WirelessAdvisor.com

axvx8xoxr · 08-01-2003, 3:18 PM

looking around and found a steel antenna that supposedly fits a 4400....other than a differnet look to the antenna, could it really imporove reception as claimed?

here's the site:
http://www.daydeal.com/catthumb.asp?...tegory=retract

Tony E! · 08-01-2003, 4:32 PM

you ever wonder why they don't put steel antenas on cell phones like they used back in the eighties, this is kind of like the internal antenna booster, junk.
don't give them your money for that.

brooklyn · 08-01-2003, 9:48 PM

I put a steel antenna on my startac and it degraded my signal strength. Also... look out for lightning!

GoodmanR · 08-01-2003, 9:56 PM

it wont improve your signal strength. the only thing that will is an external, POWERED amplified antenna or repeater. OEM antennas work better than any other antenna (external excluded).

if the steel antenna made signal better, everyone would have them. if it sounds to good to be true, it is. this case is no exception.

JamisonBWolsh · 08-01-2003, 10:25 PM

Do any of you have proof of this? I know I added an antenna to my startec it worked better,..... here is what I wrote about it in another forum:

I was doing a little research on this subject and found out this.

On a 800 mhz network (which Verizon uses in california), the length for optimum Reception of an antenna is 7 1/2 inches from the base. On most cell phones. the base is at the bottom of the phone. On the VX 6000, that length is only 4 1/2 to the top of the OEM antenna. That means that by adding another 3 inches will create BETTER reception.

If the system is on the 1900 ghz and the antenna is LONGER than a given length (I forgot what the length is, but it is shorter than the 7 1/2 inches) the reception will be worse. I do not have to worry about that because California is on the 800 mhz.

personal experiences:

I owned a startac and added a metal retractable antenna and got a better reception.
The Lg 510- I did not purchase any antenna for it.

Conclusion:
Based on certain facts, I believe by purchasing a metal antenna that adds another 3 inches, the reception will increase.

Other benefits:

Stronger signal= Longer battery life

Longer antenna= lower radiation (verdict is still out about this impact).

Conclusion= Buy from a respectful store that has a return policy. Www.Daydeals.com is one, not from ebay. Try it! As for those lighted antennas- those are for only show.

Also, The companies are designing the phones to have stubby antennas as a marketing gimmick. As I said earlier, on a 800 mhz network, a antenna length of 7 1/2 inches is for the optimum reception no matter what cellular company your on.

I ordered an antenna that will add 3 inches to the phone for 12.99. Once i recieve it, I will let you know how it works...

Bitslap47 · 08-01-2003, 11:18 PM

JamisonBWolsh:

I've done a little RF design in my day, and have built/repaired/tuned/operated HAM and CB radio for many years.

In my experience, length of the antenna has nothing to do directly with field strength. Field strength is actually higher at the same TX power with a more efficient emitter.

It seems that if the signal strength is better on the RX side, you're assuming the phone has to TX with less power to hit the tower making the emissions less.... but your not adding an antenna or other RX preamp to the tower too are you?

Also, are you describing an analog antenna or digital antenna? Are you talking full, half, or quarter wave for your optimum lengths?

It seems you are also counting the plastic phone body as part of the radiating element.

Just curious since you seemed to question other responses.......

jjjones · 08-02-2003, 12:24 AM

To further muddy the waters, I've noticed that if I unscrew and remove the stub antenna on my vx6000, the reception is not affected at all, at least judging by the number of bars on the signal strength display. I've started experimenting with this, indoors and out, in Walmart, at the beach, at home, etc, and nowhere is the signal at all changed by removing the antenna stub. Any thoughts?

JamisonBWolsh · 08-02-2003, 7:34 AM

Here is the article that proves that having a extended Antenna is better for reception:

http://denbeste.nu/cdmafaq/antenna.shtml

This is for either for analog or digital signal. The quality of the sound improves with analog. I have the VX6000 and thats purely digital. The sound does not get better, but the signal strength does. Stronger strength means longer battery life and adding an antenna could mean the difference of getting a signal and not getting one in a weak coverage area.

Here is an article that says its healthier with an extended antenna:

http://www.darwinmag.com/read/020101...s_content.html Bottom of webpage

Bitslap47 · 08-02-2003, 2:58 PM

JamisonBWalsh:

For the first article, all I need to do is quote it:

"Making it longer with some sort of extension is worse than useless; it actually degrades the signal."

And, as in the second article, they are describing extending the antenna designed for the phone, by the phone's manufaturer, as in pull it out if it is a retractable type, not a stubby. They are not describing or advocating adding a longer antenna not designed for the phone by it's manufacturer. Nowhere does it state that replacing the antenna with a longer one will improve.

The second article, again, is describing extending the antenna designed for the phone, by the phone's manufaturer, as in pull it out if it is a retractable type, not a stubby. They are not describing or advocating adding a longer antenna not designed for the phone by it's manufacturer.

Quote "Pull the retractable antenna out as far as it will go"

JamisonBWolsh · 08-02-2003, 3:10 PM

"Making it longer with some sort of extension is worse than useless; it actually degrades the signal."

