Verizon and declining AMPS phones

[Yankees368]

I have noticed that almost every one on verizons upcomming phones will not support analog? Are they phasing out their AMPS network, even though they have to keep 'em running till like 2008? Any reason for this?

[Pipeman]

Verizon now feels that their digital nationwide network is so comprehensive, AMPS phones have become redundant. It's like selling AM/FM radios when everyone only listens to FM amyway.

[discjoker]

Originally posted by: Pipeman
It's like selling AM/FM radios when everyone only listens to FM amyway.

Hmmm...maybe where you're from. However, the number one most listened to radio station in Boston is an AM station.

[jayc]

Originally posted by: Yankees368
I have noticed that almost every one on verizons upcomming phones will not support analog? Are they phasing out their AMPS network, even though they have to keep 'em running till like 2008? Any reason for this?

I think there will be an analog selection for a while longer... people have long said exactly what you've said being there won't be any upcoming analog phones yet i've seen about 5 released since then.

[BillRadio]

Originally posted by: Yankees368
I have noticed that almost every one on verizons upcomming phones will not support analog?

I still see phones with analog coming.

Are they phasing out their AMPS network, even though they have to keep 'em running till like 2008?

Verizon would be smart to convert most of their customers to digital to save bandwidth. However, there are hundreds of thousands of users who cannot convert to digital, like OnStar customers. So, Verizon would also be smart to keep some kind of analog service intact long after 2008.

Any reason for this?

One of the major reasons why fewer phones are being supplied with analog is that digital-only phones can be built in a much smaller case. This gets a certain segment of the market all excited and buy new phones and possibly switch to, or not leave, Verizon.

-Bill

[GoodmanR]

Originally posted by: jayc

I think there will be an analog selection for a while longer... people have long said exactly what you've said being there won't be any upcoming analog phones yet i've seen about 5 released since then.

jayc, you have been among those saying verizon was done with AMPS, you just argued that AMPS was worthless...

Verizon isn't declining AMPS phones, many of us, including myself were incorrect about this. Verizon has STOPPED REQUIRING manufacturers to build AMPS enabled phones. Manufacturers who wish to include AMPS on their handsets, still can, and Verizon will not reject them. On some handsets, PDA ones specifically, Verizon has disabled AMPS through firmware. Not sure as to why, probably a battery life issue, if the phone switches to AMPS in an urban area, could just kill the PDA battery life, not really sure...

But the V810, a Motorola camera phone, looks like it will be analog enabled. Motorola is still producing analog phones, it looks like samsung and lg are not.

[Yankees368]

Manufacturers who wish to include AMPS on their handsets, still can, and Verizon will not reject them. On some handsets, PDA ones specifically, Verizon has disabled AMPS through firmware. Not sure as to why, probably a battery life issue.

Lets just say your in an area without any digital service, but has analog service. Since the phone is analog capable but it is disabled in the firmware, can it still make a 911 call on analog? Will the phone be able to make emergency calls on analog?

[jayc]

Originally posted by: GoodmanR

jayc, you have been among those saying verizon was done with AMPS, you just argued that AMPS was worthless...

Verizon isn't declining AMPS phones, many of us, including myself were incorrect about this. Verizon has STOPPED REQUIRING manufacturers to build AMPS enabled phones. Manufacturers who wish to include AMPS on their handsets, still can, and Verizon will not reject them. On some handsets, PDA ones specifically, Verizon has disabled AMPS through firmware. Not sure as to why, probably a battery life issue, if the phone switches to AMPS in an urban area, could just kill the PDA battery life, not really sure...

But the V810, a Motorola camera phone, looks like it will be analog enabled. Motorola is still producing analog phones, it looks like samsung and lg are not.

I've simply said they're moving away from analog phones, and yes I care nothing about having analog and would rather not have it on my phone. I think you've summed it up well with "Verizon has STOPPED REQUIRING manufactuers to build AMPS enabled phones." As far as PDAs go I agree with you there as well... battery life is the major issue for sure.

