GSM Tower Locations in S.E. Vermont

[VT Blue]

Good morning!

I have switched to AT&T from VZW for the iPhone...I travel a ton and it works beautifully when I'm on the road and with all of my Apple computers, etc.

The problem, of course, is coverage. Our vacation home is located on top of a hill in Putney with excellent exposure east and south (woods to the west). I get a great AT&T signal on cloudy days when the wind blows from j-u-u-s-t the right direction. Otherwise, I'm hosed.

I desperately need the approximate addresses (or lat/long) of the nearest 1900 mhz towers so that I can aim a new Yari(?) directional roof antenna this morning. Have gone the whole Wilson electronics route with two cell amplifiers, indoor antenna, etc, etc,

It is desperate, isn't it? http://forums.wirelessadvisor.com/im...lies/smile.gif

Yes, I realize AT&T will kick me off the system with 40% roaming calls, however, the bulk of my calls are from where we live, which is outside of VT and smack dab in the middle of AT&T territory.

So far, AT&T has said their nearest tower is in Keene, NH. Unfortunately I'm going to need a closer one to hone in on...one that AT&T has a sharing/roaming service contract with.

I've searched virtually every tower web site but am still at a loss. Some list the towers but not the frequency/phone company affiliation.

I've been reading this forum tonight for the first time tonight am impressed at the knowledge and civility that's displayed. Nice model for others to follow, regardless of topic.

Anyway, thanks for listening. Bob

[dmarkson]

There are no 1900 MHz GSM cells near you. I expect the closest ones would be near Keene (AT&T & T-Mobile). There should be Unicel 850MHz towers much closer to you and that is your best bet - unless your amp/yagi is 1900-only.. The iPhone uses both 850 and 1900.

Your best bet for signal would be 850 MHz from the east.

None of the maps are of any use to help you locate the nearest cells. You would need to hook everything up (including phone) and have a second person watch the signal strength on the phone. I believe the iPhone will go into field test so that you can see actual dBm readings.

[VT Blue]

Thanks so much for your informative reply.

I was afraid of that. Spoke to AT&T last night and they gave me the location of the tower in Keene which, as you've noted, is 1900.

The good news is that AT&T specifically stated they will be putting up a new tower on Route 9 just east of the VT border/Connecticut River...they would not tell me when but it is marked as a future site. That will be an enormous help to me and others in this situation.

My first foray into this involved a dual band antenna that I have mounted right now. Unfortunately, it's omni-directional and gives up a bit of the performance that a directional provides (at least that's what I'm told). That manifests itself via a lack of consistency wrt signal strength. Seriously, everything can go to heck in a hand-basket depending upon whether it's sunny out and which way the wind is blowing. I have two in-line amps, and a Wilson interior antenna. Things are much, much better since I installed the Wilson interior antenna (used to have a 3" stubby mounted directly to the 3 watt amp) but there continue to be bad/no signal days and my clients are not happy about that. Wonder if I'll tan better with that thing so close...

Anyway, I've heard Yagi's are effective but don't know if it's going to be good enough. I'm putting one up tomorrow morning (1900 mhz, though, rats!) with the help of a friend and will aim it toward Keene in the (distant) hope of at least a consistent signal. Is this just a pipe dream on my part? Do you know where the 850 Unicell one is that's east of me (NE, E, SE?) and do you think I should just bag the 1900 and order an 850 Yagi?

Yes, I've used the iPhone's field test mechanism before...Wilson's website had the 'how-to' on that. Very cool and I see it being useful when mounting a new antenna.

Sorry for being long-winded and all of the questions...it's just nice to speak to someone knowledgeable about this as no one else seems to be wrt to this area.

Thx. Bob

[dmarkson]

When you get a good signal, have you gone into field test to see what network and band it is? I can't image its anything but Unicel 850. AT&T has the annoying habit of always saying AT&T on the screen even when you are roaming. It seems highly unlikely you are hitting AT&T. AT&T is running 850 in MA, but that is far far away and there are not towers at the border last I checked. The closest 1900 tower is probably in NH, although perhaps they are filling in the I-91 to Keene section along Rt 9. 1900 coverage does not go all that far, although I suppose if you are up on a hill and have direct line of site towards Keene you might pick up something.

AT&T is long overdue to install *SOMETHING* in VT. They have been strangely absent. Now that Verizon is buying Unicel (and converting SVT customers to CDMA), AT&T has no choice but to build build build.

I guess if you are getting up on the roof anyways you can see if you can hit anything 1900. I hope you have super low loss cable. If that does not work then you need to invest in an 850 system or wait for AT&T to install a closer cell.

[VT Blue]

Yes, definitely have super low-loss cable; my arm and leg have yet to grow back after paying for that...