Yes. Its true. IF the system is on the 1900mhz network... if your on the 800 Mgz, the signal improves!
(please read the full article and not just a small bit)

Please keep in mind. The manufactors does not design the phone or the antenna for the signal quality. They design it to SELL. Most poeple like stubby antennas so they are going to add a stubby antenna to sell more phones. Sure, the signal quality will lower, but it will sell. Thats just marketing. Someone had a 4400 and by extending the antenna, you gain one bar. This is just facts. If you dont want one. Fine, dont get one. I just ordered mine and when I get it, I will let you know how good it is (99.9 percent sure it will work great). Leave you're stubby on if you want. If I ever run into you in an area that has a weak signal and you cant get a signal and see me talking on mine, well then, better have lots of quarters [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] I sure am not going to let you use mine...

Tanakasan · 08-02-2003, 4:18 PM

Hello all. I have been reading the posts here for a week. What a great forum! This is my first post. I really have learned a lot here!

I just bought two VX6000s. One for me and the other for my wife. What a great phone! I also bought the XL Silver Retractable antenna, third one on the top row for mine. Yes, it does help reception. About 50-75% of the time, it can add one bar of signal. I work on a movie set and am located in a 40 foot trailer which is our shop. As you walk back into the trailer, the signal drops off, but still has enough to get a call out. I was concerned with the lack of a pull out antenna. The Verizon advisor said that "the new phones are getting stonger" and did not need them any longer. My friend has a VX4400 and the pull out helps. I now have the best of both worlds! I also have a Nokia 6200 on ATT (charter member) GSM. What a crappy system...marginal coverage, weak regarding TX/RX strength. Could not get a signal 5 feet into the trailer and often had to reboot to reconnect to the network after coming out. And that is still far better than the T68i was. I am still on ATT due to the 1 year commitment, but don't mind paying on two services because the LG/Verizon is far superior!

JamisonBWolsh · 08-02-2003, 5:56 PM

Well, Glad to have ya! enjoy!

Try the wap tunnel for free internet! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

I ordered the XXL silver (1st one on the 2nd level). I cant wait! I ordered it on Friday (Aug. 1), so it should arrive soon.

Your in the movie business? Thats SO hard to get in! Been trying for the past 3 years. I even have a film production degree! Its not about the degree or anything else...just making contacts. I did extra work (background actor) for a while, but that did not get me anywhere.

Have you tried it at the beach (venice) yet? Verizon is a great service and I could get it about anywhere. The places I sometimes did not get service in is the mountains and the Beaches (very spotty there). I hope this helps boosts the signal at those spots.

Bitslap47 · 08-02-2003, 8:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: JamisonBWolsh<br

Yes. Its true. IF the system is on the 1900mhz network... if your on the 800 Mgz, the signal improves!
(please read the full article and not just a small bit)

I read it over again, and I still don't see that anywhere in the article. Maybe the link is sending me to the wrong article...

But hey, if it works for you! The placebo effect has it's place in the medical field too, and has even been creditied with curing cancer.

Tony E! · 08-02-2003, 9:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: JamisonBWolsh
"Making it longer with some sort of extension is worse than useless; it actually degrades the signal."

If you dont want one. Fine, dont get one. I just ordered mine and when I get it, I will let you know how good it is (99.9 percent sure it will work great). Leave you're stubby on if you want. If I ever run into you in an area that has a weak signal and you cant get a signal and see me talking on mine, well then, better have lots of quarters [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] I sure am not going to let you use mine...

Your in the movie business? Thats SO hard to get in! Been trying for the past 3 years. I even have a film production degree! Its not about the degree or anything else...just making contacts. I did extra work (background actor) for a while, but that did not get me anywhere

jamison, don't get so irritated over a steel antenna, bitslap is just posting his comments and opinions, and he's keeping on the subject, this is what this forum is all about, cell phones, not the movie undustry. lol

[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

JamisonBWolsh · 08-02-2003, 9:18 PM

your funny.

The placebo effect is something that you THINK works and you convince yourself it does.

This retractable Antenna is REALITY. Here is a test.

Go to the service menu-

0-0000-2(field test)-1 (screen) then hit ok.

The RX Power is the signal stregth. The lower the number, the stronger the signal. Take off the stub antenna and you will notice this number to increase. Add the Retractable antenna, the numbers will decrease (not tested yet). On the VX4400 the number decreases. I havent tried it on the 6000 yet, but I will try it when I get it in the mail.

You can also get the battery power on this menu. Go down to where it says BATT. A full battery (extended battery) is "4" Volts. A very depleted battery says "0". This is much better calculation to find out how much battery power you have left

Tony E! · 08-02-2003, 9:35 PM

your funny.

thank you, and i wasn't even trying to be.

good to see your talking about cell phones again.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

i don't disagree with you, once you received your antenna, keep us posted, i'm always open to accessories that will make my phone work better.

GoodmanR · 08-02-2003, 10:29 PM

the stub antenna unscrewed does make a difference. when getting 5 bars w/ antenna, i got 1 w/o

Tanakasan · 08-02-2003, 10:51 PM

Did an extremely un-scientific test via the service menu.

3 bars /-087 to -090 Rx value with the factory antenna
3 bars/-088 to -093 with retracted steel antenna
3 to 4 bars/-085 to -094 with extended steel antenna
1 bar/-103 to -106 with no antenna at all.

