Dash(AKA HTC Excaliber) vs. the Samsung Blackjack

[tonyn41]

I recently signed up with T-Mobile and got their T-Mobile Dash.
I love the phone, but was disapointed in their coverage in my area.
So, before my 14 days were up to cancell with them, I decided to check into a comparable phone, but better coverage.
So Yesterday I got a Samsung BlackJack from Cingular.
Since they are comparable phones, and I have both, I will try to give you a personal comparision.
I have 7 days with in which I will be returning the Dash and cancelling T-Mobile.
I also plan to upgrade my BlackJack to the 8525.
So if you have any questions reguarding any comparision of either please post them so I can try to answer them for you while I still have both phones.
I'll give you my first impressions and then you can ask away.
To start this thread off, I'll post a picture(please excuse the poor quality), of them side by side:

[tonyn41]

OK first impressions:
When you pick up the BlackJack it is lighter, thinner, and seams more plastic(the Dash seams more solid and has a nice rubbery coating on the back), than the Dash.

Voice quality on Blackjack seams better. The Dash is hard to hear and talk on, unless you use a bluetooth headset.

Screen quality on the BlackJack seams sharper, although the screen size is smaller than the Dash. In bright sun the Dash's screen washes out, the BlackJack doesn't.

The Keyboard is better on the BlackJack as far as function(on the Dash you have to keep hitting alt and caps to switch modes, etc). The BlackJack also has a nice centered placement of the number keys and a "number lock" for easy phone dialing(which is horrible on the Dash). But the keys are slippier on the BlackJack.

Thumbwheel is nice on the BlackJack, although the direction pad is not as good as on the dash.

The back button, and buttons surounding the direction pad on the BlackJack, are more flush with the phone, and not as good as the Dash.

The Dash has 2 touch strips on the right side of the phone for volume. I find it difficult to use them or could acidently hit them, so I disabled them and keep the volume at max.

The USB and Power connector is a Proprietory type on the BlackJack, and is on the left side of the phone. This I do not like, since I feel it would be better placed on the bottom of phone, as with the Dash, and use a standard USB device connector, as with the Dash.

The BlackJack has 3G, but no intergrated Wifi. The Dash has intergrated Wifi, but no 3G.

Both take MicroSD. The BlackJack's insertion is on outside of phone on right and has a tiny rubber door, and to insert a microSD into the Dash you need to remove the battery cover which is to me more secure.

Of cource my pet peave right now is that the BlackJack doesn't have voice tags for bluetooth voice dialing, as the Dash has. But the voice recognition on the Dash is error prone, and sometimes dials wrong number in contact list, etc.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

Tony

[tonyn41]

Here is a side note for those considering the Dash because of it's wifi:
It's VERY slow with connecting with a wifi network router.
I have it configured to connect in with my LinkSys router in my basement, only 50 feet from my lazy chair(where I sit most of ther time), and it takes forever to connect.
So the wifi transmiter/receiver in the Dash isn't the greatest.
There maybe tweeks that may improve it. But I haven't made any.

I will try to keep posting my opinions on differences and features or weeknesses between these phones here.
But , like I said, both will be returned within a few days, and I won't have them in hand for any more comparisions.

So if you have a specific question I can answer by hands on testing for you, please ask away quick.

[tonyn41]

I just returned the BlackJack to Cingular in exchange for the 8525(I just love the 8525 so far, it fit my needs better). I am now settled in with the 8525 and Cingular
So I can't give you any more opinions on the BlackJack, but if you want to know more about the BlackJack you can contact "Charlyee".
She has one.

But I'll have the Dash for a couple more days before I return it to T-Mobile.
So if you have any questions about that Dash, ask away now.

[wirles]

I would be interested in your comparo between the Blackjack and 8525. I am a phone whore and am considering ditching my 8700c for one of those two phones.

Can you also indicate what features you use most...email, voice, web, etc...

Thanks.

