Cingular's BAD service when it comes to giving out a NEW phone for a defective & unrepairable phone still under warranty

[RonJeremy]

My wife's Nokia 3360 phone had a software defect in it and I brought it back to the Cingular store after owning the phone for 8 months. The technicians at the Cingular store sent the phone out to Nokia and they tried repairing it under the warranty. The phone came back from the Nokia repair center and it still didn't work properly. So Cingular gave me another Nokia 3360 phone, just like the Nokia 3360 model phone which I originally owned, but it was refurbished. I was really mad when they offered to give me a used and refurbished phone to replace my defective/unrepairable one which was still under warranty and only 8 months old. They wouldn't give me a brand new one. This is a bad business practice for Cingular.

My question here is why did the Cingular store give me a "refurbished" Nokia phone? Why didn't they want to give me a "brand new" Nokia phone when mine was defective and still under warranty? I demanded them to give me a brand new phone and they told me that they could not do that. Cingular told me that they only give out refurbished phones to customers who's current phones are still under warranty that are defective and unrepairable. To me, this is bulls**t.

Cingular should be able to give "brand new" phones to customers who's current phones are defective, unrepairable and still under warranty. Do all the Cingular stores give this type of B.S. excuse to their customers and tell them that they can only give refurbished phones to the customers who's cell phones are under warranty which cannot be repaired? I think that this is really bad business. Cingular should be able to give "brand new" phones in exchange for the defective unrepairable ones. Why don't they want to do this? This is not good.

[mothra76]

This is pretty standard practice, at least at verizon. Did the phone look new at least? I have gotten quite a few refurbished phones from Verizon and never really had any complaints. I could understand if they looked used and scratched up, mine never has. I would assume if you went through a bunch of refurbs with the same problem, then I could see them giving you a new model, or a new phone out of the box. You should feel somewhat lucky that they tried to fix your issue, my girlfriend had a sprint sanyo 4900 phone and always had problems on it with vision and they NEVER would give her another phone, they only tried to fix the software on the phone. They never got it fixed either and pretty much wouldnt even help her anymore. Look at your contract, it might say that they can replace a defective handset if under warranty with a new or refurbished model.

[steelmaniac]

LOL GOOD OL CINGULAR FOR YA...

[jmccrane]

Originally posted by: RonJeremy
My wife's Nokia 3360 phone had a software defect in it and I brought it back to the Cingular store after owning the phone for 8 months. The technicians at the Cingular store sent the phone out to Nokia and they tried repairing it under the warranty. The phone came back from the Nokia repair center and it still didn't work properly. So Cingular gave me another Nokia 3360 phone, just like the Nokia 3360 model phone which I originally owned, but it was refurbished. I was really mad when they offered to give me a used and refurbished phone to replace my defective/unrepairable one which was still under warranty and only 8 months old. They wouldn't give me a brand new one. This is a bad business practice for Cingular.

My question here is why did the Cingular store give me a "refurbished" Nokia phone? Why didn't they want to give me a "brand new" Nokia phone when mine was defective and still under warranty? I demanded them to give me a brand new phone and they told me that they could not do that. Cingular told me that they only give out refurbished phones to customers who's current phones are still under warranty that are defective and unrepairable. To me, this is bulls**t.

Cingular should be able to give "brand new" phones to customers who's current phones are defective, unrepairable and still under warranty. Do all the Cingular stores give this type of B.S. excuse to their customers and tell them that they can only give refurbished phones to the customers who's cell phones are under warranty which cannot be repaired? I think that this is really bad business. Cingular should be able to give "brand new" phones in exchange for the defective unrepairable ones. Why don't they want to do this? This is not good.

You know, refurbs go through more testing than new phones do. Besides, in many cases "brand new" phones aren't available anymore. If you read the warranty closely, it doesn't say anywhere you're entitled to a brand new phone. You got your used phone replaced with a tested used one. Seems ok to me. This is common practice with just about every carrier, BTW.

[ZaphodB]

I would tend to agree except that when I had a problem with my old V3682, I got a refurbished one and the action on the spring was shot. They said that wasn't cause enough to exchange it, so I ended up sitting down in the centre of the repair office in Burbank until I got a new one with a flip spring that worked properly.