[Jerro]

BILL Radio wrote[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]uote

Verizon would be smart to convert most of their customers to digital to save bandwidth. However, there are hundreds of thousands of users who cannot convert to digital, like OnStar customers. So, Verizon would also be smart to keep some kind of analog service intact long after 2008.
_____________

OnStar has begun converting to digital.

[crood]

Isn't this all in line with what the other providers are doing. T-Mobile doesn't do analog. Cingular and AT&T are moving from TDMA to GSM and leaving analog behind.

[GoodmanR]

Originally posted by: Jerro
BILL Radio wrote[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-shocked.gif[/img]uote

Verizon would be smart to convert most of their customers to digital to save bandwidth. However, there are hundreds of thousands of users who cannot convert to digital, like OnStar customers. So, Verizon would also be smart to keep some kind of analog service intact long after 2008.
_____________

OnStar has begun converting to digital.

OnStar is moving to CDMA. New units sold will be CDMA. Verizon has basically converted all NEW customers to digital, but there is no real way to force people off the old analog networks. Most of the analog only uses rarely use their phones, so are not much of a bandwith concern.

Yankees,

If it is disabled in the firmware, you would not be able to call 911 using AMPS. Its simply not usable, its like the phone doesn't support it.

[GoodmanR]

Originally posted by: crood
Isn't this all in line with what the other providers are doing. T-Mobile doesn't do analog. Cingular and AT&T are moving from TDMA to GSM and leaving analog behind.

A correct point but not really relevant. No NEW AMPS construction has been done for quite some time. VoiceStream/Tmobile never built an analog network. Sprint sold its analog assets to build Sprint PCS. Cingular (Bellsouth, PacBell etc..) and ATT moved a long time ago from AMPS to TDMA. Now they are moving to GSM. There is no AMPS/GSM phone because they are completely diffrerent technologies and there can be no call handoff. Verizon has not built new AMPS networks or equiptment in quite some time, but that doesn't mean they do not operate it. ATT and Cingular also currently operate multi-layered networks, in many areas AMPS/TDMA/GSM. AMPS remains the dominant standard in parts of the rural west, and until network overlays are complete, AMPS will still be around.

[crood]

Originally posted by: GoodmanR

A correct point but not really relevant. No NEW AMPS construction has been done for quite some time. VoiceStream/Tmobile never built an analog network. Sprint sold its analog assets to build Sprint PCS. Cingular (Bellsouth, PacBell etc..) and ATT moved a long time ago from AMPS to TDMA. Now they are moving to GSM. There is no AMPS/GSM phone because they are completely diffrerent technologies and there can be no call handoff. Verizon has not built new AMPS networks or equiptment in quite some time, but that doesn't mean they do not operate it. ATT and Cingular also currently operate multi-layered networks, in many areas AMPS/TDMA/GSM. AMPS remains the dominant standard in parts of the rural west, and until network overlays are complete, AMPS will still be around.

My point was why is Verizon the only major carrier that's expected to continue to support analog, when all of the others have or will soon abandon it.

[MeatChicken]

Originally posted by: crood
My point was why is Verizon the only major carrier that's expected to continue to support analog, when all of the others have or will soon abandon it.

Actually it is any 800Mhz carrier (VZW being the largest), that is "expected/required" to support analog at least thru 2007.
There has never been analog on 1900Mhz, so talking about Sprint/Tmobile is moot.
AT & T is 800 in NYC & many areas, & they also can't dump analog on their systems any eariler than VZW can, regardless of what they may also be doing with GSM or TDMA.

