What is it about NIMBY's and NJ?

[larry]

Here we go again:

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?n...d=425643&rfi=6

[Matt]

It would help TM to be there

[bobolito]

Doesn't look bad for Cingular on that same spot.

[JFB]

NJ is made up of 566 cities/towns. That is an incredible number considering the state is one of the smallest. Most of those towns are very small in terms of square miles and population. Each town has their own mayor, council and zoning boards. All of those people want a say when a tower proposal comes in. And since these are small towns, if just a few people speak up, they have a lot of pull.

[Fullstrength]

Its Princeton probably the most nimby town in the world. These people arent happy unless they are complaining or making up some cause which doesnt have any bearing on reality.

[chuikov]

I really should stop reading articles like that... .

The argument that pops up even more often than the "health concerns" is the "need" issue. Municipalities who want to keep towers out always include a provision requiring carriers to prove they need the cell site(s).

This one drives me nuts. First, why would any for-profit business go around spending a bunch of money building and maintaining facilities that were unnecessary? If McDonalds or a Mom and Pop antiques store applies for a permit to build a store, they do not need to prove they need the store? No, they just need to follow the proper codes, and they get approved.

Wireless is held to a higher standard than almost any other industry as usual.

These local boards are in no way qualified to understand the RF testimony explaining the necessity of new sites anyway. They sit there and listen, and then vote no. In the official decision the solicitor will claim the necessity wasn't proven. It's Hogwash.

BTW: This is a big reason that carriers are disinclined to share coverage maps with the public. That overly optimistic Cingular map might come back to haunt them when they try to build new sites. Joe Nimby will stand up with a full color print-out and say "see, they don't need a tower in out township - its mosty orange already!"

[bobolito]

Originally Posted by chuikov BTW: This is a big reason that carriers are disinclined to share coverage maps with the public. That overly optimistic Cingular map might come back to haunt them when they try to build new sites. Joe Nimby will stand up with a full color print-out and say "see, they don't need a tower in out township - its mosty orange already!"

That is SOOOOOO true! NIMBY's as well as the zoning boards have little to no understanding that sometimes a new site is needed not for coverage reasons but for capacity reasons. Try to explain a NIMBY that an already covered area needs a new tower to increase capacity. It's like talking to a wall.

[chuikov]

Originally Posted by bobolito That is SOOOOOO true! NIMBY's as well as the zoning boards have little to no understanding that sometimes a new site is needed not for coverage reasons but for capacity reasons. Try to explain a NIMBY that an already covered area needs a new tower to increase capacity. It's like talking to a wall.

It's brutal! Capacity sites are rough!

[Andy]

These NIMBY articles make me mad, lol. It's not even funny anymore to read about people and the way they think. cuickov made a great point in his post. Even if Wireless Carriers try to follow code and even go the extra mile, people still aren't happy about it, but they are the first ones to call that specific carrier mad because their coverage at home stinks. Honestly, in today's world your real estate value of your house is gonna go up instead of down for having cell coverage. I would personally never move into an area with no cell coverage because of NIMBYs, period. I wouldn't move there.

Are people all over the U.S. like this or is it just California and parts of the East Coast???

[chuikov]

http://www.psotd.com/money's_the_question,_not_the_answer/

I just wish these folks could see forward - just a little?

Nope! It's PA!

[bobolito]

Originally Posted by Andy84094 Are people all over the U.S. like this or is it just California and parts of the East Coast???

NIMBY species have been discovered in parts of Europe and the caribbean as well. I hope that answers your question.

[Fire14]

Originally Posted by Andy84094 Are people all over the U.S. like this or is it just California and parts of the East Coast???

You would be suprised at how much NJ and CA have in common, and I am sure they are all over the US, but we seem to deal with it more between these 2 states & as bobolito stated in Europe they have a bunch of NIMBY'ers and now the Caribbean

[TurboDan]

NJ elected a governor who ran on raising taxes in 2005. It's a backwards state all around! As someone else said, I really believe most of these NIMBY fights are made up of people that simply want something to grab onto as a "cause" to overcompensate for their otherwise-boring existence.