Test was over a 30 minute period, going back to main screen and re-entering service mode each time. Each antenna was measured three times and varied somewhat over each test period which lasted around 2 minutes. Seems to have 4 bars only with extended steel antenna. Bars had only a loose relationship to Rx value. Much larger range swing with extended steel as compared to factory. When the -085 was reading, I retracted the antenna. It took a few seconds to register and went to -091, but with 4 bars.

Are "bars" and "Rx" measuring different things?

Bitslap47 · 08-03-2003, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by: Tanakasan
Did an extremely un-scientific test via the service menu.

3 bars /-087 to -090 Rx value with the factory antenna
3 bars/-088 to -093 with retracted steel antenna
3 to 4 bars/-085 to -094 with extended steel antenna
1 bar/-103 to -106 with no antenna at all.

Your results seem to indicate the steel antenna can give a 2 unit advantage, or a 4 unit deficit over the factory antenna.

I would opt personally to limit the minimum to -90 using the factory antenna.

It's also interesting that the extended steel antenna proved to have a lower signal floor than the retracted steel antenna.

Did you notice any particular positional sensistivity of the steel antenna vs. the factory antenna? I.E. holding the phone vertical, horizontal, and in between?

Tanakasan · 08-03-2003, 2:10 AM

3 bars /-087 to -090 Rx value with the factory antenna
3 bars/-088 to -093 with retracted steel antenna
3 to 4 bars/-085 to -094 with extended steel antenna
1 bar/-103 to -106 with no antenna at all.

As stated, this was a very casual "what if" kind of test...your mileage may differ.

I did not try various positions of the antenna, as my understanding is that vertical should give the best performance. Perhaps being longer and/or skewed influences the results somewhat. Would it be affected by the proximity to a 2.66Ghz CPU? The values would fluctuate over the time period-it was not like it "locked on" to a number. The extended steel antenna would give somewhat higher-although slight-readings most of the time. It was also the only one that I saw 4 bars with on this test. I cannot say what the results would be like in an area where I have 5 full bars or barely 1 bar. As a note, the Nokia 6200 on ATT GSM would get only one bar here (not apples and apples by any means) and would not consistently allow acceptable calls.

The -094 with the extended steel was there only once and only for an instant. Most of the time it was in the -087 to -089 range.

A couple of questions for the more knowledgeable members: Is a couple point increase/decrease really a big deal? Is the Rx value or "bars" more indicative of real world performance?

larry39110 · 08-03-2003, 7:41 AM

I bought one of these for my LGVX10. IT absolutely did NOT help the signal. I took it out because when it is retracted, it is longer than the OEM antannae. I'd save my money.

Tony E! · 08-03-2003, 12:10 PM

ok so we seem to be going back n forth, so is it better with or without?

JamisonBWolsh · 08-03-2003, 3:11 PM

I ordered mine on friday, so when I get it, I will let you know what happens. I will also test it at the beach (no signal) and in the mountains. Personal exp showed me that with a startec, the signal improved (but that was a few years ago). With a 4400, the antenna extended gets a better signal.

Here is a point about this retractable antenna:

It is meant for those areas where you cannot get a signal or it is very weak. With the antenna, hopefully I can pick up a signal. For voice quality, 1 bar to 5 bars, does not matter because you are on a digital network (analog is another story). The higher the bars though, the longer the battery will last. I will post what my experiences are when I add the antenna.

Expectations:

From Scientific proof, the reception should improve. But Tanakasan did do a test and you know the results. there have been a few other poeple that also tested and said there is a increase of reception. I will try to get a link for that. My test will be much thorough with more than one location tested. Im hoping, with the retracted antenna, I will be able to pick up a signal at the beach or in the mountains..

Here is 2 quotes I found so far

1. "I have the 7cm retractable antenna from http://www.daydeal.com/ . I've done some side by side comparisons with that antenna extended and the stubby which came with the phone in areas with difficult reception.

The verdict. The retractable antenna did, in fact, improve reception. It wasn't a huge improvement, but it was noticeable."
----
email: mch@squirrel.com

2."I bought a metal retractable antenna on ebay and when i put it up it does give me an extra bar which helps out a lot for me because the reception in my house $ucks!!!!! I would recommend it!" No email given.

'

I will let you know what my experience is with it.

djlee · 08-03-2003, 3:51 PM

I'm sorry but I just gotta say these things don't look nice at all. I wouldn't sacrifice my oem antenna just to get one extra bar. I mean, having even 1 bar will get me service, so what will an extra bar do right? I mean, of course its always better to have better signal, but putting one of those things on my phone just won't outweigh having 1 extra bar of signal. Just my opinion. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

JamisonBWolsh · 08-03-2003, 4:17 PM

Here is a messege to my from Howardforums.com :

"jamison,

yep, ive had the steel XXL ok antenna for a while now... its very nice... i think the advantage is that you dont have to pull it out to get decent reception... like in my apart i always have at least 3-4 bars now... before i had 1-2 with the regular antenna pulled in

it's even better with it pulled out... i always get at least 4 in any postion... just dont touch the antenna as it will kill the bars quickly"

Bitslap47 · 08-04-2003, 6:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: JamisonBWolsh
Here is a messege to my from Howardforums.com :

In the interest of making sure everyone else is better informed and not misled.......