[agentHibby]

Just remember that if a wireless company uses Cellular "800 MHz" they are required to have analog "even new towers"; even if the same company also has a PCS license in the area.
In PCS you are required to send out the digital signal. Analog is optional, so no one will send it in 1900 MHz; as far as I know there is no wireless phone that does analog at 1900 MHz.
AWS "Advanced Wireless Services” you are required to send out broadband voice and data FCC has approved WCDMA for the GSM users and CDMA-2000 for CDMA users at this time. Don't know when the FCC will action off AWS "1700 MHz and 2100 MHz" yet. I don't if EDGE or EV-DO will get approved, I sure someday soon EV-DV will be.

I think most people on this site know this, but for the people who don't here it is.

[MeatChicken]

... According to a VZW cell site Tech I have spoken to, none of the new cell sites they have added in the NY/NJ area over the last year or 2 have any analog, as they are Not Required to add any more analog sites in their "existing" analog coverage area.
I have verified this by going to a "new" cell site location & seeing full strenght, but when switching the phone over to Analog I still saw the crappy 2 bars, right undwer the new (all digital) cell site......

[kpm121]

Is it true that in some areas analog may actually work better? I was told that in mountainous areas or near water, analog signals travel better (Verizon tech support told me that digital signals tend to bounce off of large bodies of water and analog will work better). I thought this was one benefit of having a phone that will operate on either digital or analog.

[NYCDru]

Originally posted by: Yankees368

Lets just say your in an area without any digital service, but has analog service. Since the phone is analog capable but it is disabled in the firmware, can it still make a 911 call on analog? Will the phone be able to make emergency calls on analog?

Yankees: The phone doesn't have analog at all as in no chipset, no hardware. (Samsung a530, LGvx6000, etc.) Thus it can't use analog at all.

[GoodmanR]

Originally posted by: agentHibby
Just remember that if a wireless company uses Cellular "800 MHz" they are required to have analog "even new towers"; even if the same company also has a PCS license in the area.
In PCS you are required to send out the digital signal. Analog is optional, so no one will send it in 1900 MHz; as far as I know there is no wireless phone that does analog at 1900 MHz.
AWS "Advanced Wireless Services” you are required to send out broadband voice and data FCC has approved WCDMA for the GSM users and CDMA-2000 for CDMA users at this time. Don't know when the FCC will action off AWS "1700 MHz and 2100 MHz" yet. I don't if EDGE or EV-DO will get approved, I sure someday soon EV-DV will be.

I think most people on this site know this, but for the people who don't here it is.

Analog has never existed on 1900Mhz. 800 carriers are not required to place analog networks on new sites. Im not sure where you got that from. They are required to maintain existing analog networks, but not build anything new. The FCC cant really require a private company to invest capital where they dont want to do so. Im not sure what your talking about with EDGE and EV-DO needing approval. Both EDGE and EV-DO networks are in place and operating in the united states. THe licensing for EDGE and EV-DO has to do with the spectrum it is operated on. Carriers can operate EV-DO on an 1900MHZ network, and EDGE can be operated on a 1900MHZ network, using the same block of spectrum used for voice calls. Maybe you could clarify what your talking about, because it doesn't really fit together.

[GoodmanR]

They're not. People would be equally pissed if ATT, Sprint, Cingular, Alltel, USCC etc.. stopped putting AMPS on their TDMA or CDMA phones. The reason we don't hold ATT and Cingullar to that on the GSM side is that there is no compatability there. There is no other CDMA carrier that has newly introduced more than one or two phones (USCC with the SLider and vx6000) that do not support AMPS. Even Sprint, with their "all digital" network is throwing out tri-band phones almost exclusively now.

Originally posted by: crood

My point was why is Verizon the only major carrier that's expected to continue to support analog, when all of the others have or will soon abandon it.

[GoodmanR]

Originally posted by: NYCDru

Yankees: The phone doesn't have analog at all as in no chipset, no hardware. (Samsung a530, LGvx6000, etc.) Thus it can't use analog at all.

I believe he is talking about something like the i700, which was originally supposed to support AMPS (im 99% sure) but Verizon had it disabled through firmware.