[tonyn41]

Originally Posted by wirles

I would be interested in your comparo between the Blackjack and 8525. I am a phone whore and am considering ditching my 8700c for one of those two phones.

Can you also indicate what features you use most...email, voice, web, etc...

Thanks.

My uses are mainly for email, web surfing, and a pocket organizer( but as a cell phone for emergency).
I also wanted to install a GPS in my car. But now I can use the 8525 as an all in one instead(with tomtom and a GPS attachent that is). Plus more if I want it, mostly in one device.

Well I would say there is no comparision between the BlackJack and 8525.
The 8525 has it all to me.
Most of the time the retractable keyboard isn't needed.
I have got used to using the stylis and onscreen keyboard much better.
But it still has the full keyboard.
Where the BlackJack lacks voice tags via bluetooth, the 8525(like the Dash), has them.
Where the BlackJack has no intergrated wifi, the 8525 has it(I like connecting into my wifi network at home to surf at cable speeds).
What lacked between the BlackJack and Dash, is covered with the 8525, for me.
Want a nice phone dialing pad?
The 8525 has a nice big one on the touch screen for big fingers, etc..
Hand writing recognition for notes.
Big screen to see websites, etc., better.

I don't like to pop my email, or send it from a computer(or phone).
I usually get free yahoo email accounts, and then use the web browser to check the email, and send from yahoo's webmail server .
I am using the new mobile interface(http://m.yahoo.com) for the phone.
That way it saves from being charged for messaging.

I have been up all night tweeking adding the contacts list, a map program and a weather program, and just figuring out the 8525.
I am still very happy.
It gives me what both the BlackJack and Dash do, and more.
The price differance at the Cingular store was about $150 more than the BlackJack.
Worth the extra $150 to me.

Plus I can use the same MicroSD I bought for the Dash, and the USB car charger, etc., saving me money. Pairs up with H700 just fine.

[wirles]

Does it have 3g (HSDPA)?
Will it do mobile email (pop)?

I currently use Blackberry, but am considering other options for specific email accounts (I have a few).

[tonyn41]

Originally Posted by wirles

Does it have 3g (HSDPA)?
Will it do mobile email (pop)?

I currently use Blackberry, but am considering other options for specific email accounts (I have a few).

I am not sure which phone you are asking about, but both the BlackJack and 8525 have 3G and do mobile pop.
The Dash can pop but doesn't have 3G.
Looks like I am now comparing 3 phones.

[wirles]

Originally Posted by tonyn41

I am not sure which phone you are asking about, but both the BlackJack and 8525 have 3G and do mobile pop.
The Dash can pop but doesn't have 3G.
Looks like I am now comparing 3 phones.

Like how I snuck that in on you. Like a ninja addind a phone comparo

Thanks for the insight. I was asking about 3G on the 8525. How would you compare it to your cable modem over WiFi and EDGE?

[tonyn41]

For those that would like to see a comparision picture between the Dash and 8525, here you are:

[tonyn41]

Originally Posted by wirles

Like how I snuck that in on you. Like a ninja addind a phone comparo

Thanks for the insight. I was asking about 3G on the 8525. How would you compare it to your cable modem over WiFi and EDGE?

AFTER I FINALLY got my linksys to work with the 8525(had to enable G only on the router), Wifi over cable is, of cource, the fastest(note, the 8525 connects up to the wifi router faster than the Dash).
3G isn't too bad, but had a few drops and lost connections with 4 bars on the 8525.
Seams about 25% slower than cable.


But realize, that as soon as I got my Cingular service I switched from PDA connect to media max, which doesn't connect as well as PDA connect, but is 50% cheaper.

I don't have anything to test kbps, right now.
If you give me a site that shows it, I'll test it out on 3G, etc.

[wirles]

Speed Test

[tonyn41]

Originally Posted by wirles

Speed Test

OK give me a couple of minutes to test it out for you...

[wirles]

Originally Posted by tonyn41

OK give me a couple of minutes to test it out for you...