Jamison... since you brought up your posts in HOFO... I happened to see that thread on HOFO before you started this one, and 90% of the responses you got were like this one I've quoted from HOFO:

[QUOTE]
dont do it
1) most of them dont fit properly (i got burned on ebay for my t720)
2) the phone wasnt designed to have a retractable antenna, therefore its not going to improve anything. it will probably make it worse!
3) i have a butt load of these for the nokias (we sell anything ppl want including light up antennas) and usually ppl come back pissed that it doesnt work just like the light up antennas. i tell everyone upfront that it decreases signal strength
[END QUOTE]

Most people echoed the statement made in item 2, which happens to be the case. The phones are tuned for the factory antenna. They pass FCC emitted radiation safety tests with these antennas.

Modifying the antenna can cause health risks as well as performance issues, and may even shorten the life of your phones electronics in the TX and RX circuits. Impedance matching and SWR value is a big deal in the RF world. Unless you have the tools to measure these, there is no way to be sure the antenna you are putting on the phone is matched properly.

The information you posted here, including the links to the articles you supplied, was almost word for word from a post of another user, one of the few advocates on the subject.

I guess you didn't like the answer you got in HOFO, so you came here. Just like placebos, second opinions have their place in both the medical and technical worlds.

It is also fact that the physical size of the antenna really has nothing to due with the effective radiating surface. Most of the "stubby" antennas use coils of wire. That is why most "stubby" antennas that measure just 1" are really 5/8 wave as someone in HOFO pointed out.

The tests you are performing are not very conclusive unless you get 2 identical phones side by side that have had their receivers tested, and the Delta in their efficiency/performance documented, OR you have a controlled transmitter in a lab environment. There are too many other factors such as topography, weather, and mobile objects between you and the tower to make your beach and mountain tests adequate.

Good luck!

JamisonBWolsh · 08-04-2003, 7:11 PM

Bitspam... bit whatever,

What is your problem? Why are you so against it? Those other poeple on that other thread was talking about a STUB antenna (another type antenna you can get-smaller than the oem). That has proven not to work as good because the size of the antenna is small. The quotes I gave was from everyone that actually OWNED a retractable antenna. Not some people "speculating" if it works. Please find me a quote from a person that owns a "RETRACTABLE" abtenna that says its useless.

I will give you my review of it when I get it.

Since you do not even HAVE one, please stop your SPECULATION!

In the HOFO, not one person said anything negative about the Retractable antenna. Just you. I wonder why?

As for the antenna causing performace issues and health risks:
Performance Issues: Better reception and longer battery life!!! You got me on that one!
Health risks: Less radiation!!! A longer antenna draws the radiation away from your head!!! you got me there too!

*** please post your "source's" or your claims are invalid. I posted mine where it describes that an antenna the length of 7 1/2 inches has the best possible chance of getting the strongest signal on a 800 ghz network (Verizon). Not the 1 INCH that your are implying.

Bitslap47 · 08-04-2003, 8:26 PM

I don't post in HOFO at all, so you are mistaken.... again.

As I said, my "Problem" is to be sure everyone is well informed.

The quote I supplied in my previous post was a direct reply by "vzwagent007" in HOFO to your question about a "retractable" antenna. He was not replying to any message from you about a "stubby" antenna.

Feel free to contact "vzwagent007" and clarify. You can also ask him his experience with his customer base trying these "retractable" antennas. He has the benefit of knowledge from a larger cross section of people than if he had just owned one himself.

In fact, it was the first response to your inquisition about a "retractable" antenna posted in that thread on HOFO. After all, the title of the thread is "Retractable Antenna??"

Please read this thread below. It is self explanatory.

HOFO Thread: Retractable Antenna??

As far as my sources for antenna design, pick up a copy of the amateur radio operators handbook at Radio Shack or an RF design/engineering book at any book store.

Again, the physical size of the antenna doesn't matter, it's the effective size determined by the design.

You can also open up the manual for your phone, and contact technical/product support and ask them. They did, as another user pointed out, spend a lot of money to design the phone and its antenna.

Upon closer inspection of your grammar, I think I understand why this is so difficult to convey.

JamisonBWolsh · 08-04-2003, 8:40 PM

Or you can just read:

http://denbeste.nu/cdmafaq/antenna.shtml

which states 7 1/2 is the best for reception.
The thread at HOFO is just opinions. Someone who actually OWNED one said he loved it in a post on that thread. The others are just opinions like yours. Based on speculation.

Quote: "You can also open up the manual for your phone, and contact technical/product support and ask them. They did, as another user pointed out, spend a lot of money to design the phone and its antenna."

Hmmmm...dont you think the popular opinion of having a small antenna impacted LG's decision to have a stub antenna? I bet it played a major roll. Its Called MARKETING. Its not based on signal quality, but what the mass want.

You actually went so far as to make a personal Attack against me? You know what they say about poeple that have to resort to personal attacks in a discussion..

Bitslap47 · 08-04-2003, 8:55 PM

Personal attack?

Quote: "Bitspam... bit whatever,"

I merely made an observation, not a name calling attempt as you did.

I assume that link is one of the links the HOFO poster supplied that I have already read.