Refurbished is one thing. Crap is quite another.

[njsvrzncdma]

That is standard procedure. You do not get a new phone for warranty issues from the company unless they are out or referbs. And as the last poster said the referbs are tested more then the new ones.

[RonJeremy]

Refurbished phones are still used phones. The one that they gave to me looked okay, but it didn't look like it was brand new. It did look used. The original defective Nokia phone that Cingular took from me in exchange for the refurbished one was in mint condition. I just think that giving a refurbished phone to a valued customer (yeah right) in exchange for the defective one is just them giving out a phone which is used and which is not in mint condition. Even if the refurbished phone works well, it still isn't a factory fresh and brand new mint condition phone. It isn't a virgin factory fresh brand new phone just like the original one which you bought brand new at the store. I don't think that this is right, no matter which carrier does it this way. This practice shows you that the cell phone manufacturers don't care about giving to their customers brand new products in exchange for defective unrepairable products which were originally purchased brand new by the customer in the first place. If the phones were purchased brand new by customers, then customers should in return get brand new phones if their original ones are factory defective and unrepairable by the manufacturer. Period.

The current stupid and unethical policy that all these phone manufacturers have regarding giving out refurbished phones to customers who bought their original phones brand new is bullsh*t. It's unacceptable. Customers are getting screwed when cell phone manufacturers do this unethical business practice to their valued (yeah right) customers.

[bobolito]

Well Ron, I have to disagree with you here. You gave them an 8-month-old phone. How can you expect them to give you a new one? When you buy a new car from a dealership, they won't take that car back as a brand new one after you used it for 8 months, would they?. Whenever you buy anything that's electronics, like a camcorder, a VCR, DVD player, etc. if it goes bad within the warranty period they can fix it and return it to you. However, if they cannot fix it, you can bet they won't give you a brand new one. They will give you a refurbished unit, or even a comparable model if they don't have the same. Now, if you buy insurance that's another story. But basically, whatever you buy, nobody will replace it for a brand new one unless the unit was bad from the first moment you got it or the unit went bad within a reasonably short timeframe.

In the same way, Cingular is not responsible to provide you with a phone because that's not part of the service, so you can't consider this bad business practice. You were simply under the wrong assumption that the carrier is supposed to provide you with a phone as part of the service. Guess what? Nowhere in this world, the phone is part of the service because you are not leasing the phone from the company. Instead, you OWN the phone and whatever happens to it only Nokia can help you with it. Cingular gave you a replacement because they can serve as mediators for Nokia, but not because they handle equipment failures or replacements. Whatever problems you have with your Nokia phone, it is not Cingular's problem, it is Nokia's problem. As I said, Cingular can serve as a Nokia representative in this case, but essentially, Cingular is not responsible for Nokia's problems.

Unfortunately, in the US, carrier's way of attaching phones to their name give customers the impression that phones are part of the carrier's service. Therefore, customers believe that carriers should be responsible for providing customers with new phones all the time. Unfortunately, people get this wrong idea all the time. The free-phone gimmick in the US is simply an effort to conquer more customers, but that doesn't mean they should provide you with a new phone for the life of the contract. If your phone breaks during the warranty period, they can only send it for repair or give you a used model because yours was already USED. But never they will give you a brand new phone because as I said you gave them a used one. Look at it this way, when they repaired your phone and returned it to you, they gave you your USED phone back. This is the same as if instead of repairing your USED phone they choose to give you another USED phone. Same deal.

Now, you feel the phone you gave them is in mint condition? Just change the faceplates to the refurbished one and you'll have a mint-condition phone again [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]....I'd be willing to bet the refurbished phone is in better shape inside, than yours was even though it didn't look like that from the outside.

Peace....

[RonJeremy]

Bobolito,

Okay, I agree with part of what you are saying here. It makes sense.