I'd be curious to see the 3G results, as well as the WiFi results from your home set up (802.11g to Cable Modem) versus maybe a Starbucks or other public hot spot set up.

[tonyn41]

Originally Posted by wirles

Speed Test

This site isn't PDA friendly.
I can see the test on my laptop but not in the 8525 browser.

[tonyn41]

OOPs I mispelled the url.
I have it now!

[wirles]

Originally Posted by tonyn41

This site isn't PDA friendly.
I can see the test on my laptop but not in the 8525 browser.

That blows. How about http://www.dslreports.com/mspeed?jisok=1

[tonyn41]

OK here are your results for cable and 3G:
In Milwaukee Wisconsin, using TimeWarner Cable, and a linysys 54G router(25 feet from 8525) to a cable modem to the net, the speed using the 8525 over wifi, is 1.7 megabits per second. My wife works for Timewarner, so we have a fast connection. I don't know how it would be at a Starbucks.

In Milwaukee Wisconsin, using Cingular 3G and the 8525, I get 652.8-773.1 kilobits per second.
This is from my home in So Milwaukee, where T-Mobile has no bars(but Cingular has all 4 here).
So it maybe faster closer to the inner City of Milwaukee.
But 3G is fast!
About as fast as DSL but not cable.

BTW the first site worked fine.
I just previously typed the wrong url.

[tonyn41]

A note: I find myself using the stylis and touchscreen keyboard on the 8525 more than it's retractable keyboard.
So the 8525 offers more for typing than the Dash or BlackJack.
Plus, in dial mode, you have a nice phone keypad on the touchscreen.
Would you like to see a picture of it?

The speakerphone is fine too on the 8525, not too loud, nor too quiet.

Voice quality is best on the Blackjack when put to your ear as a phone..
But, IMO, that's what the bluetooth headsets are for with these smart/PDA/phones.
For voice, I use the bluetooth with voice tags. That way the phone can stay in it's holster, and only be brought out for working with documents or surfing, etc. I'll be installing MS VC next for totaly hands free voice.

So far, to me, the winner is the 8525.

[tonyn41]

OK I talked about the touch screen dialer pad on the 8525 vs the keyboard entry on the BlackJack and Dash.
Both the BlackJack and Dash you need to find, and then be able to use the numbers on the keyboard!
On the 8525, you have nice big numbers aranged as on a phone on the touchscreen!
Here's a side by side comparision picture showing the Dash's dialer(it's simular to the BlackJack's) to the 8525's. Plus on the x-developer's site you could reskin it in green, red, or grey, etc.. Mine is blue.

[tonyn41]

Originally Posted by tonyn41

OK here are your results for cable and 3G:
In Milwaukee Wisconsin, using TimeWarner Cable, and a linysys 54G router(25 feet from 8525) to a cable modem to the net, the speed using the 8525 over wifi, is 1.7 megabits per second. My wife works for Timewarner, so we have a fast connection. I don't know how it would be at a Starbucks.

In Milwaukee Wisconsin, using Cingular 3G and the 8525, I get 652.8-773.1 kilobits per second.
This is from my home in So Milwaukee, where T-Mobile has no bars(but Cingular has all 4 here).
So it maybe faster closer to the inner City of Milwaukee.
But 3G is fast!
About as fast as DSL but not cable.

BTW the first site worked fine.
I just previously typed the wrong url.

Just for giggles I thought I would test the speed of my laptop's wifi to the linksys router and the net for comparison.
Here is what it is:
1.8 megabits per second, which is about the same as with the 8525.
So the 8525 connects great via wifi!
The Dash , on the other hand, doesn't!

FYI: it seams that to connect properly with these wifi phones to a wifi router, that router needs to be set to ONLY g, NOT mixed or b.
I like the linksysy routers, since via private lan ip(http://192.168.1.1, etc), you can fully configure them to work right in heavy RF areas.
My neighbour has 3 2.4ghz security cams on 3 channels.
With the linksystem router I have a choice of 6 channels!
Plus my neighbour(although he doesn't know it), has a DSL modem that is wifi and the 8525 and my laptop detect it too.

