thought you were a voice for reasonableness. ATT, for those of you that don't know, has extended the services rendered by 411 operators. Seeing as their operators can now be engaged on a single call up to several minutes as opposed to a few seconds, I feel ATT is fully justified in charging the amount. It was already 99 cents. They merely raised it 26 cents more. Given the services, I think it is reasonable. Also, as more and more people adopt web-enabled phones, they will use the web to find phone numbers and not 411. As far as ATT charging for for everytime you turn on your phone, I think Verizon has them beat there. And Cingular, don't even get me started about that subject.

06-25-2002, 8:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
SiemensS40 Fresh Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It would help if a) ANY 411 service actually had an up-to-date list. I can't remember how many times I've tried asked for a number to a business I will later drive up to and that has been in the same place for 7+ years and AT&T tells me they have no listing, yet when I get to the establishment and they look in the phone book whoop there it is. And b)it would also be nice if they connected you to the correct number. Screw me a couple times, I'm through with you. I will never use 411 again unless it is an absolute emergency, so the increased fee isn't a concern to me. I'm still strongly leaning toward GSM. So I may still use this as an out. I really don't travel much outside GSM areas, but I hold on to my non-gsm service because those times that I do I would like to have sevice. I guess I could always- gasp- use a payphone! I've just really liked AT&T and hate to abandon them just because they're being so slow with their GSM rollout.

06-28-2002, 9:41 AM	#12 (permalink)
ATLguy Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 175 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mike, At least the AT&T and Cingular "terms and conditions" are relatively straight forward ... and it isn't entirely unreasonable for them to bill for unanswered calls since they take up (minimal) network bandwidth while the connection remains "open". Your post prompted me to look at the terms that accompany some other carriers and here's what I found: --- Verizon Wireless: "Charges for calls that connect begin when you press “SEND” while placing a call, or upon connection to the system. On incoming calls, charges may begin prior to the phone ringing and before you press “SEND” to receive the call." VoiceStream: "Incoming and outgoing calls are rounded up and billed in full minute increments from the time the network begins to process the call (before the call rings or is answered) through its termination of the call." --- I'm thinking about sending a contract to the carriers that include my terms and conditions: "I may pay my bill as soon as it is received, or I may pay my bill in small increments over the next 12 months." "I may notify you of obvious billing errors, or I may let you figure it out by yourself. In either event, you won't be getting my money until the error is corrected." "For every minute (or fraction thereof) that I wait on hold when calling customer support, a credit of $0.50 will be added to my account." It really makes you wonder what bozo sits around all day and comes up with these ridiculous "terms and conditions". I'd rather pay more money each month in exchange for terms that I can actually understand. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] ATLguy

06-28-2002, 11:18 AM	#13 (permalink)
JBradM Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 87 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Does this affect the SunCom customers? I really want to get out of my contract with them so I can do some changing! I really need out of the last three months! any suggestions?

07-02-2002, 12:19 PM	#14 (permalink)
Joe0378 Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 553 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	<< "For every minute (or fraction thereof) that I wait on hold when calling customer support, a credit of $0.50 will be added to my account." ATLguy >> LOL....I like that one. If that's the case, they'd be paying me for me using their service. =)

07-10-2002, 8:29 PM	#15 (permalink)
WirelessBeachBum Soylent Green is People Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hilton Head Island, SC Posts: 2,748 Phone(s): 6800 Provider(s): Alltel Wireless Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Auctions	One of the most complicated things in communications is 411, it is amazing how many places a business has to go to ensure that a phone number is listed correctly there are only a couple of Nationwide directory sources LSSI is one in use by many carriers on the east coast. Not only does your local phone company list the businesses in LSSI but also in local D.A.'s when I managed a CLEC/wireless company Directory Assistance was a bigger headache than even local number portability. __________________ WirelessBeachBum

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Jack Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,475 Phone(s): Motorola T720 Provider(s): Alltel Devices: Sirius Satellite radio, ipod, laptop, pda Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	true Jack

07-11-2002, 12:47 PM	#17 (permalink)
Guest Posts: n/a	I NEED TO GET OUTTA MY VOICESTREAM CONTRACT. CAN I USE THEIR WHOLE NAME CHANGE AS A CLAUSE TO CANCEL???? HELP!

07-11-2002, 1:20 PM	#18 (permalink)
bobolito iPhone 3G 16GB (White) Join Date: May 2002 Location: New Sanfrakota Posts: 12,398 Phone(s): iPhone 3G, RAZR V9, Sierra 875 3G Aircard, HP iPaq Classic 110 Provider(s): AT&T Mobility Devices: WiFi cards/Access points Thanks: 3 Thanked 11 Times in 10 Posts Images: 50 My Auctions	Well, the way Verizon puts it sounds like they wanna charge you even for turning your phone on. ATLGuy, here is another one for your terms and conditions: "For every minute, or fraction thereof, that I have to ask the other party to repeat what they said due to a weak reception, I will receive a credit of one minute of airtime. Seconds taken in this process will be rounded to the next full minute." __________________

12-09-2002, 8:50 PM	#19 (permalink)
analogkid I made my first post! Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Want to get out of your AT&T Contract? I realize that the 411 clause was from August, 2002, but I'm wondering if there's any way to get out of an AT&T wireless contract now? Anyone have any ideas? Thanks.

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