According to Wilson's guide and my iPhone, the signal I'm picking up is listed as "FQ: 538" which is 1900 MHz. The strength I'm getting at this moment is -83 db. In fact, of the four signals the phone is receiving right now this is the strongest; the weakest is -108. Interestingly, all are 1900(!).

Why I'm not picking up anything in the 850 range may have more to do with the external antenna than anything else.

The cool -- and yet frustrating -- thing is that the iPhone gives the Cell ID# and an assigned location. I've gone to the FCC's website and scoured Google and cannot find a place to reference this tower/learn more about it. That seems crazy. One would think there would be a quick/easy way to look this type of information up.

I'm not sure AT&T will do anything in VT...no one else is, for that matter (broadband, etc). The numbers would be hard to justify as there are more sheep than people and a very low density of population outside of Burlington.

Again, I greatly appreciate your insight. Thx.

[VT Blue]

Just found this link: Wireless Tower Siting Contacts

May have to call them Monday.

[dmarkson]

FQ is the GSM channel number, and as you have stated, that is 1900 (PCS band A to be more specific). The question now is who the provider of that cell is. What is the network? - its on the same screen with the location and cell ID.

[VT Blue]

Network is 410, though I haven't a clue what that means/who it applies to.

[VT Blue]

Above "Network 410" is "# 310" for what it's worth.

Hieroglyphics to me...

Thx. Bob

[dmarkson]

That is a very important clue. That is the provider of the cell. 410=AT&T. So you are connected to an AT&T cell. I guess there is one closer than expected. -83 dBm is pretty good. Is that with the new Yagi installed?

FYI:

The # refers to country code
310=USA

GSM Networks in the area:
260=T-Mobile
410=AT&T
890=Unicel

[VT Blue]

Wow! That is good news!!

No, this is with the dual-band marine antenna. Yagi goes on tomorrow morning, provided we don't get the nor'easter for too long.

You are an absolute oracle of information. I really appreciate it. This gives me hope that AT&T won't bounce me if too many calls come out of here. And, perhaps more importantly to my clients, I'll have a better/more consistent signal when the Yagi is installed.

Of course the key will making sure it is pointed in the right direction. AT&T gave me the address/intersection of their Keene tower so I suppose I should shoot for that...will have to rely on the iPhone field test, I suppose.

Btw, the info AT&T gave me for their closest tower was: Keene, on Daniel's Hill Road south of Rte 9 and near Base Hill Road.

Hope that is useful though I'm sure it's old news to you.

Thx!

Bob

[VT Blue]

Forgot to add: While it's 83 now, there are times that I all but lose the signal; 2 to 3 bars appear but no "E" Edge network indicator, etc. Clients will call and it will go straight to VM and I cannot make any outgoing calls (endless "Call Failed" beeps, etc). Without the Edge bit I never even know there's a voicemail, of course. This has been the catalyst for some excitement I just don't need.

[dmarkson]

Depending exactly where you are in Putney, it looks to be about 12 air miles to the tower in Keene, which is not that usual with a roof antenna and direct line of site. If that is what you are picking up now, you will be golden when the new cell comes online.

Although AT&T does roam on Unicel in many areas, AT&T locks out the ability to select the network, so unless the AT&T signal is completely gone the phone will not even search for Unicel. However, from what you have said (no service without the antenna), it does not sound like Unicel has a site anywhere nearby.

Both Unicel and AT&T should have EDGE deployed on their local networks. It's possible that when you lose the "E", the phone is searching for a signal, locks on to Unicel, and then goes back to AT&T. During that time all calls would go to voicemail. Next time that happens go into field test and see what the network is. The other possibility is that someone is testing a new cell site. How long has that been going on?

[VT Blue]

Really? They lock out Unicel/other carriers like that? Arrggghhh... Good info to know.

Yes, everyone around here will be much, much better off when that new tower goes in. There's a void in SE VT, whether coming up 91 from MA or heading into the hills around our area. My only concern is when they say "future" -- how far out is that? Rhetorical question, that's all.

Btw, with the strong signal I currently have, I jumped on the regional weather radar and saw Noel heading this way...it's coming from the east, of course, and I have to wonder if the wind direction helps to "carry" the signal from Keene. Just a thought...

Again, I sincerely appreciate all of your assistance on this. Will let you know/post info once we get the Yagi up. Hopefully the weather will be okay in the AM to get on a tall ladder.

Have a great weekend!

Bob

[VT Blue]

Sorry, had missed your last question regarding how long the lost signal/going to VM has been going on (was VZW prior to this -- loved their network).

I've had the iPhone since July 1 and this has occurred since then. I must say that things have improved a bit with the addition of (too much) Wilson stuff, the roof mounted antenna, etc., though not as much as I had initially hoped, hence the Yagi.

For instance: Right now I have zero bars, no "E." The best signal is showing a network of 410 (AT&T), 1900 MHz, and a signal strength of -80 db.