But Cingular had to send in my Nokia phone for repairs twice for the same problem. PLUS I had to keep visiting Cingular because my Nokia phone was having the same problems over and over again right AFTER Nokia repaired it the first time around. The first time that Nokia repaired the phone was when it was only 1 1/2 months old. The second time when I had to repair it again with the SAME PROBLEM was when it was 8 months old. They could of given me a brand new phone when I brought it in for repairs when it was only 1 1/2 months old rather than having me go thru the aggravation of bringing the phone back to the same Cingular technician over and over again right after the 1st time that they sent it out for repair and up until and including the 8th month when Cingular sent it out again for the same repairs.

You see, I kept going to the Cingular store even after Nokia repaired my phone for the first time. I kept visiting the Cingular store technician up until Cingular told me on the 8th month that they had to send it out to Nokia again because they couldn't resolve the problem with the software on my phone. I kept going to the Cingular store where the Cingular technician worked about 5 times after the 1st repair to have them try to fix my phone because my phone was not powering up and it would just shut itself off whenever it felt like it. And the phone also had charging problems. It wouldn't charge right.

So now you can see what I had to go thru and why I felt like Cingular should of detected that my phone was defective from the beginning rather than having me keep going to them for the first 8 months and having them be unable to resolve the problem with my Nokia phone. Cingular should have given me a brand new phone rather than have me go thru all this 8 month long aggravation with my Nokia phone. Maybe Cingular's service s u c k s. Maybe they should hire brighter technicians and better customer service people so others will not have to go thru the hell that I went thru with them for 8 whole months with one measly Nokia phone. Cingular has unreliable technicians working in their stores and their service representatives aren't experienced enough to understand a customer's needs when it comes to detecting the frequency and the severity of a problem with any cell phone which is factory defective and unrepairable like mine was. They shouldn't put their customers thru the aggravation and lost time that I had to go thru for a stupid cell phone.

The ONLY reasons why I am still with Cingular is because they have a very large coverage area here in Massachusetts and in New England and I get free "no roaming" charges for all of Rhode Island and Connecticut and the eastern half of Massachusetts from Worcester to the Atlantic shoreline. And I currently get unlimited free time from 7 PM to 7 AM on weekdays and unlimited free time all day/all night on weekends for a reasonable rate. No other carrier has this type of rate plan as good as what I have here now with Cingular. If this wasn't the case, I would tell Cingular to go screw and I would change over to another carrier in a heartbeat without regret.

Cingular has decent rate plans, but their customer service is very bad. Most of their sales representative's have no clue and very little or no product knowledge of what's available in current cell phone technology today. And most of their cell phone service technicians that work in the Cingular stores are unknowledgeable about repairs and they give equal service as a K-Mart cashier. Most of these Cingular employees which I am describing here deserve to be working on an ice cream truck and not for Cingular. If Cingular wants to have people like that working for them, they will eventually lose lots of business. Cingular should give better training and guidance to all of their employees and greatly improve their customer service and technician repair centers. When they do all this, they will gain more business and respect. Hopefully, they will listen to their customer's concerns and will improve their services all across the board.

[bobolito]

I am not sure how long after purchasing a new phone they will still replace it with a new one, but I guarantee you it is less than 1 1/2 months. There's really no set policy on this, but I believe anything that's between two-weeks old and one month old, it is up to the store's discretion. If less than two weeks you will more than likely get a new one as a replancement. However, I bet that if you strongly demanded for a new phone the first time you had the problem, you might've been able to convince them to give you a new one. However, now at 8 months, it is a bit too late.

[RichXKU]

Refurbished replacement phones are standard practice at Verizon as well as AT&T. I had my 3360 replaced with a refurbished one back when I was still on TDMA-only.

[Tadlock2699]

Refurbished phones are standardly given out. It's a fact. Unless you have had the phone for 2 weeks to a month, and even then, you are maybe entitled to a new phone. It doesn't matter the condition of the phone, it's still used when you return it to them, so, why would they give you a new phone? That's not a fair way of doing business.


--J.T

[jayc]

Warranty replacements are most always refurbs... phones, computers, you name anything electronic. The DOA policy at verizon is generally 30 days from purchase you would get a new phone and we send the defective unit back to the manufacturer.