In my experience, however, NJ's problem isn't necessarily a lack of towers, but bad network layout and configuration.

[Critic]

Originally Posted by TurboDan NJ elected a governor who ran on raising taxes in 2005. It's a backwards state all around! As someone else said, I really believe most of these NIMBY fights are made up of people that simply want something to grab onto as a "cause" to overcompensate for their otherwise-boring existence. In my experience, however, NJ's problem isn't necessarily a lack of towers, but bad network layout and configuration.

Actually, that's not true. Both Forrester and Corzine advertised property tax decreases - it was only after Corzine was in office and discovered how much of a hole McGreevey/Codey had left that the other shoe dropped.

I could say at this point that I feel like a sucker for voting for Corzine last November, but a) I sincerely doubt Forrester could have done anything differently, had he been elected, and b) Forrester came across as a major putz on TV. (Oh, and c) his campaign HQ was about 2 blocks from my apartment, and there were a lot of Texas plates in the parking lot - and those cars had lots of "W" bumper stickers on them.)

[Fullstrength]

Originally Posted by Critic Actually, that's not true. Both Forrester and Corzine advertised property tax decreases - it was only after Corzine was in office and discovered how much of a hole McGreevey/Codey had left that the other shoe dropped. I could say at this point that I feel like a sucker for voting for Corzine last November, but a) I sincerely doubt Forrester could have done anything differently, had he been elected, and b) Forrester came across as a major putz on TV. (Oh, and c) his campaign HQ was about 2 blocks from my apartment, and there were a lot of Texas plates in the parking lot - and those cars had lots of "W" bumper stickers on them.)

Forrester didnt have a many political obligations are Corzine that why he was the right choice, if the democrats were smart they would found a weak candidate and let the republicans win. So they could blame the new governor however the last 3 governors were democrats ( not necessarily 4 yrs terms

[Critic]

Three governors? Even if you count Codey twice, he technically 'shared' the Acting Governorship the first time around with three Republicans after Whitman resigned, and didn't have near as much authority as he did this most recent go-around.

[Fullstrength]

Originally Posted by Critic Three governors? Even if you count Codey twice, he technically 'shared' the Acting Governorship the first time around with three Republicans after Whitman resigned, and didn't have near as much authority as he did this most recent go-around.

We had a chair position for about 3-4 weeks, because Codey couldnt hold the seat anymore, and Corzine wasnt swore in. I am looking for the name of the guy but he is head democrate for the state.

[TurboDan]

We would've avoided this entire mess if Brett Schundler just won the first time! The dumb Republican elite didn't give him any party support since they had their panties in a bunch that Forrester wasn't the nominee.

New Jersey politics is a joke, anyway. Between droves of dead people voting every year in Hudson County to actually oversseing and regulating corruption via "Pay to Play" laws, we'll never have an efficient system of government. I wish someone like Mark Warner (D-VA) would run, but I'm sure the people would find that he was too honest o be electable!

[Fire14]

Originally Posted by Fullstrength We had a chair position for about 3-4 weeks, because Codey couldnt hold the seat anymore, and Corzine wasnt swore in. I am looking for the name of the guy but he is head democrate for the state.

Not Joe Cryan, is it?

[Fullstrength]

Originally Posted by TurboDan We would've avoided this entire mess if Brett Schundler just won the first time! The dumb Republican elite didn't give him any party support since they had their panties in a bunch that Forrester wasn't the nominee. New Jersey politics is a joke, anyway. Between droves of dead people voting every year in Hudson County to actually oversseing and regulating corruption via "Pay to Play" laws, we'll never have an efficient system of government. I wish someone like Mark Warner (D-VA) would run, but I'm sure the people would find that he was too honest o be electable!

I almost fell off my chair when i read that last line, Hilarious but unfortunately accurate.

[bobolito]

Ok, I think there isn't much to say about this topic. Thanks for eveyone who contributed. The topic is now closed.