Again, the physical size of the antenna doesn't matter, it's the effective size determined by the design. The effective size of the 1" stub is actually a little longer than 7 1/2 inches. This can be backed up by calling the manufacturer's tech support and asking that an engineer get back to you.

Also, at the bottom of the article, notice the author says:

"Here's a chart which shows this relationship between signal strength and antenna length in wavelengths"

Wavelengths, not inches, not physical size.

Feel free to contact the article's author as well.

I'm sure popular opinion about the physical size of the antenna has prompted phone manufacturers to invest in an antenna design that performs just as well in a smaller form factor.

Let me know the results of your call to LG, your contact with the poster at HOFO to determine his intent, and your contact with the article's author.

08-01-2003, 3:18 PM	#1
axvx8xoxr Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta Posts: 1,286 Phone(s): Motorola Q, VX7000, VX8100, V3 RAZR Provider(s): Verizon Devices: MP3, GPS, PDA Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna looking around and found a steel antenna that supposedly fits a 4400....other than a differnet look to the antenna, could it really imporove reception as claimed? here's the site: http://www.daydeal.com/catthumb.asp?...tegory=retract __________________ "so i tell the swamp donkey to sock it before i give her a trunky in the tradesman's entrance and i have her lick my yardballs" -Soccer Hooligan

08-01-2003, 4:32 PM	#2
Tony E! \/\/ireless /\dvisor Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: City of /\ngels CA. Posts: 10,102 Phone(s): KR/\ZR K1·/\/\OTO i880, BBCURVE 8350i Provider(s): ·T···Mobile·Sprint/Nextel Devices: /\/\otoH12·/\/\otoH690 Thanks: 3 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts Images: 19 My Auctions	steel antenna you ever wonder why they don't put steel antenas on cell phones like they used back in the eighties, this is kind of like the internal antenna booster, junk. don't give them your money for that. __________________ (oOO \ (\|\|\|\|)(\|\|\|\|) / OOo) Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional; they are placed there for the enjoyment of those who like to point them out.

08-01-2003, 9:48 PM	#3
brooklyn Fresh Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna I put a steel antenna on my startac and it degraded my signal strength. Also... look out for lightning!

08-01-2003, 9:56 PM	#4
GoodmanR Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 3,140 Phone(s): Moto v3 Razr, Blackberry 7230 Provider(s): Cingular (Voice) + T-Mobile (Blackberry) Devices: Crackberry Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna it wont improve your signal strength. the only thing that will is an external, POWERED amplified antenna or repeater. OEM antennas work better than any other antenna (external excluded). if the steel antenna made signal better, everyone would have them. if it sounds to good to be true, it is. this case is no exception. __________________ New Job = New Phone

08-01-2003, 10:25 PM	#5
JamisonBWolsh Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 62 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna Do any of you have proof of this? I know I added an antenna to my startec it worked better,..... here is what I wrote about it in another forum: I was doing a little research on this subject and found out this. On a 800 mhz network (which Verizon uses in california), the length for optimum Reception of an antenna is 7 1/2 inches from the base. On most cell phones. the base is at the bottom of the phone. On the VX 6000, that length is only 4 1/2 to the top of the OEM antenna. That means that by adding another 3 inches will create BETTER reception. If the system is on the 1900 ghz and the antenna is LONGER than a given length (I forgot what the length is, but it is shorter than the 7 1/2 inches) the reception will be worse. I do not have to worry about that because California is on the 800 mhz. personal experiences: I owned a startac and added a metal retractable antenna and got a better reception. The Lg 510- I did not purchase any antenna for it. Conclusion: Based on certain facts, I believe by purchasing a metal antenna that adds another 3 inches, the reception will increase. Other benefits: Stronger signal= Longer battery life Longer antenna= lower radiation (verdict is still out about this impact). Conclusion= Buy from a respectful store that has a return policy. Www.Daydeals.com is one, not from ebay. Try it! As for those lighted antennas- those are for only show. Also, The companies are designing the phones to have stubby antennas as a marketing gimmick. As I said earlier, on a 800 mhz network, a antenna length of 7 1/2 inches is for the optimum reception no matter what cellular company your on. I ordered an antenna that will add 3 inches to the phone for 12.99. Once i recieve it, I will let you know how it works...

WirelessAdvisor.com

LG Electronics

steel antenna in Wireless Phones Forums; "looking around and found a steel antenna that supposedly fits ..."

WirelessAdvisor.com

08-01-2003, 11:18 PM	#6
Bitslap47 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna JamisonBWolsh: I've done a little RF design in my day, and have built/repaired/tuned/operated HAM and CB radio for many years. In my experience, length of the antenna has nothing to do directly with field strength. Field strength is actually higher at the same TX power with a more efficient emitter. It seems that if the signal strength is better on the RX side, you're assuming the phone has to TX with less power to hit the tower making the emissions less.... but your not adding an antenna or other RX preamp to the tower too are you? Also, are you describing an analog antenna or digital antenna? Are you talking full, half, or quarter wave for your optimum lengths? It seems you are also counting the plastic phone body as part of the radiating element. Just curious since you seemed to question other responses.......

08-02-2003, 12:24 AM	#7
jjjones Fresh Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna To further muddy the waters, I've noticed that if I unscrew and remove the stub antenna on my vx6000, the reception is not affected at all, at least judging by the number of bars on the signal strength display. I've started experimenting with this, indoors and out, in Walmart, at the beach, at home, etc, and nowhere is the signal at all changed by removing the antenna stub. Any thoughts?