In house warranty replacements are a courtesy to the customer considering the manufacturer is not Cingular/Verizon or any other cellular company.

If I'm not mistaking at T-mobile you have to deal directly with the manufacturer for warranty repairs etc.

[elnlou]

Yup. Tracfone does the same thing for prepaid service. I bought a new phone in FL and moved to NY (only 4 weeks with the new phone). I had to trade in the new phone for a "reconditioned" one because I moved to a new area. The reconditioned phone sent to me was defective! So, I sent it back and asked for a new phone. They gave me lip service and said they would request a new phone. Now you know that ain't going to be so. I suppose if it works that is all that counts.

[MrFlashport]

Okay, so let me get this right. You brought in a USED (8 months of use) phone and you expect a NEW (no use at all) one? This is unreasonable. I could understand if you JUST BOUGHT IT (within 30 days) and had a failure. But your wife used it for 8 months- almost 4 mo away from the warranty period expiring. That is akin to buying a new car and driving it for 25000 out of a 30000 mile warranty and expecting the dealer to replace it with a NEW CAR versus repairing your car to "like new" status. You got 25K worth of use out of it, so why should the dealer take a hit and give up a NEW car out of stock and accept your USED one? Doesn't make sense.

Besides, the refurbished handsets have NEW HOSUINGS, and other parts. They have been tested and flashed with new software. What do you think Nokia would do if you sent it back to them? Yep, send you a unit of "remanufactured parts" aka a refurb. You got 8 months of use out of the phone and it broke. Cingular carried out what they do as a Nokia factory authorized service center and replaced it with a refurbished unit. It works. So what is the problem? I am sure the phone you brought in did not have scratches, wear and signs of 8 months of use. So why should Cingular take your USED phone and give out one of their NEW ones. Just does not seem fair.

By the way, this is standard practice with most electronic mfrs, check around. Most companies will replace your USED gear under warranty with USED but RECERTIFIED gear. And it sounds reasonable to me. It is called a "like for like" exchange.

[bobolito]

What Jeremy says is Cingular should've given him a new phone when it broke the first time which was 30 days from purchase. Instead, they repaired it and had him go through a more complicated process.

[njsvrzncdma]

Yes hes correct in that. within the 30 days he should have recieved a new handset from cingular. after that he should have gotten a refurb. Just a question. did you deal with a corporate store or a dealer ? Just a word of advice from a previous corporate rep. The dealers are the worst to deal with. The rules get bent for the better of them and their business. They have alot more to lose than a corporate store. This is where most people begin to hate cingular is when they deal with a dealer.

[RonJeremy]

I bought this cell phone from a Cingular cell phone store. All they sold was Cingular. So, I guess that it was a corporate store.

[Tadlock2699]

Ron: Were all of the people working there wearing their Cingular shirts, and answering the phone "Thank you for calling Cingular Wireless, this is ****** how can I help you?" or something to that tune? [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]


--J.T

[bobolito]

Originally posted by: RonJeremy
I bought this cell phone from a Cingular cell phone store. All they sold was Cingular. So, I guess that it was a corporate store.

Cingular wants to be independent from other competitors so you won't find agents selling anything other than Cingular. So when you see a store selling only Cingular, doesn't mean it is a corporate store.

[KevinJames]

I've read this (lengthly) thread all the way through. It is one of the few that didn't degrade into non-topic discussion. Kados to you all.

Addressing Ron's notes:

Ron you mentioned two items. First was appearance, 2nd was expectations....

Regarding the replacement phone not appearing new: It seems to me that "appearances" are purely superficial. If you can be satisfied with the performance of the replacement, take the cover from your original phone. (I realize it may be too late for this.)

Regarding expectations: As mentioned above, Cingular is not the only carrier that handles replacement policies the way you expereinced it. As noted by Bobolito, it shouldn't be an expectation that such would be the case. His reasoning was solid and corroborated.