[tonyn41]

My opinion so far is that between the Dash and BlackJack, the BlackJack comes out ahead.
The only advantage of the Dash over the BlackJack is the wifi and voice tags over bluetooth.
But the wifi is not worth it if that is what you are looking at with the Dash.
It can't hold onto the wifi from the linksys, where the 8525 can.

[walkguru]

thanks for all the usefull info.

[tonyn41]

Originally Posted by walkguru

thanks for all the usefull info.

You are welcome.
I hope I helped.

I just called T-Mobile and cancelled the contract(before I forgot).
So the Dash is now dead, and I'll be returning it Monday.
About all I can do right now is take pictures of it for you.
If you want any type of picture, let me know before it gos back.

As for the 8525:
That I can post more about though.
But I don't know if I should post that in this thread, or in the 8525 thread.

[wirles]

Thanks for all of the information. The only other 'want' (not need) is a phone that has OBEX/OPP for bluetooth so I can 'push' address book entries to my car's OEM bluetooth system.

Do you know if the Blackjack or the 8525 have this?

[tonyn41]

Originally Posted by wirles

Thanks for all of the information. The only other 'want' (not need) is a phone that has OBEX/OPP for bluetooth so I can 'push' address book entries to my car's OEM bluetooth system.

Do you know if the Blackjack or the 8525 have this?

Well you got me here.
I have NO IDEA what OBEX/OOP is.
If you can explain it to me I'll see what I can find out.

[hf1khal]

there is some software that can get that fixed and do the transfer from the WM5 based handsets take a look
at the review here: http://www.theunwired.net/./?itemid=3179 and try the software out, if you think it's worth the effort. It does offer a free trial period. and the direct link for the software download: http://www.jetwaremobile.com/index.htm

[tonyn41]

Originally Posted by hf1khal

there is some software that can get that fixed and do the transfer from the WM5 based handsets take a look
at the review here: http://www.theunwired.net/./?itemid=3179 and try the software out, if you think it's worth the effort. It does offer a free trial period. and the direct link for the software download: http://www.jetwaremobile.com/index.htm

That sounds like a great addition to ANY WM5 smartphone.
This SHOULD work with the BlackJack or Dash.
But I AM SURE it work work better with the 8525.
The 8525 has better bluetooth connectivity and networking, etc.
I'll try this out on the 8525, but it may take a while before I could post results.
My plans for my 8525 include COMPLETE hands free car kits and such.
I am specifically interested in GPS navigation(using TomTom and a bluetooth GPS) and XM radio through my car speakers.
But I will have to do some electronics work on my car stereo to do this.
No worry I am a EE
It's just too cold out here in Wisconsin to do any work on my car(that's my other toy).

[hf1khal]

Just be carefull as t how many BT devices you might have it connected to. I am not sure about the 8525 but many only allow one connection at a time. I had a good exerience with the 2 BBs that I have where I could use the GPS reciever puck and the BT headset. But to get it working with 2 devices, i always have to connect teh BT headset first then the GPS puck (by the way I use telenave for the GPS application and it is on the BB and requires a data plan) TomTom will for sure be the better choice for you.

[tonyn41]

Originally Posted by hf1khal

Just be carefull as t how many BT devices you might have it connected to. I am not sure about the 8525 but many only allow one connection at a time. I had a good exerience with the 2 BBs that I have where I could use the GPS reciever puck and the BT headset. But to get it working with 2 devices, i always have to connect teh BT headset first then the GPS puck (by the way I use telenave for the GPS application and it is on the BB and requires a data plan) TomTom will for sure be the better choice for you.

Thanks for the heads up.
The specs with the 8525 with multiple bluetooth devices and networking seam good. But actual world testing is another thing.
But be assured that I WILL be pushing the 8525 to it's limits over the next few months. Specifically with GPS and XM radio(this part will have to wait for better weather).