08-02-2003, 7:34 AM	#8
JamisonBWolsh Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 62 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna Here is the article that proves that having a extended Antenna is better for reception: http://denbeste.nu/cdmafaq/antenna.shtml This is for either for analog or digital signal. The quality of the sound improves with analog. I have the VX6000 and thats purely digital. The sound does not get better, but the signal strength does. Stronger strength means longer battery life and adding an antenna could mean the difference of getting a signal and not getting one in a weak coverage area. Here is an article that says its healthier with an extended antenna: http://www.darwinmag.com/read/020101...s_content.html Bottom of webpage

08-02-2003, 2:58 PM	#9
Bitslap47 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna JamisonBWalsh: For the first article, all I need to do is quote it: "Making it longer with some sort of extension is worse than useless; it actually degrades the signal." And, as in the second article, they are describing extending the antenna designed for the phone, by the phone's manufaturer, as in pull it out if it is a retractable type, not a stubby. They are not describing or advocating adding a longer antenna not designed for the phone by it's manufacturer. Nowhere does it state that replacing the antenna with a longer one will improve. The second article, again, is describing extending the antenna designed for the phone, by the phone's manufaturer, as in pull it out if it is a retractable type, not a stubby. They are not describing or advocating adding a longer antenna not designed for the phone by it's manufacturer. Quote "Pull the retractable antenna out as far as it will go"

08-02-2003, 3:10 PM	#10
JamisonBWolsh Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 62 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna "Making it longer with some sort of extension is worse than useless; it actually degrades the signal." Yes. Its true. IF the system is on the 1900mhz network... if your on the 800 Mgz, the signal improves! (please read the full article and not just a small bit) Please keep in mind. The manufactors does not design the phone or the antenna for the signal quality. They design it to SELL. Most poeple like stubby antennas so they are going to add a stubby antenna to sell more phones. Sure, the signal quality will lower, but it will sell. Thats just marketing. Someone had a 4400 and by extending the antenna, you gain one bar. This is just facts. If you dont want one. Fine, dont get one. I just ordered mine and when I get it, I will let you know how good it is (99.9 percent sure it will work great). Leave you're stubby on if you want. If I ever run into you in an area that has a weak signal and you cant get a signal and see me talking on mine, well then, better have lots of quarters [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] I sure am not going to let you use mine...

08-02-2003, 4:18 PM	#11
Tanakasan Movin' on up! Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna Hello all. I have been reading the posts here for a week. What a great forum! This is my first post. I really have learned a lot here! I just bought two VX6000s. One for me and the other for my wife. What a great phone! I also bought the XL Silver Retractable antenna, third one on the top row for mine. Yes, it does help reception. About 50-75% of the time, it can add one bar of signal. I work on a movie set and am located in a 40 foot trailer which is our shop. As you walk back into the trailer, the signal drops off, but still has enough to get a call out. I was concerned with the lack of a pull out antenna. The Verizon advisor said that "the new phones are getting stonger" and did not need them any longer. My friend has a VX4400 and the pull out helps. I now have the best of both worlds! I also have a Nokia 6200 on ATT (charter member) GSM. What a crappy system...marginal coverage, weak regarding TX/RX strength. Could not get a signal 5 feet into the trailer and often had to reboot to reconnect to the network after coming out. And that is still far better than the T68i was. I am still on ATT due to the 1 year commitment, but don't mind paying on two services because the LG/Verizon is far superior!

08-02-2003, 5:56 PM	#12
JamisonBWolsh Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 62 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna Well, Glad to have ya! enjoy! Try the wap tunnel for free internet! [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img] I ordered the XXL silver (1st one on the 2nd level). I cant wait! I ordered it on Friday (Aug. 1), so it should arrive soon. Your in the movie business? Thats SO hard to get in! Been trying for the past 3 years. I even have a film production degree! Its not about the degree or anything else...just making contacts. I did extra work (background actor) for a while, but that did not get me anywhere. Have you tried it at the beach (venice) yet? Verizon is a great service and I could get it about anywhere. The places I sometimes did not get service in is the mountains and the Beaches (very spotty there). I hope this helps boosts the signal at those spots.

08-02-2003, 9:18 PM	#15
JamisonBWolsh Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 62 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna your funny. The placebo effect is something that you THINK works and you convince yourself it does. This retractable Antenna is REALITY. Here is a test. Go to the service menu- 0-0000-2(field test)-1 (screen) then hit ok. The RX Power is the signal stregth. The lower the number, the stronger the signal. Take off the stub antenna and you will notice this number to increase. Add the Retractable antenna, the numbers will decrease (not tested yet). On the VX4400 the number decreases. I havent tried it on the 6000 yet, but I will try it when I get it in the mail. You can also get the battery power on this menu. Go down to where it says BATT. A full battery (extended battery) is "4" Volts. A very depleted battery says "0". This is much better calculation to find out how much battery power you have left

08-02-2003, 9:35 PM	#16
Tony E! \/\/ireless /\dvisor Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: City of /\ngels CA. Posts: 10,102 Phone(s): KR/\ZR K1·/\/\OTO i880, BBCURVE 8350i Provider(s): ·T···Mobile·Sprint/Nextel Devices: /\/\otoH12·/\/\otoH690 Thanks: 3 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts Images: 19 My Auctions	steel antenna your funny. thank you, and i wasn't even trying to be. good to see your talking about cell phones again.[img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] i don't disagree with you, once you received your antenna, keep us posted, i'm always open to accessories that will make my phone work better. __________________ (oOO \ (\|\|\|\|)(\|\|\|\|) / OOo) Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional; they are placed there for the enjoyment of those who like to point them out.