There are also two lines: C1 30 and C2 30. No clue what they are.

See, this is the frustrating thing: From 5 bars/Edge when we were conversing earlier, to zero bars, no Edge (though it still says "AT&T").

Any ideas?

Thx!

Bob

[dmarkson]

Something is not making a lot of sense. Where are you getting -80 and no bars? Is this inside with the micro cell? Or is this outside?

How are you using the internet if you have no signal? If you have broadband perhaps you should look into VOIP as a backup.

[VT Blue]

Yes, it is inside at my desk, the same place, etc., as when I was writing earlier. Nothing has changed.

And I am on broadband here (svcable.net) with a cable hook-up. There's a land-line, too, but my clients are all over -- best they have one line to contact me on...not good if our young son answers, either, at least optically.

See, this is very strange. Great signal one minute, nothing the next. I just don't understand.

[dmarkson]

You are receiving the signal from the amp and that is giving you the -80.What is the max signal you are able to get on the roof with just the cell?

When the amp loses the AT&T signal it must take some time to drop its output power, or its getting confused. I'm not sure exactly how the amp works when it loses the signal, but it must think there is some signal left.

[VT Blue]

I can't get on the roof but I just stood on the deck (facing east) and had 90 db with 4 bars and no Edge logo.

Don't know about the amp and it's loss of signal/power...I'm pretty much a neophyte.

Okay, am back inside at my desk (phone is in its cradle again) and I have 5 bars, no Edge and 82 db.

Again, no Edge, though...

[dmarkson]

When you are on the deck with -90, what provider are you connected to, and can you make/receive calls?

[VT Blue]

Great questions.

On the deck it's 410/AT&T and, no, I cannot make/receive calls (despite 4 bars - no Edge).

[TelcomJunkie]

Originally Posted by VT Blue Great questions. On the deck it's 410/AT&T and, no, I cannot make/receive calls (despite 4 bars - no Edge).

If you can't make calls outside then it's very slim that the Wilson will help significantly. The amps are not selective and simply bring in the entire PCS/Cellular band, so if it's receiving a poor signal outside it's just going to amplify that poor signal and blast your phone with a high power, yet poor quality signal.

[dmarkson]

Hmmm. Feel free to AIM me if you want.

I wonder if the -90 dBm signal on the deck is coming from the micro cell. Turn it off just to make sure it's not.

How long have you had this signal? Since July? The reason I ask is that it sounds like the behavior when a new cell is coming on line. It starts without being able to use it, and without data. The strange thing is that that cell is usually barred (not available for properly programmed phones) until its ready for use.

Also, If the -90 dBm signal on your decl is not coming from the micro cell, and its 1900, it has to be closer than Keene (I assume you are not hundreds of feet HAAT).

[VT Blue]

Oh, boy, what till you hear this!

Okay, I shut down the micro site and turned the phone off and back on w/the micro site off.

I then went onto the deck and here's what I found:
- Network: 890
- Signal: -70 db

All 5 bars, the AT&T logo AND Edge.

Huh?

Am I better w/my micro site off?

Yikes...

Thx!

Bob

[TelcomJunkie]

Originally Posted by VT Blue Oh, boy, what till you hear this! Okay, I shut down the micro site and turned the phone off and back on w/the micro site off. I then went onto the deck and here's what I found: - Network: 890 - Signal: -70 db All 5 bars, the AT&T logo AND Edge. Huh? Am I better w/my micro site off? Yikes... Thx! Bob

Sounds like it. Also sounds like the yagi antenna isn't aimed correctly.

[VT Blue]

Originally Posted by TelcomJunkie Sounds like it. Also sounds like the yagi antenna isn't aimed correctly.

Yagi will not be up until tomorrow. Current antenna is a bi-band marine that's non-directional.

Thx!

Bob

[dmarkson]

Well that explains a lot!

Has the signal improved since you put in the amp? Do you get decent signals inside without the micro cell now? Of course you are roaming and could get hit with the 40% rule.

It seemed unusual that Unicel did not have a closer tower than that. Plus 850 goes approx twice the distance as 1900

Since you have all the equipment its probably worth it trying the yagi. It seems the marine antenna was not that useful.

[VT Blue]

It very possibly could be that there's been an improvement in signal (Unicel) since I've had the site up, which has been for the past couple of months. I never got a signal in my office before, at least not one that I remember. No here I am now and still have pegged bars.

Bummer it's Unicel though/the 40% rule.

Will try the Yagi tomorrow and see what comes of it.

Huge thx!

Bob

[dmarkson]

Unicel has been putting up quite a few new sites lately. They just turned on a silo site in Cabot, giving the village its very first measurable cell service.

[VT Blue]

Sorry, one more thing:

My external antenna is dual-band...so why didn't it pick up/enhance the Unicel signal?

It's dual 800MHz and 1900MHz...not 850MHz. My bad...