I have monitored these boards for some time now and the real issue comes down to your expectation vs. real-world policy. Even those who pay for added insurance for lost/stolen phones do not always get a new one. Far from being bovine manuer, you were correctly informed by Cingular. Time and again I have noted new users coming here and decrying the various aspects of certain carriers. In many cases, it comes down to not having a clear understanding of the technology and/or the industry. We hope you stay around longer and get acquainted with the industry. You'll find it very enlightening.

[RonJeremy]

I don't know whether or not it was a Corporate store. All I know is that this particular store was really well organized. I have gone into another Cingular store where the sales reps don't know how to answer any questions about the phones which they sell.

I don't know how many Cingular stores in my area are independently owned and how many are corporate stores.

[bobolito]

If you want to find out, just go to the Cingular website and click on "Find a store". You will see the names of the agents who own the stores next to the Cingular Wireless name. If it just says "Cingular Wireless" then that's a corporate store. Just look for the address of the one you went to.

Also, in the receipt when you bought the phone, it should say the owner of the store. If not, then that's probably a corporate store.

[whosurbud]

I wonder what the original problem with the 3360 was in the first place???
He mentions sumthin about a software problem?? I find it kind of hard to believe
a handset could have a "software problem" that couldn't be fixed. e.g. - any software
issues would be addressed by a flashing it with the latest firmware, if in fact there was
a bug in ur phone's original firmware that was addressed by a later revision. Guess my
point is i find it hard to believe an individual handset could have a software problem
that is unique to that specific handset, and if it was a software problem then everyone
else would have been complaining too.

[Tadlock2699]

It's possible that no one else knows/knew about that particular bug, and when the phone was sent to Nokia, they possibly didn't know exactly what the problem is, because I know when companies send the phones in, there really isn't a description of whats wrong..?


--J.T

[markus]

So im guessing Cingular should give a brand new phone and extend your 1 year manufacturer's warranty on the phone also, right? Customer's are never satisfied with a warranty repair service, never. What's wrong with refurbished phone, it works the same, most likely in good condition considering they are giving you that phone to replace your defective phone. Nokia 3360's had problems after problems maybe next time shoot for a higher end phone. Im just sick of customer's complaining about Cingular's Service when the product made by Nokia is defective. Cingular did their job and followed policy. Please stop crying, enough is enough. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

[Tadlock2699]

No offense Markus, but, who's crying?


--J.T

[RonJeremy]

Hey Markus,

If I am paying the Bozos at Cingular for their service and for their phones, I EXPECT good service and adequate equipment. They should back up all their phones and be able to give new phones for ones which are factory defective like the one which I owned. Period.

The particular model Nokia phone which I owned was from a 1st batch that was manufactured with an "unrepairable" software problem. Nokia ended up changing this Nokia phone model with all brand new software in the 2nd batch which they manufactured. This may have been Nokia's fault, but Cingular should have at least given me a brand new Nokia phone rather than give me a refurbished one which was ALSO problematic and defective.

Customer service is important, especially when someone like me has been a loyal Cingular customer for almost 4 years now. I have been a very loyal customer and have been paying the Bozos at Cingular thousands of dollars for the past 4 years for using their service and buying their phones. I EXPECT better service and equipment from them when it comes to turning in defective and unrepairable cell phones. Being handed over a refurbished phone for a defective one just doesn't cut it. Cingular needs to improve their customer relations, otherwise people like me will go elsewhere with my business.

AND BY THE WAY MARKUS:
I recently bought 2 brand new GSM cell phones from Cingular and I am still using Cingular's service, BUT I did NOT RENEW my contract with Cingular when I bought these 2 phones. My contract EXPIRES at the end of October. At that time, when my contract ends, I will re-evaluate Cingular's rates and their service and I will have to determine whether or not I will still remain as a customer with Cingular and deal with the B.S. and with the Bozos who work there. I may change over my cellular service to another wireless carrier if I see that Cingular still has employees who are morons that don't know how to take care of loyal customers who have been with Cingular for many years. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/img]

[njsvrzncdma]

Looks like come october you may be changing carriers ! If you can wait another month after that november 24th is when number portablilty goes into effec (supposedly) and you will be able to take your number with you !

[bobolito]

He will switch carriers and find out that the other carriers will also replace his USED phone with a refurbished one anyway.