08-02-2003, 10:29 PM	#17
GoodmanR Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 3,140 Phone(s): Moto v3 Razr, Blackberry 7230 Provider(s): Cingular (Voice) + T-Mobile (Blackberry) Devices: Crackberry Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna the stub antenna unscrewed does make a difference. when getting 5 bars w/ antenna, i got 1 w/o __________________ New Job = New Phone

08-02-2003, 10:51 PM	#18
Tanakasan Movin' on up! Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna Did an extremely un-scientific test via the service menu. 3 bars /-087 to -090 Rx value with the factory antenna 3 bars/-088 to -093 with retracted steel antenna 3 to 4 bars/-085 to -094 with extended steel antenna 1 bar/-103 to -106 with no antenna at all. Test was over a 30 minute period, going back to main screen and re-entering service mode each time. Each antenna was measured three times and varied somewhat over each test period which lasted around 2 minutes. Seems to have 4 bars only with extended steel antenna. Bars had only a loose relationship to Rx value. Much larger range swing with extended steel as compared to factory. When the -085 was reading, I retracted the antenna. It took a few seconds to register and went to -091, but with 4 bars. Are "bars" and "Rx" measuring different things?

08-03-2003, 2:10 AM	#20
Tanakasan Movin' on up! Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna 3 bars /-087 to -090 Rx value with the factory antenna 3 bars/-088 to -093 with retracted steel antenna 3 to 4 bars/-085 to -094 with extended steel antenna 1 bar/-103 to -106 with no antenna at all. As stated, this was a very casual "what if" kind of test...your mileage may differ. I did not try various positions of the antenna, as my understanding is that vertical should give the best performance. Perhaps being longer and/or skewed influences the results somewhat. Would it be affected by the proximity to a 2.66Ghz CPU? The values would fluctuate over the time period-it was not like it "locked on" to a number. The extended steel antenna would give somewhat higher-although slight-readings most of the time. It was also the only one that I saw 4 bars with on this test. I cannot say what the results would be like in an area where I have 5 full bars or barely 1 bar. As a note, the Nokia 6200 on ATT GSM would get only one bar here (not apples and apples by any means) and would not consistently allow acceptable calls. The -094 with the extended steel was there only once and only for an instant. Most of the time it was in the -087 to -089 range. A couple of questions for the more knowledgeable members: Is a couple point increase/decrease really a big deal? Is the Rx value or "bars" more indicative of real world performance?

08-03-2003, 7:41 AM	#21
larry39110 Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Central Mississippi Posts: 67 Phone(s): Motorola Razor, Samsung SGH-P207 Provider(s): Cingular Devices: MP3, PDA Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Images: 1	steel antenna I bought one of these for my LGVX10. IT absolutely did NOT help the signal. I took it out because when it is retracted, it is longer than the OEM antannae. I'd save my money.

08-03-2003, 12:10 PM	#22
Tony E! \/\/ireless /\dvisor Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: City of /\ngels CA. Posts: 10,102 Phone(s): KR/\ZR K1·/\/\OTO i880, BBCURVE 8350i Provider(s): ·T···Mobile·Sprint/Nextel Devices: /\/\otoH12·/\/\otoH690 Thanks: 3 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts Images: 19 My Auctions	steel antenna ok so we seem to be going back n forth, so is it better with or without? __________________ (oOO \ (\|\|\|\|)(\|\|\|\|) / OOo) Any misspellings or grammatical errors in the above statement are intentional; they are placed there for the enjoyment of those who like to point them out.

08-03-2003, 3:11 PM	#23
JamisonBWolsh Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 62 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna I ordered mine on friday, so when I get it, I will let you know what happens. I will also test it at the beach (no signal) and in the mountains. Personal exp showed me that with a startec, the signal improved (but that was a few years ago). With a 4400, the antenna extended gets a better signal. Here is a point about this retractable antenna: It is meant for those areas where you cannot get a signal or it is very weak. With the antenna, hopefully I can pick up a signal. For voice quality, 1 bar to 5 bars, does not matter because you are on a digital network (analog is another story). The higher the bars though, the longer the battery will last. I will post what my experiences are when I add the antenna. Expectations: From Scientific proof, the reception should improve. But Tanakasan did do a test and you know the results. there have been a few other poeple that also tested and said there is a increase of reception. I will try to get a link for that. My test will be much thorough with more than one location tested. Im hoping, with the retracted antenna, I will be able to pick up a signal at the beach or in the mountains.. Here is 2 quotes I found so far 1. "I have the 7cm retractable antenna from http://www.daydeal.com/ . I've done some side by side comparisons with that antenna extended and the stubby which came with the phone in areas with difficult reception. The verdict. The retractable antenna did, in fact, improve reception. It wasn't a huge improvement, but it was noticeable." ---- email: mch@squirrel.com 2."I bought a metal retractable antenna on ebay and when i put it up it does give me an extra bar which helps out a lot for me because the reception in my house $ucks!!!!! I would recommend it!" No email given. ' I will let you know what my experience is with it.

