Verizon and declining AMPS phones

[jones]

So, there are many of these analog-only 'zones' of coverage. If you were staying overnight, or had your car break down, or were skiing/snowmobiling, in one of these places, you would have no service with a digital-only phone. These areas are small, but quite numerous in the west. -Bill

The East lives a Faster Life than the West, Bill. Sometimes I wonder If I should Have Live in the West.
We want 100% Digital on Anything: From Cell Phones to Camera, TV, Radio and soon not just Digital Access like CableModem/ADSL but FIBER TO THE HOME.

And the West will be playing "Catch UP"

[barto]

I have noticed a few things with analog and digital. I have a Vx6000, V120c, and a V60i. The two motorolas switch to analog when it is available and Verizon CDMA isn't. But the Vx6000 in every instance has CDMA much longer and when it does loes the signal it finds another digital signal to use (90% of the time an extended network signal). I have tested this time and time again traveling I75 from Detroit to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Then from St. Ignas to Marquette. I do lose complete service in a few spots, but that is for all three phones. Also, the analog sucks the life right out of the motorola phones. This is not a very technical experiment, just my experiences.

[GoodmanR]

Originally posted by: barto I have noticed a few things with analog and digital. I have a Vx6000, V120c, and a V60i. The two motorolas switch to analog when it is available and Verizon CDMA isn't. But the Vx6000 in every instance has CDMA much longer and when it does loes the signal it finds another digital signal to use (90% of the time an extended network signal). I have tested this time and time again traveling I75 from Detroit to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Then from St. Ignas to Marquette. I do lose complete service in a few spots, but that is for all three phones. Also, the analog sucks the life right out of the motorola phones. This is not a very technical experiment, just my experiences.

Most things suck the life right out of motorola phones [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

[Chudman]

Originally posted by: kpm121 Is it true that in some areas analog may actually work better? I was told that in mountainous areas or near water, analog signals travel better (Verizon tech support told me that digital signals tend to bounce off of large bodies of water and analog will work better). I thought this was one benefit of having a phone that will operate on either digital or analog.

Radio signals are radio signals, regardless of the modulation systems used. Analog and digital signals will work the same with terrain, if both are in the same frequency band. 1.9GHz digital signals (PCS) will travel differently than 800MHz digital or analog signals only because of the frequency of the radio waves. HIgher frequencies tend to be more absorbed by foliage.

Your VZ tech guy may know how to fix phones, but he doesn't know his radio theory very well.

[agentHibby]

I can testify sometimes that once in awhile peopel think I am in a deep hole when I am in digital once in a great while I call them back in analog and the problem is gone. That has not happened since November but has been and on and off thing since 2002.
I do see alot of new phones on phonescoop.com that are tri-mode, so I do believe duel-band or tri-mode phones are there for people who do or do not want digital. I think it will be 50-50 mix by the summer.

[GoodmanR]

Originally posted by: Chudman Originally posted by: kpm121 Is it true that in some areas analog may actually work better? I was told that in mountainous areas or near water, analog signals travel better (Verizon tech support told me that digital signals tend to bounce off of large bodies of water and analog will work better). I thought this was one benefit of having a phone that will operate on either digital or analog. Radio signals are radio signals, regardless of the modulation systems used. Analog and digital signals will work the same with terrain, if both are in the same frequency band. 1.9GHz digital signals (PCS) will travel differently than 800MHz digital or analog signals only because of the frequency of the radio waves. HIgher frequencies tend to be more absorbed by foliage. Your VZ tech guy may know how to fix phones, but he doesn't know his radio theory very well.

while amps and cdma produce the same output and the signal travels just as far, they dont work just as well with weak signals. cdma seems to hold calls much better with lower signal than does AMPS.

[SNSE]

CDMA and to a certain extent GSM are more noise tolerant, based upon the design of the system, and, because you have a much wider signal to deal with (1.25 Mhz CDMA and 200Khz GSM versus 30Khz with Amps). With the wider channels, and specifications of the standards, they tend to show slower degradation in fading and sudden "dips" in signal level as opposed to the Analog call.

[agentHibby]

Finnaly after a few weeks I come to fix what I have said to clarify

Just remember that if a wireless company uses Cellular "800 MHz" they are required to have analog "even new towers"; even if the same company also has a PCS license in the area.

It is true that if you put a small unregister cell tower in area, and the company has a cellular license, it does not need analog. This is only true for tall free standing towers that are registered have to. In Nov-Dec 2002 when Verizon put the tower up in Lucas Iowa it has analog on it. So does the US Cellular tower built in May 2003.

In PCS you are required to send out the digital signal. Analog is optional, so no one will send it in 1900 MHz; as far as I know there is no wireless phone that does analog at 1900 MHz.

I say this because it could happen, but makes no sence to do this at this time. Many people think you can't do analog on PCS band which is 100% false. A wireless company can send out any signal they want to, except a jamming or blocking signal.

AWS "Advanced Wireless Services” you are required to send out broadband voice and data FCC has approved WCDMA for the GSM users and CDMA-2000 for CDMA users at this time. Don't know when the FCC will action off AWS "1700 MHz and 2100 MHz" yet. I don't if EDGE or EV-DO will get approved, I sure someday soon EV-DV will be.

The rule FCC set for Next Generation Septrum is to be in Broadband Voice and Data. What is your definition of Broadband???
So the FCC has to appove what they consider to be broadband. Some say CDMA 1XRTT is broadband 3G. Some say CDMA 1XRTT is 2.5G, FCC considers it to be broadband at this time. EDGE, EV-DO and EV-DV have not been appoved as far as I can see on thier website "I am sure soon they will before AWS acutions starts".
This does not mean that a wireless company 5 years from now that has a AWS license only in an area can't have analog. Once they put up something that is broadband, they can do analog or anything they want "But I do believe that no one would do this, but could; however it is possible".
Here is the AWS Blocks
A 1710-1720 and 2110-2120 20MHz
B 1720-1730 and 2120-2130 20MHz
C 1730-1735 and 2130-2135 10MHz
D 1735-1749 and 2135-2140 10MHz
E 1740-1755 and 2140-2155 30MHz

A PCS has 10 year build out deadline. AWS will have 15 year build out deadline.

I hope this helps to clarify [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]
If you don't understand something give me a personal message.

[SQFreak]

Does a technology need FCC approval?

EDGE is already deployed nationally I believe, at about 1xRTT speeds, by AT&T Wireless.
EV-DO is deployed in San Diego, CA and Washington, DC by Verizon Wireless. Verizon Wireless has plans to expand EV-DO Nationwide by the end of 2005.

[GoodmanR]

edge is significantly faster than 1xRTT

[agentHibby]

remember wireless company can transmit wants
the FCC requires a certain signal for each spectrum
Cellular 800MHZ analog AMPS until Jan 2008
PCS 1800and 1900MHz digital- any kind
AWS 1700 and 2100MHz broadband voice and data
SMR 700,800,900 MHz iDEN

As long send out the signal required for that license, you can send out anything else you want.
It won't be until 2005-2009 until the first AWS auction starts. "The reason is the military uses 1700 MHz and need to move off of it to a new band."
FCC only needs to approve that the signal is broadband "I am sure very soon it will since they have approved 1XRTT" They don't have to approve until FCC gives out AWS licenses. Approval is only for AWS and none else.