08-03-2003, 3:51 PM	#24
djlee Fresh Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna I'm sorry but I just gotta say these things don't look nice at all. I wouldn't sacrifice my oem antenna just to get one extra bar. I mean, having even 1 bar will get me service, so what will an extra bar do right? I mean, of course its always better to have better signal, but putting one of those things on my phone just won't outweigh having 1 extra bar of signal. Just my opinion. [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/img]

08-03-2003, 4:17 PM	#25
JamisonBWolsh Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 62 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna Here is a messege to my from Howardforums.com : "jamison, yep, ive had the steel XXL ok antenna for a while now... its very nice... i think the advantage is that you dont have to pull it out to get decent reception... like in my apart i always have at least 3-4 bars now... before i had 1-2 with the regular antenna pulled in it's even better with it pulled out... i always get at least 4 in any postion... just dont touch the antenna as it will kill the bars quickly"

08-04-2003, 7:11 PM	#27
JamisonBWolsh Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 62 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna Bitspam... bit whatever, What is your problem? Why are you so against it? Those other poeple on that other thread was talking about a STUB antenna (another type antenna you can get-smaller than the oem). That has proven not to work as good because the size of the antenna is small. The quotes I gave was from everyone that actually OWNED a retractable antenna. Not some people "speculating" if it works. Please find me a quote from a person that owns a "RETRACTABLE" abtenna that says its useless. I will give you my review of it when I get it. Since you do not even HAVE one, please stop your SPECULATION! In the HOFO, not one person said anything negative about the Retractable antenna. Just you. I wonder why? As for the antenna causing performace issues and health risks: Performance Issues: Better reception and longer battery life!!! You got me on that one! Health risks: Less radiation!!! A longer antenna draws the radiation away from your head!!! you got me there too! *** please post your "source's" or your claims are invalid. I posted mine where it describes that an antenna the length of 7 1/2 inches has the best possible chance of getting the strongest signal on a 800 ghz network (Verizon). Not the 1 INCH that your are implying.

08-04-2003, 8:26 PM	#28
Bitslap47 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna I don't post in HOFO at all, so you are mistaken.... again. As I said, my "Problem" is to be sure everyone is well informed. The quote I supplied in my previous post was a direct reply by "vzwagent007" in HOFO to your question about a "retractable" antenna. He was not replying to any message from you about a "stubby" antenna. Feel free to contact "vzwagent007" and clarify. You can also ask him his experience with his customer base trying these "retractable" antennas. He has the benefit of knowledge from a larger cross section of people than if he had just owned one himself. In fact, it was the first response to your inquisition about a "retractable" antenna posted in that thread on HOFO. After all, the title of the thread is "Retractable Antenna??" Please read this thread below. It is self explanatory. HOFO Thread: Retractable Antenna?? As far as my sources for antenna design, pick up a copy of the amateur radio operators handbook at Radio Shack or an RF design/engineering book at any book store. Again, the physical size of the antenna doesn't matter, it's the effective size determined by the design. You can also open up the manual for your phone, and contact technical/product support and ask them. They did, as another user pointed out, spend a lot of money to design the phone and its antenna. Upon closer inspection of your grammar, I think I understand why this is so difficult to convey.

08-04-2003, 8:40 PM	#29
JamisonBWolsh Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 62 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna Or you can just read: http://denbeste.nu/cdmafaq/antenna.shtml which states 7 1/2 is the best for reception. The thread at HOFO is just opinions. Someone who actually OWNED one said he loved it in a post on that thread. The others are just opinions like yours. Based on speculation. Quote: "You can also open up the manual for your phone, and contact technical/product support and ask them. They did, as another user pointed out, spend a lot of money to design the phone and its antenna." Hmmmm...dont you think the popular opinion of having a small antenna impacted LG's decision to have a stub antenna? I bet it played a major roll. Its Called MARKETING. Its not based on signal quality, but what the mass want. You actually went so far as to make a personal Attack against me? You know what they say about poeple that have to resort to personal attacks in a discussion..

08-04-2003, 8:55 PM	#30
Bitslap47 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 170 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	steel antenna Personal attack? Quote: "Bitspam... bit whatever," I merely made an observation, not a name calling attempt as you did. I assume that link is one of the links the HOFO poster supplied that I have already read. Again, the physical size of the antenna doesn't matter, it's the effective size determined by the design. The effective size of the 1" stub is actually a little longer than 7 1/2 inches. This can be backed up by calling the manufacturer's tech support and asking that an engineer get back to you. Also, at the bottom of the article, notice the author says: "Here's a chart which shows this relationship between signal strength and antenna length in wavelengths" Wavelengths, not inches, not physical size. Feel free to contact the article's author as well. I'm sure popular opinion about the physical size of the antenna has prompted phone manufacturers to invest in an antenna design that performs just as well in a smaller form factor. Let me know the results of your call to LG, your contact with the poster at HOFO to determine his intent, and your contact with the article's author.

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